Mike Rogers LIVE Interview

Brisbane Uh landed Good evening folks and welcome to Alienate on a fine and fiery evening and It is a fire evening tonight because we Have none other than Mike Rogers in the House uh I kind of didn’t know if it was Going to happen because he got canceled Last week Um and I was calling last week as well And Mike had stuff to do Today my son I thought it broke his arm So I was going to cancel the show turns Out he hasn’t he’s just a hypochondriac No he did have a like really big Swelling but he’s cool but without Further Ado enough muffling on let me Take a quick little sip of this I’m quite nervous tonight Let’s bring on Lee Welcome to the show my lad thanks for Inviting me on again I’m very jealous of Your beard Well that’s because you haven’t got one At the minute mate I know he’s coming He’s coming back slowly he’s so itchy Right now is it speak speaking of itchy Itchy Richie You’re muted mate There we still married Still muted hey there we go is he is I Didn’t even do that you did uh thank you For having me here it’s gonna be great

I’m sorry to hear about your son hope He’s okay but uh real quick I broke my Arm in the sixth grade my parents didn’t Think it was broken and some kid pulled In my arm to sit down in class and broke It even more they had to call Child Services on my parents because they Didn’t take me to the hospital when they Said something’s wrong with my arm did You take him to the doctor Oh my word wow wow yeah Anyway enough of broken limbs you didn’t Take him to the doctor yeah no my wife Did I nearly cancel this he got an x-ray and Everything but without further ado He doesn’t have an he doesn’t have a cat A camera because his son stole it that’s What that’s that but that’s what son That’s what kids do kids just take Mike Rogers welcome to alien addict my Friend how do you do I should have been on camera but I can’t Find mine So I’ve got an excuse I can’t find my Camera either [Laughter] It happens yeah you hear your audio is Great Um we finally managed to get in touch From the multiple messages sent back and Forth yeah between my good mate uh Dave Miller uh yeah from the Basin files People go check out the base of files

Dave’s a great guy and uh he’s helped me Out a lot here Um he’s the one that I actually uh asked Me to do your show Yeah that I I asked Dave why he does This and he just said because I believe In you so I mean respect him one nice Bloke Um and I am going to put his Link in the Description people as well yeah but Mike Hey for the first time you saw Um you saw I’m gonna start I’m gonna Start quite deep here You’ve just watched the show literally Probably a couple of hours ago With Steve Pierce right what what did You think to that Well I think a lot of things that One of the worst things one of the Things I want to address here is uh the Stuff that Ryan Gordon has said and you Put a photo up on your page there that Uh a picture of uh Gentry Gentry lookout tower at night When they’ve got the lights on but it’s An aerial view you can tell that it’s Several hundred feet in the air And uh I can tell you right now yeah Okay so you can see it so you can see it For 500 feet in the air if you’re Actually at the site that is not what We’re talking about You can’t see Gentry Tower it is not Visible at all anywhere within say 50

Feet of the ground You know if you’re on the side anywhere On the side even even on the ridge the Highest Ridge right there You can’t see it at night or daytime or Anytime and it’s four miles away almost Four miles away I have to say Mike that so Um It’s got Um Oh why is Scott’s name gone straight on My head my good friend Scott Scott Um from Eric Luke’s he comes on the show Rich what’s Scott’s name Scott Scott Brown Scott Brown Amazing at Photoshop he so this is a I Believe this is a day shot and Scott Brown Put this into Photoshop to light It up to try and get an impression of What it would look like at night so that I don’t think this is a night shot this Is a day shot that Scott Brown has done An amazing Photoshop job on well Regardless uh yeah even if even if it’s Exactly accurate it’s still uh makes my Point You can’t see it in the Gentry Tower is Like 80 feet tall And you can’t see any part of it from From the site not not even if you were Above above the trees by 20 or 30 feet You still couldn’t see Gentry Tower At night or any other time

I remember I remember being on this show When um the the director Guy Brian Brought this sort of theory up and I Think I said to him at the time I’ll I’ll be I’ll be brutally honest I didn’t Particularly enjoy speaking to that guy I didn’t particularly like him Um and the first thing I thought when he Was talking about this was if you guys Are up there working Like day in day out in that environment I’m sure you must come come across these Towers all the time you know I it surely It wouldn’t be a it wouldn’t be a c yeah It wouldn’t be a surprise to you to see Something like that yeah they’re all Across the Mojo and rim Uh because that’s the way they used to Detect fires was off those Towers now They do it by radio radar and I mean by A satellite and whatever else And they still use them I guess in Certain places And there are a number of questions that You were talking to Steve about that I Wanted to I was hoping I would be on the I was hoping at the time when I was Listening that I would be on the show We’ve seen at the time Steve Pierce Well you could have been Well I I didn’t know about it yet Like I said you know Dave was the one That told me about it and we talked About it and I told him sure

When it went from there Steve Pierce uh and and when you were Talking about Gentry Tower there were so Many questions there that I wish I could Have answered right at the time Because uh so much of what Ryan Gordon Has put forward there is just contrary To logic just contrary to reality Just like what I just said about the Photograph that you have there Uh from that position 500 feet or Whatever in the air at night you might Be able to see it they probably enhance The light to where the light is a little Bit brighter but but uh What’s the point I mean I don’t Understand Ryan’s point in uh saying That you can see it 500 feet in the air At night what does that have to do with Anything Because we’ve owned due respect Mike Ryan does believe that’s the UFO because He saw that himself Yeah There’s all kinds of problems wrong with This Theory not just the fact that it Can’t be seen from the actual site Steve was the one that said a couple of Things like The movement and you kept saying Vibrating it wasn’t vibrating that’s the Wrong term he was saying to himself it Was uh moving it swaying back and forth

It was it turned a little bit you know It did a kind of an erratic sort of a Thing as it was winding up And uh Gentry Tower is absolutely solid Another thing is It doesn’t make any noise Everybody there at the at the UFO site Even Travis attest to the same thing That it made a particular noise there’s Nobody can describe it exactly several People describe it it starts out as a Beeping sound and it gets different from There it changes but nobody can explain It But uh Gentry Tower doesn’t make any sound It certainly doesn’t make any UFO type Sound It doesn’t move and another thing Steve Said is it took off how can you explain The fact that it took off Well Steve and John and I don’t know who Else and myself all sought take off Gentry Tower doesn’t go anywhere But you you saw it down the road right When the when Mike took off I mean um I don’t know what I’m saying when they Drove away And then stopped isn’t that where you Guys saw it take off yeah yeah we’re Down the road not quite a quarter of a Mile like close to an eighth of a mile Really a few two or three hundred yards And uh so I stopped the truck because

I was thinking you know what in the door Why are we running away we don’t even Know what we’re running away from you Know these things are going through my Head as I’m driving away from the Society And we left Travis back there It didn’t seem like a very brave thing To do so you know I stopped the truck And the guys in the truck are kind of Confused There some of them are yelling at me you Know why do why am I what am I doing Stopping the truck Uh other people are saying you know Agreeing with it that we should stop the Truck and and we got out of the truck In fact we all got out of the truck Um all of us and uh Uh somewhere along there as we were Getting out of the truck we looked back That direction because it caught our Attention And the the thing whatever it was you Know you’re looking through a an eighth Of a quarter of a mile of pretty heavily Wooded area And all we saw was the light we couldn’t We couldn’t see the actual Thing clearly but you know the shape of It was there And it and we saw the light and we saw It raise up to a certain level and then It streaked away it just started off

Slow and there’s shut away Uh and it’s sort of sort of across but Upwards in other words Like it rose up to something like a Hundred feet in the air and then it that It shot up towards the Northeast At a blinding speed Did you hear any tree branches cracking Or anything like that while it was doing That moving no no I know you’re about 1500 feet away right so 18. when it took off yeah yeah I mean You’re quarter mile away so yeah yeah Not quite an eighth of a mile uh we’ve Never actually measured that part the Only thing we have measured is the Distance from the truck up to where the UFO was where Travis was anyway 93 feet That’s it huh yeah maybe it’s me and Rich being uneducated here but both me And Rich if you looked at our faces when Steve said he saw it fly off I saw your Face you looked very surprised because We’ve not heard that before yeah That’s because people don’t ask all the Questions They’re too eager to assume And I think so you told this to nobody That you you guys saw it fly off no I Have I’ve said that numerous times I’ve probably been on more radio shows Than Travis has or at least as many yeah Did you uh did it did was there like

Static electricity feeling anything like That in the air when you were that close No we were even when we were 93 93 feet Away we didn’t feel anything staticky And there are a number of departures From the movie I mean you guys were both Correct when you said the movie is [ __ ] because the movie is [ __ ] It was a good story but it wasn’t the Right story Had an All-Star cast but what difference Does that make it wasn’t the story one Of the biggest departures in the movie Is that we all went back And and the movie shows me alone going Back in fact it doesn’t show me going Back it just has us talking about it Um we all went back and we and we got Out of the truck and we searched all Over the area before we went to Heber Before we reported it I had you Didn’t I hear that you got upset when You went back because you realized that Travis was gonna you and you those were You were upset because you were happy That he had disappeared and his body Wasn’t yeah well I I had had a kind of a Double A motion there one was because of the The whole thing was just mind-blowing But the other part was because once we Got back and we could see that Travis Wasn’t there after we looked around the Area okay that’s when I actually broke

Down And I did break down Steve’s right about That Um he says I bawled like a baby I think He’s exaggerating there but yeah I cried I went to my knees and I was I was very Emotionally Strut Because Travis wasn’t there which uh Meant to me that he’s still alive Now I I’m going to go a little deep so You know we said we could talk about Anything I’m just going by things I hear And other interviews and things of that Nature when I ask this but um Apparently you and Travis were these Kids who would make up stories about Seeing aliens and UFOs and were known as The abductee kids where did that come From Is that not that’s not true Travis and I Weren’t even together as kids Is that right Ollie my hearing that am I Saying that wrong yes well yeah you’re Saying that wrong I don’t know where you Got it from but you heard it from Somewhere and it’s it’s complete baloney Yeah I’ve heard that several times I Didn’t even know what a UFO was until I Was about 18 or 20 years old and that You guys would tell everybody in the Neighborhood you’re seeing aliens and UFOs I don’t know her that probably came From Ryan Gordon because Ryan Gordon

Just makes up crap he really does He he nice it’s like Phil class you know I’ve dealt with Skeptics my entire the Entire 46 years since this thing Happened and he just makes things up Just like Phil class made things up he Would he would make up stuff and call it Evidence and then and then he would Attack his own evidence as though it Meant something but he made it up you Know it’s not evidence he he creates the I don’t know what you call it the straw Dog or the or there’s a lot of things Logically speaking that you can say About it but it but uh it was basically Just [ __ ] from the beginning Didn’t you send Philip cross Philip Cross Philly might as well be yeah I feel like Class Um a uh Christmas card every year a Religious oh yeah that’s correct that’s Right I mean uh within the guy’s an atheist Exactly within three or four years that Before he died I actually would uh he Would he would call me I never did call Him he would call me he’s always done it That way he always calls me he tries to Catch me off guard or something And he’d been calling me every ever Since 1975. I’ve talked to him a couple Of dozen times on the phone during that Time and

And over the over the uh overall that Period of time we kind of developed a Rapport you know and once he was out of It after the movie was made and all that He kind of took a different attitude About it all together And a couple of times he came very close To admitting to me that he that he Believed it Really I’ve heard that before yeah he Didn’t he didn’t say that he believed it But he came real close because the way We were talking if you could have could Have heard the uh the uh conversations That you’d understand what I’m saying Uh how you can say something but not Really say it it was like that Has it been difficult I mean the if You’ve got an experience which I think Would I mean obviously if it happened to Anyone it’d be like one of the most Monumental experiences of their lives Has it been difficult like dealing with So much negativity in the fact you’ve Had to continually justify this over and Over again and obviously you’ve had Various reasons of why people would Think you were lying about it over the Years Well of course it’s been difficult I Mean any it would be difficult for Anybody Uh but uh one thing Steve said that I Can second and that’s he said that

People have uh reacted negative to this But hadn’t all been negative Uh A lot of it has been Uh reverse of that basically speaking Uh And and it’s kind of like So what if if we would have done Something different it did it happened The way it happened so why second Thinking I mean you know It happened and you deal with what Happened not not what could have Happened or what should have happened or What you wish would have happened too Much of this world goes along the lines Of what people would desire to be true Instead of what is true Mike can I step back just Just a Touch Because you started with you started Wanting to address Uh Ryan Gordon now He did he did put a confession Um Tape out a view that you’ve you’ve said On a few shows now that it was Manipulated I’ve heard a lot of other People say it’s manipulated I I said to You today when I rang you Um when I was in the car I’m not going To say a bad word about Ryan Gordon I I I have no problems with Ryan uh he’s Done nothing to me in fact he’s he’s Been absolutely fine with me and he’s

Helped me do stuff in the past so here I Am he’s real nice to radio hosts I have No problems with him yeah well he Deliberately does that he’s not he’s not Going to burn his Bridges What I want to ask you is So you said he manipulated that tape But you also said you recorded him When you went out with him yeah that’s Right it’s agent to to the site right Have you put I have not heard that Recording Well you haven’t heard it yet because I Haven’t had him do the right thing first I’m waiting for him to do the right Thing And that is to give me an opportunity to Catch him I’m waiting for him to make the big Mistake of saying that it didn’t that I Didn’t record him and that I didn’t say Those things See I I went to the site with him uh Apparently the day after he recorded That telephone conversation with me that Is not what I said And uh when we were at the site the only Reason I went there is because he would Kept pushing me about this about being a Hoax and he wanted to get into it in Detail so I went out there with him and Walked over the entire thing And we looked at everything and by the Time we got down we walked down the

Lower Road and up the side and we looked At all the trees and the various things That happened and we got up to the top There and up there up there basically Where Travis had been standing I told Him I said Ryan There is no way this could be a hoax Because to see he was going at it as Though it was a hoax to me rather than Like me being a hoax me being part of it So he was playing that side of the Street and so I was telling him there’s No way it could be a hoax and I gave him All the reasons why Uh because First of all And you got to separate this from the Gentry Tower thing okay but just on the As on the base of the story the way it Was The tree growth for instance we just Talked about that before we got to the Top of the ridge there And the tree growth is a whole thing by Itself and that’s happened since then I says that’s one thing and then during Then the thing we’ve already talked About here where once we had gone up the Road and left there and and up the road To eighth a quarter of a mile away we Got out of the truck and the thing Lifted up and took off You know If it was a hoax if I’d have been hoaxed

If all of it had been hoaxed we wouldn’t Have seen those things those things Wouldn’t be a part of it So when I look at it from my mind as Steve does with his mind of course Steve Looks at it very differently than I do Anyway but but with those particular Facts you know Steve thinks you’re all Filled by the government right but he Doesn’t have a way in which that was Done so it’s just kind of a general Statement Uh I I get into it a little more Definite than that a little more Fact-based If it had been if we’d been hoaxed it Wouldn’t be anything at all like what Actually happened This thing hit Travis with a beam that That knocked him up and back so hard There’s no way and he could have even Done he couldn’t have even acted the Part It was it would have been impossible Something hit him with such force that Blew him back to where his feet landed 10 feet as by his head landed like 16 17 feet away because he landed flat You know And uh That was so dramatic and so Dynamic that It couldn’t be faked We all saw that It was one part that I did see I didn’t

See the light hitting because I’d turned Away But but the light that hit him I looked back and I saw it hit him and I Saw him being boom back it couldn’t have Happened if it was fake it just couldn’t Happen and that’s it and that’s it was Done right now with today’s technology If you were to try to explain what it Looked like would it I’ll give you an Example did it look like an invisible Cannonball hit him and his body caved Inward or did he get his arms and legs Flail did he Shake I mean what did you See Well you want me to describe the UFO First or him being hit I’d like to know What it looked like when he got hit how Did his body contort or did it was it Like a rag doll well it I can’t demonstrate it here because I Just don’t have my camera I couldn’t couldn’t anyway You know you’ve seen the paintings I’ve Drawn because I’ve done more than one That’s the scene taken you know like you Know a split second after he’s hit And and that his body did did sort of Cave in but not completely it was Forceful enough that just lift him as One whole unit it wasn’t like it hit him On the chest in such a way that it would Cause just his chest to go back and his Arms would go forward

It hit him as though there was a it was An explosion in front of him big enough To throw his entire body back wow and he And he went he went back like I said he Went in the air he went he went up as Well as back and he landed flat on the Ground and and the there’s a little bit Of dust there there it hadn’t rained for Quite some time and even though there Was some pine needles there it was there Was a ground there too and the the dust Rolled around him it was uh I’d say a Very dramatic it was uh Do you think he was pushed back like 20 Miles an hour 10 miles an hour could you Have gauged that or take a guess Because apparently he thinks Travis Thinks he was dead and they picked him Up and repaired him right So yeah that’s one of Travis’s Concepts Uh Give us speed to it It’d be more like uh bang blow back hit The ground Just how fast is that pretty quick I Don’t know it sounds fast like 50 miles An hour or something or 100 who knows But he did stop he stopped when he hit The ground but he kind of bounced so so He hit the ground with still some force Behind him and some backwards for us so He hit and bounced a little wow okay That’s pretty fast And it’s uh

It was something that scared the hell Out of all of us I mean that’s that’s why I turned the Truck back on and left you would think You were next at that point I would Think right yeah I mean at that point I Was wondering why the truck was even off I didn’t wonder it was just it just went Off and I had to turn it back on in Order to leave so it took took a few Seconds to leave from the time he hit The ground oh man We spoke earlier about it being nothing Like the film firing in the sky for Anybody’s in the audience Um and you met you mentioned do you want Me to tell you what the craft looked Like so that you probably yeah I know You’ve said it a hundred times before Oh The film the film Fire in the Sky is not That uh image at all It’s it’s what I painted now the first Painting I did of this was brother Cartoon-like it was deliberately for a For a cover of a paperback book and I Talked to the art director and and I did What he said I should do I would have I would have drawn it you Know I would have painted it more Realistic but they even told me that it Needed to be on the on they told me the Size of the cover and all that stuff and He filled me on what it needed to look Like and not pretty much you know did

That Uh and the next time my all I painted Was the beam and Travis and I didn’t Paint the UFO but I did paint the UFOs Separately Uh so All those pictures put together is what It looked like exactly As close as a human can come to Duplicating something on canvas And uh surely you’ve seen all of those Particular illustrations they’re all Available yeah yeah I’ve seen them Um they’re all in this book And uh Yeah there so uh whatever whatever you See in those paintings that’s that’s What it was without me describing it Vocally here so You saw Travis get shot back You drove off Quite a bit bit down then you you got Out you saw the UFO take off and then You went back We didn’t go back immediately Uh one thing Steve was wrong about he’s Got this idea in his head that we didn’t We didn’t chase a camper down we did not Chase the camper down but I did go out On the rim road because I had to do that To turn around The the road LED in there was so so Narrow That we actually had to dig out places

In order to get through because it had Been closed and we made it just these Spots just wide enough to get through And and cut a few Limbs and whatnot to Make a path down through there because The road was officially closed And so There was no way to turn the truck Around without going out to the rim road Which was just uh A sixteenth of a mile you know 100 100 Yards away we went up to the rim Road Got on the rim Road and I had to go down The rim Road aways and there was a there Was a pickup that had passed there while We were still sitting there we’d gotten Back in the truck and we were looking Out forward and the truck was pointed Towards the rim Road and uh we saw this Vehicle go by I don’t know what it was But uh somebody yelled you know we Needed we need to get some guns we need To chase that that truck down just Because Steve heard that doesn’t mean That that’s what I was doing I was just Simply going out to the main road to Find a place to turn around and so it’s Like what it did went out down the rim Road aways and got a ride spot there and I turned it around and went back That you saw you all saw the The Craft Take off into space yeah that was when I First stopped the truck So I’m going to ask you this Mike

Because I’ve got to ask you this and you Said we can ask anything I’ll answer any Question you made a statement and and Rich if you wouldn’t mind reading the Following on screen sir I Mike Rogers being of sound and Rational mind do hereby give notice that I am no longer to be considered a Witness to Travis Walton’s supposed Abduction of November 5th 75. that’s Exactly right wow why is that if Somebody kept asking me kept assuming That we all saw Travis or get abducted We did not not one of us And I got so tired of being asked that Question or having people assume that But I had to say something in a major Way and so I placed this ad on my Facebook page But you know I think people think that Means the entire event I think they’re Wording it wrong or you know what I mean When they talk to you they’re taking it Wrong they are not yeah they’re taking The words thank you yeah if the word is Supposed supposed abduction But I searched for words to explain that And be exactly proper with it and that Was the best I could come up with His abduction was supposed Right but I think what people when People talk about Travis Walton they go Oh the abduction story so they don’t say Oh the UFO those guys saw they always

Say the Abduction the guy who was Abducted that I think that’s why people Put that they blanket the whole thing Exactly well they shouldn’t do that no I Know that was that was my whole point in Putting that on my page good that’s Smart because I confused a lot of people I mean because people were getting me Angry about it they just wouldn’t leave It alone especially when once I said That I said it on a couple of radio Shows and they just wouldn’t leave it Alone And uh so I I put it in words in a Strong words in a big Square you know With my face on it I’ve been a sound sound mind you know uh You know it’s it’s as uh Technically legal as I could possibly Make it Oh you worded it perfectly You did I mean I would make me a little Confused too I’m like what does he mean What did Travis say to you when you put That out yeah well he went he wasn’t Happy about it but but he knows it’s True In fact Steve knows this true everybody Knows it’s true I mean how could we how Could we possibly say that we saw him Get abducted when we did not No disrespect if I if I was with Lee Rich In in a car and uh I don’t know Lee got

Out one well probably leave him anyway But Lee got out And and me and Rich drove down And we both saw a craft take off And then Rich put out a few years later That he he he wants nothing more to do With the story and any can’t support the Story anymore I would turn around to Rich and say Rich what the [ __ ] you Talking about we both saw the craft take Off yeah hmm So that’s this that’s with this this Here Mike For me does make it makes no sense No it does make sense it makes sense to Me it makes a hundred percent there’s More than just one part of this event I Mean they saw the light hit Travis then They took off they didn’t see him get Taken away So that’s an accident that’s an accurate Statement Meaning was that that we did not see him Get abducted that’s all about but when You put that out Mike In your head Where did you think Travis had gone I Have no idea How would I have an idea To to put something in my mind that I Did not witness would be a falsity That you didn’t think Travis may have Hoaxed it

I didn’t know what to think I never have You know very few people have ever asked Me what I really think I have to make statements like this to Even get people to get the idea that I Have something to say of my own Different from what everybody thinks I Should say Yeah you must know people people just Assume things they assume things they Assume way too much they assume things Wrong they assume things right they Assume things falsely one way or the Other You know if somebody would just asked me What happened I would tell them exactly Like I have here anything you ask me I’ll tell you exactly I’ll give you as Much detail as you want and you said That to me today you I said I said he’s Out respect it’s an event is it is reach Actually the same question is anything Off limits He said no ask what you want Yeah which that I appreciate but the Reason why I asked that question Mike is Because I see so many people [ __ ] Footing around that question and it’s it And it is so confusing to the community That absolutely me being one rich being One and and Lee just loves the film Um It’s It’s to some people it’s quite

Heartbreaking when you think this this Um the best UFO story ever Could be falling to pieces and over the Last few years it it has it’s felt to me Like it’s been falling to pieces All assumption The only people that this is uh breaks Their heart is people who assume Way too much and they they will not Believe what is true they they have made It in their mind something to be a Certain way and they see something that And they read something that’s different From that and they just won’t have it Um They’re going to believe the way they Want to believe period The reality doesn’t make any difference To them Do people want more is that is that the Problem where you have something that Goes on and on well yeah they want more In terms of different or whatever it Doesn’t matter if it’s more or whatever They just want They they want this to be absolutely True and in order for this to be Absolutely true the way they believe it Is for us to have witnesses Travis’s Abduction we did not Now that that may be heartbreaking to Some people but it’s a fact We didn’t witness anything I drove off They they I mean there was something

That happened so scary so so I don’t know how to explain it better Than that I hit the gas I didn’t need to Be told I hit the gas And it took me you know a few seconds Until I stopped the truck to realize What I’d done But I shouldn’t do that that’s why I Stopped the truck And we went back just as soon as we Could And we did we didn’t find him anywhere But personally I would find the story Less believable if you had have just Hung around and watched Yeah yeah it’s you wouldn’t do it if you Saw Um if you saw a bear coming towards you It’s it you would be one of those people That gets the phone out to take a selfie Go to it’s a stupid idea you you move Uh we may all be tough Woods Richmond Okay back then not anymore we’re all too Old two of us are dead probably three of Us but uh This was back then we were all about as Tough as men could be and we’re all in a Job that was a very hard job to do and You would expect people like that to be Emotionally sound you couldn’t shake Them you’re not going to scare him with Anything And uh seeing a bear in the woods didn’t Scare any of us or something like that

Then a ufooted upstairs but when we saw That happen the way it happened it uh it Put fear into all of our our minds I Mean it just devastated All of us there wasn’t one of us that Wasn’t affected like that Well what went through your mind when um When you saw it because I always imagine The Um The there must be like an amazement and Fear whatever of seeing something Um and then did you wonder to yourself Whether was that was this like a It was going to be An Occurrence Something that happens all the time so I’m making I’m not um articulate myself Very well here but I always think when People see a UFO especially in such Close proximity and it’s such a like Paradigm shifting event Did you think that like was this the Like the beginning of War of the Worlds Or something like that no I I know what You’re saying there a lot of people Mature you’re thinking Beyond thinking To wonder that you don’t have time to Wonder that at the spur of the moment uh To put it to put it into a timetable we Come around that corner I didn’t see Anything I stopped the truck because I Did not see anything it was it was too High and there was directly away from The truck the truck was parked in a way

And the UFO was almost directly to the Right side of the truck and above the Above this Ridge It was above the trees tops except for a Couple of very tall trees a little bit Further away It was about 20 25 feet in the air It wasn’t Gentry Tire Gentry Tower 80 Feet up in there it was 20 30 in there Anyway uh when I after I stopped the Truck and put and put the emergency Brake on there was a slight incline There I leaned over Because now it was room now because Ken Peterson was right there in the middle Of the you know in the front seat Travis Had already gotten out so I could I Could kind of lean down and and you know Ken Peterson understood what I was doing So he didn’t like slap him here there What the hell are you doing you know I Had to leaned down basically in his lap To see it And when I did that I saw it for the First time and uh A question went through my mind just a Big blank question what in the hell is This That was my first thought what in the Hell is this and it took my mind a few Seconds to make anything of it And when I did I came to the realization

That it was it was an object that was in The air hovering in the air And it was motionless at that point it Might have been making some minor sounds But nothing loud enough for me to hear Yet And uh Within just a matter of seconds Travis Had walked up to the as close he could Get to it And I was I was kind of my head was cut Away from that my thinking was cut away From from everything at that point to Wonder Why Travis was doing that and what was Going to happen because of him doing That And he yeah he got up there Tori was as Close he could get apparently you got to Understand this whole entire thing took Less than a minute From the from the time I stopped that Truck to the time we took off Was probably somewhere around 40 seconds Altogether Why do you think Travis had the the Feeling to walk towards it Say that again why do you think Travis Had the like the feelings to go and walk Towards it well I’ve explained this on a Couple of shows several Geraldo was one Of them you know Good Morning America I Picked a lot of them I’d say you know That question would come up and I’d say

You know a few weeks before that a bear Ran across the road in front of the Truck Travis got immediately out of the truck You know because I had to stop the truck To keep from hitting the bear Travis got Out of the truck and took off running After it that’s all I say about it but There’s not time there to say more the Fact is is that something we had done on Several occasions before it wasn’t like Like a new thing Travis was very Adventurous He was very brave Him and I together done all kinds of Things that were crazy things in the Thinking of other people we both had Been into karate and boxing we’ve both Been boxing the ring Uh More than one year I mean we did I did It for three years Travis did it for two Years Had several bouts I never lost a fight Uh Travis lost two I think But we both had good records you know And uh that’s just one thing we did Another thing that we did we went we Went uh spearing trout in a stream that Was known for being a place where you Couldn’t catch a fish with a line of Rail and we we spent a day out there and Caught caught some really large trout With it with a spear not not with a not

With a gun or a line or a pole or Anything you know or not in that And to get down into this place where You’d fish required some Cliff climbing Both in and out It was very a very dangerous trip there All together it just all kinds of stuff Like that we we uh We both uh you know took flying lessons And things like that you know Uh Motorcycles uh I got into logging Contests later on and Travis thought About it but but I did that and I just I filled my life full of Adventure and everywhere I could Travis Was the same way we didn’t do the same Things but we were both adventurous People and so the way to explain that The way to answer that question is uh he Went up to that UFO because it was an Opportunity of a lifetime yeah the only Reason I didn’t go up there was because I I had to stop the truck and all that Stuff he was already out and already up There And by the time I saw it I realized it Was a dangerous situation Right about that time I started making Noise and it got a little it started Looking more and more like a crazy thing To do as the seconds went by As the very few seconds went by And so I didn’t I didn’t get out myself

I stayed there and it turns out that it Was a good thing to do Mike so Travis has gone missing and I I’ve heard you say this on other shows Before but Travis’s mum didn’t wasn’t that Concerned Not true You’d have to know what Travis’s mom was You got to understand that in order to Find her that night I mean I knew where She was or where she probably was and She was there as a a cabin called the Gibson cabin which she lived in during The summer time during the summer months Of the year And uh she wouldn’t buy anybody no but She didn’t take anybody with her she was All by herself she was an elderly woman And she lived out there in the woods all By herself For a week at a time before she’d come Back into snowflake to her house there Uh I never I never once ever saw her cry Or even look emotional she was just Almost an unemotional person Uh not completely unemotional but she Was one of these kind of people that uh Yep they’re keeping up keep a chance to Keep your chin up you know don’t show Your your emotions don’t cry Kind of kind of the way a man is Supposed to be right the way Steve would

Like me to portray him with us He gotten upset because me and other People including John he he won’t Acknowledge that fact John said right There on uh Jennifer Stein’s movie the The Travis movie but he says right off The bat the first thing John says is Probably the most upset person there was Steve Pierce [Laughter] Steve’s quite upset about You well not you because you didn’t Write does Steve think you wrote the Book and you you haven’t yeah he Actually said that he said that to me he Said that on that show It well it wasn’t a misquote that’s what He thinks he thinks that I wrote the Book Why He thinks that all those things that are Contrary to what he think considers to Be reality which by the way is not Contrary to reality Travis knew the reality and I helped Travis fill in those things but he Didn’t just me Steve says that Travis Didn’t interview anybody that’s [ __ ] He talked extensively with Ken Ken Ken Ken Peterson to me Uh to uh To John galette even though Steve Doesn’t admit that now Steve wants Reality to be his way and so when

Somebody like John tells him no that’s Not the way it was uh Steve just goes Ahead and thinks that’s the way it was Anyway I don’t know how he does that but but He’s that way He’s a likable guy you know yeah I like Him I like it we talked about it about Steve Earley have you two made up by the Way I don’t have anything against uh Steve He has his he’s the got the problem Against me is what it is The problem he has is he thinks that I Wrote all this stuff about him I’ve Tried to tell him many times man I Didn’t write that and even if I did That’s the way it happened He doesn’t agree with that so he takes It out of me there’s no way be bothered He’s 17 years old I think if I was 17 And my one of my guys had gone missing Yeah I had an alien spacecraft I would Be I mean he’s strong he he still said I I Broke down bald like a baby he doesn’t He didn’t get a response from me out of That because I’m not gonna I’m not gonna Say that I didn’t ball like a baby but I Broke down and cried you know I was very Distraught for two reasons one that Travis was missing it was a dynamic Situation it was an unknown situation we Were facing the unknown there which is a

Thing all by itself but also Travis was Not there when we got back which means He wasn’t fried to a crisp on the spot And so I was relieved besides you know The Dynamics of it So I slightly digressed then when I was Talking about Travis’s mother so oh yeah Well yeah I was trying to explain how She was living in the Woods by herself And that’s pretty much an ex explains The whole situation there Uh Copeland who came there with me to Undersheriff Ken Copeland He says that and he’s true that’s true His mom did not concern but she wouldn’t Uh he wouldn’t she wouldn’t act Concerned what it would have gotten me As if she would have acted concerned Because that wouldn’t be her Call call the search off No I don’t remember her ever doing anything Like that Because this is something again I’ve Heard on many shows oh she said I think She said one time I don’t know why They’re still searching he’s not here No that’s a comment it’s not it’s not an Order to the police to quit searching But did she believe you you fellas that Yeah yes Yeah she believed that because she Believed me

You know the stuff that you heard about Somebody heard about about Having a childhood that believed in the UFOs and I don’t I don’t even remember All of what you said there what was Heard that that we were pranksters or Something as kids Yeah you would you would run around a Lot when you would play and say we we Just saw UFO we saw aliens I don’t know Where that came from but whoever said That is an outright bald-faced liar Because they had to make it up because They couldn’t have based on anything They could have got from anybody Sounds to me like that somebody’s heard Has heard stories of saying oh the um These to play around when they were kids And then they’ve added that on Themselves you know because I mean you Could do that anyway if you wanted to Discredit somebody like name me children That didn’t run around playing some sort Of Make-Believe game There was no such thing and the common Understanding when I was a kid as a UFO It just it didn’t exist the concept of UFOs did not exist when I was a kid Especially in that town Yeah I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that it’s amazing Well when something like that is said it Seems to mean so much the time but who Said it and where’d they get it from

I’d like to know where they got that From make them explain it make them I Want to show I want them to show me Where they got that from maybe it was Ryan Gordon after all this more than Likely was because Ryan has said those Sort of same sort of things to me Okay and I know for a fact that he will Make up anything he can to get attention And and to play this down He’s a skeptic of Skeptics he’s no Different than Phil class he makes Things up to have it his way right to Fit what they want to be real right And and Steve said some other things are About that Gentry Tower thing that that Uh Ryan Gordon just seems to he won’t Give up on it at all I’m the first one that told him that man You can’t even see Gentry Tower from That from that site so the next thing I Heard was oh will it all happened at Gentry Tower it didn’t happen where we Said it happened it all happened in Gentry Tower well we had to go to work There every day we had a certain route That we took it didn’t go by Gentry Tower Gentry Tower would have been way The hell out of the way no that’s I’ll Tell you why they’re bringing that up Because they said that you and Travis You know hoaxed all this and nobody else Knew about it but you guys planned to Take another route home that night which

Brought you by the towers where you Could see them better And that’s why they went that way and Nobody else would notice because they’re All tired from working they’re all you Know wanting to get home so that’s what Was said that’s why why don’t we just Make it any crazy thing they want to Make up because that’s what he did there Just any crazy thing he wants to make up That’s it I mean Jeffrey if we would Have seen Gentry Tower would have seen a Tower 80 feet in the air we would have Seen this the staircase leading up to it Okay Do UFOs have these big metal staircases Going you know switch back and forth Back and forth and back and forth going All the way up to the bottom of it they Do now well this one does now right Did they have a big uh Utility Billing At the bottom of it where they held the Generator and all that stuff with a Great big eight foot tall fence all the Way around it claimed chain link a fence Though you couldn’t possibly miss it Because it’s the most obvious thing in In your site when you see Gentry Tower You would have to look past all that to See this lighted thing up there which by The way is square the UFO had it was Round the corners were around it had a Particular shape to it and it wasn’t Anything like that

And if you’re looking up at it you can’t See it You only see that you only see that Shape that that squarry shape that’s Lighted if you’re quite a ways away from It if you’re at the bottom of that Looking up you don’t see that you don’t See the light apart even at night even At night you can see that the edge of The windows but you’re not going to see The a UFO thing But if you’re according to what I heard There’s a little Hill and you’re where Where you guys parked the truck there’s A little Hill that goes up so oh really And they wouldn’t be able to see Gentry Tower from the position that the truck Was parked in right and that what he Said and that’s all that’s four miles Away oh gee no right what yeah Gentry Tower is four miles away from the UFO Site Oh okay I got you now okay and a whole Different road goes over to it from Where we went in and out of the job oh Yeah there was there was two different Roads we took into the job one was on The on the West Side uh that led up to The rim Road and the other was on the on The east side of the the site okay you Know both of them are like a mile or so Away from the actual site but there were Two two routes that went up there and Neither one of them were anywhere near

Gentry Yeah Gentry Tower is four miles away Very Vivid Tower very if you go up They’re close to it it’s very Vivid you Would see all that there’s no way in the World that it could have been taken Mistaken by anybody not even hoaxed by Anybody as as the UFO That that’s just a very poor concept put Forward by Ryan Gordon Don’t leave at anything didn’t Ollie Didn’t Ryan give you pictures of where It looks like from the distance from Where the truck was supposedly parked to Where Gentry Towers I I think I had them Before yeah I saw some that he drew But it actually I’d have to draw it or Fix the photo somehow to make it appear That way yeah right the drawing doesn’t Go to the go to the site and try to see If there’s any position you can get into Where you can get a UFO there that you Could you that you can separate the the Tower itself from it well here’s the Thing here’s the thing Mike I mean you Said about Going on with maybe we wanted to go and We Stave Have you ever thought about going on With Ryan just to call him out on what He said about you because I was supposed To go on with Ryan one time but he Decided he was going to go on after me Which would give him the the last say

And that’s what he did okay so I’m not Saying this show because this is all About you but down the line would you Maybe Steve Bring in uh Travis if you want Um please Travis said I’m gonna even Speak to the guy and I and I told Ryan Gordon the last time that he called me I Told him to get the hell out of my life I don’t even talk to you anymore What are you saying Ryan Gordon There’s no way in the world I would I Would take part in a show that would Actually be a formal Two two guys maybe in opposition but They’ll talk to each other Ryan Gordon Is beyond that there’s no talking Rationality to him Because he doesn’t know how he doesn’t Know what rational is he’s got some Crazy ideas that appeal to people who Don’t want to believe in this and that’s The only people that appeals to Anybody in their rational mind would Look at that Tower and say there’s no Way in the world that could be taken Mistaken for what we saw that night Wrong shape the wrong color the tower Doesn’t make noise especially that noise It doesn’t zap people and blow them back You know that far away And then then it doesn’t take off Ali um if you’ve got a picture there’s a

Couple of people asking in the chat here If you you can put one of the paintings Up that uh Mike Drew of the Um of the UFO if you’ve got one handy Because I think that would be some good Context Anything at once actually Mike could you Send me that on my Facebook Yeah yeah cool um what is your Facebook Address I I can’t say that on here like okay I messaged you earlier we’ve been Speaking yeah Um but well I won’t call anybody uh Ollie Smith or anything like that okay That’s my grandma’s name Mike moonlits just uh kindly did A 333 I Think he knows my number uh thank you Very much Um but did did do you know who Lou is Lou Alexander why are you getting those Pictures for me No uh who See you’re not into ufology are you just You just you just no I’m not chilled now No I’m not yeah there’s only one thing I’ve done in ufology in the last few 20 Years or so and that’s the Phoenix Lights Right Phoenix Lights were a hoax yeah He’s he’s well really okay that’s a good Conversation that’s true what do you Mean the 10 o’clock or the 8 15 time Uh the the first one oh the first one

That’s the first event yeah that well There was two the one where the the real UFO came over and then at 10 o’clock They dropped the flares from the Maryland gun area yeah well the second Event was flares yeah proven in my mind Has been proven so that’s the first Event the first event was it was uh a Large thing that I am convinced now was More than likely the government uh Creation could have been it was the Third of a mile in in diameter but that Could be created yeah especially with Government money me and Lee are working On something on that because tonight I Found some information I believe that They did that to find out where the Public thinking was because they spend Millions of dollars on that for in all Kinds of ways to find out what the Public thinking is For actual reasons But defy something that you know over a City as big as Phoenix I lived there at The time too so I know but uh I think It’s a risky thing to do what if it you Know fell out of the sky for some reason No it was uh my belief is that it was Created and it was uh held in the air by Lighter than air gas And it had that that very large shape to It all put together with with plastic And wire very light material It was suspended by gas but it had a way

It had a way of fly it wasn’t flown There was no pilot or nothing there was No engines it was actually carried on The wind and and the proof I have is That the the the object as large as it Was was actually carried on the on the Wind all the way from up North all the Way down across Phoenix and where it Disappeared on down on the uh Southeastern corner of Arizona because That’s the actual track of the wind and The and the object the speed of the Object actually matches the speed of the Wind at that altitude And we’re not talking about on the Ground people who thought it was just Above their house they were just at the Same old uh misconception that everybody Has about that sort of thing uh that Something that large Look to be not moving they thought it Was hovering It would look that way but it was Actually moving over 70 miles an hour And some sometimes close to 90 miles an Hour because the the wind you see uh The wind that that thing was carried in Was actually in the in the lower uh What you might what you might call Jet Stream Okay The jet stream winds go go up into 400 Miles per hour Where this thing was was down the lower

Area where the jet stream was Approximately 70 to 90 miles per hour And that thing went all the way from Where it where it was up north down Across it disappeared around uh past the Ground And some people said oh I went all the Way down to whatever that Air Force Base Is in Tucson it never was seen past Across the ground And then the area that where it was seen From uh Prescott just just north of Prescott down to Casa ground And you put that into the formula the Wind the speed of the wind and Everything and then it’s a match and Also the precise direction of the wind You know the uh That’s the weird one yeah yeah Peter Davenport did a UFO map and they thought It was like four or five or a dozen Different objects but it was just one Object was just everybody was seeing one Objects and thinking it was they all had Different different descriptions so Peter Davenport decided it was a like The three different designs of Triangular craft Just you know just why it was just one One craft and where did all these other Crap go no why wasn’t there more than One object seen at one time now there’s Apparently sit over 60 different craft They’re talking about I was there when

They talked about I couldn’t believe They were talking about it well I only Saw one and I don’t know anybody there Were some more than one how where the Hell did all these others come from They’re all seeing the same thing and Just deciding it was it was all Something different because everybody no Mine had these many lights oh well mine Had this many lights well The lights depended on where you were And whether or not they were invisible At your particular point of view you Know And as much as it was the the lights Were not visible to everybody at the Same time There were seven lights total never more Than seven The only time there’s more than seven is The is the second event Um Yeah the first event object was seven Lights or less Always but I interviewed over a hundred Witnesses to this event and I never Heard anybody say something I’ll tell You why something that it was like the Wind because many people about 20 Percent said they saw the craft with its Wings what really wide out like opened Up and then all of a sudden the wings Came in closer together and then it shot Across like two or two to five miles in

An instant and then stopped and that Story’s Been Told At least 30 to 40 times by something you Can you can get all of that just simply By seeing something that size At night I get I don’t you know I didn’t See it so I can’t I can’t there’s a lot There’s a lot of natural phenomena in This But also uh Kurt Russell was a pilot he Saw the lights at 8 15. yeah yeah but he Didn’t see 20. no you didn’t see 70 I Mean he saw one yeah yeah right it was a Group of Lights I think he said and and The elevation what was the elevation Geez I don’t remember 1500 feet maybe Right it was lower that’s not that’s not 15 feet above somebody’s roof is it the Hell no it isn’t Mike could you send me Those pictures on the on the Facebook And why you do I just want to go back to This question that Jen asked earlier About Um If you fake oh God you’ve got no glory She’ll read it well if you fake an Abduction you will not agree to such Force that you might Bounce from the Force that’s life-threatening Is loaded I don’t I don’t answer a lot Of questions Let me let me simplify that um Such for it we not agree with such Force Well why wouldn’t I agree with what I

Saw I mean what you see is what you see I think what she means is Travis Wouldn’t agree to to have done whatever He did for all those guys to witness I I Think I’m getting that from that Question yeah to put himself in a Life-threatening charge like that yeah But the reason why I wanted to bring That can agree to us what happened He doesn’t think that he was in a Life-threatening situation he didn’t Have time to think that he had time to Wonder about it but he didn’t see the Being hit him so he has no idea what What to think of that oh I know what I Wanted to ask you too uh when Travis got Out and walked up to it when he was at How long did it take for the light from The UFO to hit him how long was he Standing there 10 seconds 10 seconds at tops wow that’s A long time I think that the whole thing The max would be like 40 seconds oh by The time from the time I stopped the Truck to the time I took off in the Truck would have been about Best I can figure around 40 seconds I said before it was less than a minute Yeah 40 seconds is more exact That’s another reason why it’s bring That back up Um Mike is because Ryan did say on Eric Luke’s show a few times that none of you Saw the beam you Travis got out the car

You drove off I’m not sure You understand why I’m bringing that up Though because that was said well right Uh he hadn’t talked to everybody Two of us are dead Yes in fact uh Ken Peterson is likely dead too Nobody’s been made any contact with him For the last year and a half or so I I used I used to make contact with him On on you know email But that that quit uh about eight months Ago there was no more room he’s the kind Of a person that uh he doesn’t he Wouldn’t talk about About to die or anything like that he Just if he died then if that’d be it no More from anybody he’s got four sons That live in Tucson And they’re in the drywall business and I haven’t been able to locate them yet So they might they might have changed Their numbers and not want that to be Talked about they don’t they want maybe They want to Shield him from this UFO Stuff Steve well on the other hand was very Religious about it he had a whole Religious concept about it all We should not not Steve Ken Peterson was Very religious about it Steve’s Religious as well yeah yeah that’s what He says right but Ken Peterson Definitely was religious I mean we’ve

Talked about it a lot Actually uh Ken Peters and I were Lifetime friends He’s one of these people you see Travis Didn’t live in Snowflake to kick him out With me when I was three or four years Old and I was a kid Ken Peterson was we Lived in Winslow not snowflake my dad And I my dad and mom moved there with With me and and uh had all my other Brothers and sisters after that But uh when I was four we went to Winslow and I was there until I was in High school before I moved back to Snowflake during that time Ken Peterson And I were best friends And uh so Ken and I had an awful lot to Do with lifetime friends like I said our Lives were Many many times I mean you know all Those years and since then Once I came back to snowflake he later On came back because he all his family Was from Snowflake And he him and I were very close Where do you stand with thinking well if Because I are you religious man me yeah I’m a spiritual person but I’m not Nowhere near religious It so do you use a moment What’s that I was a Mormon And one thing the only thing I hold Today of the Mormon religion is the way Of living

I Believe In Living Clean I don’t Believe in adultery or anything like That I I believe in keeping I I want to know that my children are All mine And uh it’s a plus and I Believe In Living Clean period just everything I Don’t drink I don’t smoke I never have Um have you given any thought um To the to what you saw when it comes to Like some sort of spiritual experience But a lot and I do have some thoughts on That line but um they’re they’re quite Deep And they’re basically unexplainable I’d love to hear them yeah well you got A month or two I think Lee’s asking if do you think They’re aliens Uh I’m kind of like Steve is I’m not sure there is an idiots if if There are they might be government you Know I don’t know because I haven’t seen Any aliens I haven’t seen anything it’s just it’s Like I hadn’t I didn’t see Travis Abducted none of us did and none of us Have seen any aliens I don’t know if Anybody that has seen any aliens You know Travis may have see that’s the Thing right there I am not saying Travis Was not abducted I’m not saying that he Didn’t say every see everything that he Says he saw

It could have could have been that way I’m just saying I didn’t see it that’s All I’m saying And that that bends people over I mean It just messes people’s heads real bad And I don’t know why because it’s a Simple statement it might be very very Formal-like but it’s the simple Statement Well I’m sure I’m sorry no go ahead I Was just going to say I’m sure you’ve Been asked this question before but I Mean I haven’t had the opportunity to Ask it Um when you finally caught up with Travis when he came back and he Explained to you what happened to him What how did you feel about it you know Is it what what was going through your Mind when he was explaining this Experiences funny they said that because It was two days before Travis was back That I actually saw him and when I did He wasn’t very talkative And I wasn’t there all that long to talk To him anyway I was there for like an Hour and a half and one time we went out On the sidewalk we’re walking down the Road and just talking about things but We did he wanted to stay away from the Abduction I would ask him questions About it but I didn’t ask some real hard Questions or anything because he didn’t Seem to be in a position to want to

Answer that sort of thing and so we just Talked about normal stuff it was Actually later on He when he actually finally came up to The mountain he rented an apartment Right right next to my house Almost connected to my house but it was Different and uh When we started talking about writing a Book I started pushing him on it I was the One that pushed him up about the book And also about doing the paintings and All that I was all my idea to begin with Uh it might have been his head but I’m The one that pushed it and we started Talking about it a lot during that time That I first heard about everything Up until then I hadn’t really heard what Happened to him And Sheriff Gillespie went down to Phoenix like the day before I was there And talked to him and Sheriff Gillespie Got it all messed messed up And because of that he doesn’t doesn’t Believe that Travis was telling the Truth because he got things all crossed Around in his mind First time Travis told me about it it All jived But not none of it didn’t make sense People make so much of things on the Basis of what they preconceive Preconception bias is everything to

People because they just do it whether It’s right or not You’ve got a lot of work into that book What’s up you put a lot of work into the Book What book Travis’s yeah illustrations And what have you Yeah And of course I I did my part and Explained to him to what I what happened During the time he was gone Maybe that’s why Steve blamed you for it I I think Travis himself said something About me being very involved with him And figuring out what happened during The time he was gone uh in fact I even I Even told Steve one time that I gave Travis several pages one time I wrote Several pages about it uh some facts you Know during that time they gave him Something to go on but I did not write The book it was uh I don’t know I don’t Know how many pages it was it was Handwritten I didn’t even have a Typewriter And that was uh I I wouldn’t blame you if you did write A book to be perfectly honest the uh I Wouldn’t I wouldn’t blame you’d be if You’re involved in the writing of the Book if I was to leave my house and see A [ __ ] dinosaur you can be damn sure Now you can be damn sure next month Lee Stevens met a [ __ ] dinosaur would be

On the bookshelf It’s a great title I heard you don’t get royalties from That book Mike Hell no that’s one of my biggest Problems with Travis uh We’ve we’ve had Gone along around and around about that Uh I think Steve made some reference to How how I’m one of the ones that makes Money up but no no I don’t I Travis Makes money out food I have I don’t make Anything Steve got paid for his Interview from you I guess I didn’t pay Him yeah I guess Dave paid him but but Uh I didn’t give him any money And you’re not giving me any money There’s a thing right there when when it So I I I’ll be honest with you Mike A few months ago maybe a year a year and A bit ago I was all ready to accept this As being a hoax but then I asked myself You guys are making nothing off this The the Walton case right now well Travis is making all the money I I don’t Know what he makes off but apparently Apparently it’s quite a lot uh Why why would Why would you still stick up for the Story after all these years If it was a hoax Well I wouldn’t What I’m sticking up for is the truth

Actually Ryan Gordon offered me twenty Five thousand dollars if I would would Say that all the stuff that he’s saying Is true basically that’s a hoax And and he came up with this uh supposed Recording yeah he recorded me on the Phone he didn’t tell me he was doing it And then when I heard it uh I’m thinking You know this is crap he’s done Something to that tape because I did not Say that I have never once I mean why in The hell would I suddenly after 46 years Tell Ryan Gordon that was a hoax for the First time the first person that ever I Mean there have been Skeptics on my ass For 46 years why would Ryan Gordon be The special person to hear this But he offered me twenty five thousand Dollars if I would go along with it I Told him hell no So he offered you a bribe together he Offered me twenty five thousand dollars And I have it in writing I have an email from him to that fact Well if you want to make money off it Out of it I I would imagine a good time To have done it if you wanted to come Out and say that it was a hoax would Have been round when Travis was on Joe Rogan you know considering that this Story was like the the biggest it’s been For x amount of years Travis went on a Show which is essentially like going on Every Prime Time television show in

Every country in the world at the same Time yeah Um that would be a time I would I would Have thought if you were going to come Out and say anything like that it would Be the time to do it Um did you watch the interview he did With Joe Rogan Uh I saw part of it uh I didn’t I didn’t have the time at the Time to actually listen to the whole Thing but I saw part of it Did you find it bizarre that all these Years it was so like there was such a Spotlight putting the story again Travis has never said anything about the Case that I that I disagreed with Uh I don’t agree disagree with him Saying that it was abducted I’m just Saying I didn’t see it And people get that all messed up in Their heads I think it’s because they want they want To have to think that you saw a beam hit Him and him slowly get levitated off the Floor into a craft that’s what people Want that’s exactly what they want yeah Obviously that’s what they want but that Isn’t what happened And if I was to say something like that If I was to even go along with it Somebody would certainly pop up and say Ah You’re a liar and they’d be right

Mm-hmm I’m telling the truth period even though It’s contrary to my good do you think People don’t see that But I what I that thing I said I’m Michael H Rogers being of sound mind you Know That is contrary to what would be what You would consider to be good for me I said it because it’s the truth You’re just a matter of of the fact that It was true yeah but people don’t read They just look at the pictures it seems They nobody looks at the details the Fine details they go with they go with Something and they get uh triggered by It and they can’t think straight for Some reason If I had one thing to say about ufology Even though I’m not into it more than The Phoenix Lights case And that would be that You have Believers and you have Skeptics And that’s all there is Believers are going to be Believers and Skeptics are going to be Skeptics and Nothing you can do can change any of Them you can change them a little bit But it usually just doesn’t stay A person a person can be a believer and Then they hear something they say oh Well maybe this is a hoax but they don’t Believe it’s actually a hoax they just Think maybe it’s a hoax

And they’d like to hear something Different about it so they keep Listening Believers are believers and Skeptics are Skeptics I’ve never met a skeptic yet That became a believer I’ve heard people say that but I’ve Never seen it Why do you think Philly class was on the The clasp of Turning then before he passed I think he’s the friendship I think he Knew he was going to die soon and I Think he knew it was the truth The fact that Phil class made up a whole Lot of crap about this case he knew the Truth of it He he more than anybody had dug into This case deeply I mean right to the bottom And he couldn’t find a thing wrong with It that’s why he started making up stuff And he literally made things up And uh I think later on in life he realized That Well he stayed with it because he had Signed too many contracts that he Wouldn’t have been a drug but he didn’t But uh you know That’s what it seemed to me like he was Just he was just seeing that it was Definitely for real he knew it was for Real because he’d he’d been with an

Organization that found it to be real And uh in all this time 46 years nobody Has ever put this thing down And I’ll guarantee you right now Ryan Gordon is far from putting this case Down if there’s anybody believes this is A hoax it’s because they believe because That’s what they wanted to believe to Start with If they wanted to believe it happened For real to start with then that’s what They believe now I can tell you now mate You’ve got a panel right here right now That want this to be 100 real yeah you know I can tell that And he Mike Mike sounds like he’s Telling the truth where I hear other People don’t sound this truthful and I Know Scott Brown in the chat room’s been Calling you a liar Mike is guy and Scott Brown who’s friends with Ryan Gordon Says you’re a liar s the whole time and Uh I asked him if he can uh you know Tell me what what you’re lying about let Me ask a question for you but I haven’t Heard back yet but I think you sound Truthful and I and I don’t know 100 but You sound more truthful than even Travis Sometimes I mean we can’t look him in The eyes Rich No hey that’s why my camera I don’t have My camera not something gonna say Mike The truth is in the eyes In the face hey hey mate from the love

Of Jennifer here and he’s a very good Question actually Do you actually believe in Extraterrestrials me yeah Well that’s another ques I’ve already Answered that question and I no I I Don’t believe and I don’t disbelieve It’s it’s another one of those things That is unanswerable I’ve not seen Anything personally myself I can tell you this they’re in 70 Different species of aliens out there All warring among themselves or which One of them is going to take over Earth If that’s a bunch of crap entirely and I’m just saying that logically because I Don’t know but just logically speaking Why in the world would there be 70 Species especially the kind of aliens That these people think are out there If aliens exist if aliens exists which They must exist they’re not going to be Anything like what people describe them To be The first thing we do is uh is humanize Them anyway that’s what people do that’s Right we made them bipedal we give them Emotions be it like benevolent or Benevolent malevolent Um who knows I mean personally I’m not I’m not massively convinced that we’re Being visited by aliens from other Planets I think there’s something weird I think there’s something weird in the

World but when you look back in history Like photographs of you know Renaissance Paintings where it looks like these These things are in the sky I feel if we Were being visited from another planet And it wasn’t something like a bit Crazier than that we’d know it it would Be we’d still be seeing these things all The time and be At least be open to it because it would Be something that had been happening Like we understand when we see birds in The sky and we understand we see planes In the sky now because we see them all The time so if this had been something That was going on we would be more used To it Pull along those lines well it’s not Really along those lines but I can tell You that since 1975 I’ve had had two Periods of my life when when some things Something just as bizarre as happened 1975 has happened to me And one of those was when I was logging Up on the North above the north rim of The Grand Canyon And that’s the whole thing by itself but That was a spear that came over and and Something that you can relate to would Be in Southern England crop circles I’ll Tell you a quick story about it I had Been going to England because I started I started studying the Phoenix Lights And I had gone to England as a part of

You know promoting Fire in the Sky But after that I went back to England Because I wanted to find out more about Crop circles in the process I got with these people who were who Called themselves the circle makers And this guy named John luthgren uh was Head of that and uh I would watch them make crop circles at Night and even during the daytime for TV Things and and they were doing it Because not just for an artistic Expression but they were doing it Because they can make money at it money Money very often is the reason behind Everything like that anyway uh when I Was there in 1976 I decided that I was Going to try to lay out a crop circle For my for my on my own and see what I Could do with it And I Went out late one night after one O’clock and I had everything ready I Knew the process because I’d watch these Guys doing it I hope a lot of times I Watched several big crop circles being Made And uh So I was out there and I I went under a Fence To go into this field that I had picked Out And when I looked up I saw an orb what They call an orb okay

And it was it was green it was it was Jumping around over the field And I happened to have in my pocket a Pair of UV sunglasses but they were very Strong you know they’re they’re about as Strong as you get and I put them on and And for the first time I could see the Inside some workings inside the orb it Was It was kind of blurry but I could I Could see structure in there And the the orb was going going around And it made a crop circle in less than a Minute while I was watching If you can imagine that happening And that was as big a mind blowers when I saw Travis get hit by that beam And the uh oddly enough Um anyone wants to listen to more of This story it was I when on the podcast I did last night with Ali which will be Out on Wednesday almost the Audio I Talked about the the time I saw Something strange in the sky and I saw a Green orb Um it was about seven seven or eight Second sighting going let me see it Through the sky I haven’t got a picture Come on the uh I did a painting of the Screen or by the way Ollie that I can Send you as well yeah so Mike if you Could send them across Um I want to see these yeah the great Paintings I should have at least because

Because I’m working today I’ve not had a Chance to put them up in the thing and I Should have done that Um oh God don’t know Rich go I was Looking for the photo the the paintings Myself and I came across a guy named Mark Rogers Who’s does alien ah and it’s amazing What he can do I I didn’t know if you Ever heard of that guy but man alive No never heard of him certainly never Met him or talked to him so he’s the Thing I asked Mike I asked you a few Hours before the show I rang you on the Way home And I said is there anything you want to Promote for the show because I like to Do that for people and you just said no I’m not bothered you just said there’s My mate that’s got he owns all the Paintings Because you sold in two majors ago and People can find them You know what are you talking about I Mean you lost me here those paintings The six painters yeah the six painters I Asked if you wanted to promote yourself And you said no there are 10 of them What I’m saying about promoted I go Ahead and they’re for sale again they Don’t I don’t own them anymore I sold Them all to this guy and he wants to Sell them and we’ve sold several okay And he’s paid me for for my percentage

Of that that’s all I’m promoting is the Fact that they’re trying he’s trying to Sell all of these paintings and there’s There’s six left and uh And they’re the people the people that Have bought them so far want to buy want To own them for because they feel that They’re a part of History I would love One yeah yeah well no what I’m saying There Mike is I was very surprised Because normally people just say yeah I Get I’ll give you the links to this that And the other but you don’t you didn’t Do that and and I I think that’s That speaks volumes about your character You know they you you’ve come on a show For nothing yeah you’re telling your Story you’ve got well Dave told me he’d Give me 50 bucks but I haven’t seen it Yet Hey you know I I really did like Steve Pierce Oh I say Dave or Steve no no you said Dave Said he’d give you issues but I’m saying They’ve paid Steve but I I do I do Actually like Steve he’s a character Yeah Well the only thing I have against Steve Is the fact that he’s got stuff against Me Um other than that it’d be fine When I do talk to him uh If he if he Accused me of something which he seems

To do every single time naturally I’m Going to counter it and he doesn’t like That I’m not agree with him that he’s right You know That’s what I have against Steve Otherwise Steve is a likable guy He’s not too well educated but he’s a Likable guy you know Well I mean He’s a religious man You you’ve Dabbled in in religion and and I’m Asking you about what you think this Could be Jen’s kindly done another Super Chat uh Asking them what do you think balanced Your friend What’s that say in into b b into uh then What do you think about your friend yeah I think she needs to figure out how to Actually write a sentence there But what sentence is not structured Properly because sometimes when you type In on the phone probably typing on the Phone I do the same I’m dyslexic I can’t Type in the sentence What do you think about what do you Think it was do you think it was aliens She said bounced off what does she mean By that I I think she means what do you Think sent him flying I think you know It’s what what took uh what was it yeah It was energy other than that I can’t

Tell you it could have been electricity It could have been something else I have No idea I can tell you what it looked Like because I saw that Did it have like did it have structure Or was it as just was it like a Spotlight No it had structure and also had Force Yeah It it had a feeling of force you know That you could actually feel like a Like a shock wave Yeah yeah like it’s like if you if you Slam the door in your house you feel the Pressure change that sort of thing yeah Yeah not only did the beam hit Travis But but it kind of Gave a Shockwave like I could feel that Okay Um what I find interesting as well is The fact that you you said how short the The whole thing was because usually when Uh people are talking about things like This it’s you always get hit with Um oh it was I felt like it was in a Dream state or uh time seemed to melt Away and disappear But the way you’re explaining it is it’s It’s something that’s Completely unnatural to what you’re used To seeing but it doesn’t sound like You’re explaining something then that if If you were stood next to a truck or a House and explaining being there it

Feels like it was a completely Lucid Experience Well we’ve explained it as being a nuts And bolts type thing before it’s just That tonight nobody really asked that Didn’t come off that way yeah even John Will tell you you know this thing was Was solid and it was beautiful And I’ve explained it the same way if Anybody watched that movie Jennifer Stein y’all the alien Travis the Travis Movie Both of us say that on there at uh it Was beautiful and we said it on other Shows too the one that Steve said was The most accurate so far was that was That uh Paranormal paranormal whatever Paranormal now or something like that Yeah that that particular episode which Is an hour and a half long is probably The most accurate thing that’s ever been Done Uh the movie was just complete nonsense It just had no accuracy to it at all Really it was as accurate to the extent There was a movie about aliens and Somebody getting abducted and that’s About it Laughs Mike but there was nuts and bolts to us That’s the way we all saw it it was Factual These questions quite fit in with what

We’re talking about right now do you Know who popular is yes So he he came out what was it in the 1980s With this cup he copied my design He copied Your Design well my my Particular drawing was was out long Before he came out with that And what he came out with looks almost Exactly like like what I drew Mike You’re gonna have to send me a file You’re gonna send me it now Yeah well I’ll send you just about Anything you want me to Well no if you say if you send that now On my Facebook so that I can bring it up On the screen Um your artwork for right now Yeah yeah or or if you could tell Rich Or Lee where to find it because I I’m Not gonna be able to do it while I’m Doing the show but I can’t do it right now for several Reasons but uh no ways that’s fine but Where where can we find it so we can Bring it up on screen Well you can find a lot of a lot of my Stuff on on my uh Facebook page If you’re there or you can scroll down a Ways and find most of it What isn’t there well I think it’s all There if you if you scroll down far Enough Do you mind is looking at that no

And your Facebook page is your name Well it’s it’s Mike Heston Dash Rogers And they’re reading for that is because I used to have a Facebook Facebook Account that was stolen from me by a Hacker a very clever guy that got me to Devote some stuff that I didn’t believe I was divulging at the time He took my account and I haven’t been Able to get it back since that was Several months ago but whatever’s on There because all my illustrations are On their smaller even even the stuff I Did about the Phoenix Lights and uh Stuff I did from Southern England All that is on there so tell us where to Tell us where to click mine this is Beautiful work I love like that looks Like a photograph yeah well people said It in fact there’s a story behind that I was uh doing a book signing with Travis and Flagstaff here Oh it’s been years ago but I went to a Place in Allegra print shop to to get a Blow up of this painting okay Because we’re going to do that and Another one for this book signing the Book Sign was going to take several days But uh anyway while I was down there at The counter a guy walked up to me and he Says oh that’s that’s right out of the Movie that’s the prime out of the movie Fire in the Sky and I said really I says I said you know I told him what was I

Was doing it for and everything he says You know I know one of those guys and I Says really who do you know he says Mike Rogers You know I’m honestly what kind of a guy Is he said oh he’s a cool guy yeah do All kinds of stuff together I didn’t Know this guy from I don’t know yeah but He was you know that’s what’s comment About the uh the picture there Uh it’s probably one of the most Realistic paintings I’ve done But uh Several of them are man pretty good man That looks better than I remembered so This is what we’re talking about that’s The original painting that I did for the First uh that’s the first painting I did Of this uh whole series a series of ten I did all together It’s got a little bit of an art uh Cartoonish look to it but it was a Perfect for the cover of the book the First book Mike you left out the Gentry Tower oh god well it would have been Directly past this somewhere but I just Left it out I don’t know why Now the way you depicted the UFO here Uh I that is not even close to what they Showed in the movie no not even close And like I say this car cartoonish Because uh the dimensions here are all Too small Travis my if you take Travis And say he’s the right size like six

Feet tall All the rest of it would have been at Least twice that big The UFO the beam and the whole thing and The beam had a center to it too it Wasn’t just a a beam like a thing from a Spotlight it had a it had a center to it You know it was smaller than that than That like it was like a pinpoint light In the center well it was like a line Yeah yeah like a line yeah Wow but it did explode like that but I’ve done two paintings of that where The light is exploding in front of him And it lifted him up and threw him back Just like it shows there And no sound No sound well that yeah there was sound There or a lot of sound there yeah oh What kind I don’t know if I heard you Say it when we first looked at it when I First looked at it I couldn’t hear Anything but As the seconds went by it started making Noise it became more and more audible it Got to the point to where I was feeling The vibration through my because I was Holding the steering wheel with one hand And uh it was vibrating the other guys Explained that as well that same Vibrating feeling in fact that was the Sound that scared us more than anything But when Travis finally got got up there And got hit with that beam it made a it

Made a sound I don’t want to say zap sound because That’s cartoonish too you know yeah but Uh if you can imagine that giving off a Sound and then Travis getting hit and You know and there would be sound with That and there was sound with it it’s Just that it’s not in that painting Yeah and then of course the sound of him Hitting the ground you know That made a sound So there’s a lot it’s a lot of sound Which is is this another one here Mike Yeah that’s a different painting that’s That that’s the uh The cover of uh Fire in the Sky Oh wow It’s the same painting as that first one But the first was cartoonish and this One is is realistic or more realistic I was just looking at a picture of the Um the UFO from the film Fire in the Sky And that’s certainly some uh Uh creative editing isn’t it on the Film’s point of view See this picture he’s showing right now Is that I did that I actually went and Took those pictures with me holding some Of these paintings because some of the People were saying that’s that’s a pain That’s a that’s a photograph that’s not Real I mean the painting to show that it’s Actually a painting

Happy for yours than having the picture They should have put that in the front Cover And here it shows you the difference see The movie the poster that of the movie Was is actually a picture a photograph That was made for the movie but it’s uh Identical and they’re identical to the To them yeah It was turned around it was it was going The other direction that’s why the Writing is backwards on that poster So you think bubbles are copied this but The spots I don’t know just something to Say you don’t but you don’t believe the Guy Yeah I’m I’m for the most part I’m Saying he’s uh he’s BS for the most part Uh because there’s no government people That agree with him you know that he Even he was part of the their doings There I think there would be more more to say It by now it would come more to the Surface And that since that’s secret and he Knows the secret he can he can he can Make it a secret because they’re not Going to come out with anything And he knows that Ali I have to take off brother yeah you You go do your show Rich awesome Uh well a lot um you know what we’ve Been talking about not here but uh you

Know is ufology burning to the ground Now You know did you know what Lou did and All that stuff I’ll tell you this the Skeptics are always going to do their Part to make that happen but they’ve Been doing that for 40 for 50 some years And that’s what I’m going to explain to People this is just normal ufology stuff Yeah that’s right we’ll get into it all Right Ryan Gordon is just one among many And there’ll be more there’ll be more You take off Rich thanks guys Mike it Was great meeting you Lee good journey I Can tell you this though I know for a Fact that UFOs are real that’s something I can say for an absolute certainty That’s a big comment yeah five years Five years before this happened before Night and that was 1970 Travis and I and And a different vehicle I was driving in My Dodge Charger at the time we’re Headed to Phoenix it was after dark had My family in the back seat my brother And two of my sisters and my wife and Travis was in the passenger seat front Seat and we’d not gone very far out of Snowflake and and make it short we’ve Held an object that was a sphere and it Was uh approximately 100 feet in Diameter it came down out of the clouds Very slowly it got uh I don’t know Two or three hundred feet above the

Ground and a light a light turned on Underneath it Like a like a like a beam but it was Wide because it hit the ground when it Hit the ground it was lit up the ground Brighter than daylight in an area uh About the width of a foot by field and The and the object went slowly back up It took it quite a while to get back up Into the clouds but when it got up close To the clouds it was covering an area That was like uh three or four hundred Yards and across a big circular area That wide lighter than day and yet yet There was no no visible uh lighting Fixture that create that the light was Coming from And there was no sound and we were going Down the highway this thing went up in The clouds and disappeared well within Seconds I drove underneath the area Right beneath where this object had been And the and the windshield covered with With mist to where I had to turn the Windshield wipers on and it wasn’t it Wasn’t raining or anything the Mist was Coming from the from that object And uh it was uh large and it uh It was extremely dramatic I mean Uh We didn’t know what to think of it at The time but that happened five years Prior to this so when this happened that Was the only thing we had happen uh in

Our entire lives prior to this prior to The event in 1975 the craft looks Similar to what you saw that night with Travis no no all right it was a sphere It was it was a hundred foot and die Approximately 100 feet in diameter and It was a sphere you know a completely Round object But it didn’t have any uh any meaningful Details it had details but more or less To do with color and whatnot amazing I Couldn’t really see into it But it was definitely uh an alien object It was it was for all intent purpose a UFO It was an extraterrestrial vehicle Because nothing else that we’ve ever had In this world could ever do what it did Or look like it did back then for sure Going Rich you you shoot all right take Care of everybody all right See you later Rich Lee see you later Rich everybody else I know go go go I Know So so so Mike Um I I I don’t I know you said you’re Not into ufology but this go this is Quite fitting with uh what Jennifer’s Actually asking here because I’m gonna Ask the same question you’ve heard of The Tic Tac you’ve heard of the the if You’ve heard of The Tick Tock UFO that Everybody’s talking about yeah sure I’ve Seen all that on TV the gimbal uh-huh

Yeah I’m asking I’m asking you this is This is just answer her question uh well Not just answer the questions I I Honestly what do you think this is The craft that we saw In That I’m not just going to go back to The crack I’d say go go to go with two Questions there do you do what do you Think the craft you saw was and and what Do you think the phenomena is well I go About 80 to 90 percent that it was Extraterrestrial Steve Steve is still hung on uh Government and even though I think the Phoenix Lights was government origin Uh I I think that what we saw that night Was more than likely extraterrestrial I wouldn’t rule government out because Because it’s it’s a it’s such a crazy Story you can’t just rule things out but It does seem like an awful lot of Soul To fake and Abduction of somebody in the Middle of a forest Just for for I I don’t see the benefit Of the fraud If it’s a government fraud you know I Don’t see the benefit I don’t see the Benefit the fraud for the money because You guys are not making any money off it Only Travis that’s why That’s why I can’t get my head around And and again Mike I’m I I’m sorry to

Say this but I was already I was ready to set before I had Steve on I was like One of them’s got one of these guys are Gonna crack one of these guys is going To tell one of these guys is gonna tell Me yeah hey It was a hoax well three people have Already gone by the way and none of them Are cracked And none of them are going to crack it’s Just not going to happen This thing really happened what we have Happened to us actually happened and That’s what I want right Well there you got it It was a real event It happened exactly the way I described It and of course Steve thinks it’s a Little different from that like he Didn’t cry it has nothing to do with you Whether he cried or not but he thinks That’s like everything you know like Like he thinks it’s a hoax because he Thinks that I wrote it that I didn’t Describe him properly he says this other Thing that We didn’t draw straws to the to which Who went first to the to the lie Detector test well we did but the Trouble it was oh you did yes we did but Steve wasn’t a part of that it was after He went in that we took from straws to See who was going to be next but but the

The lie detector man uh side Gelson was The one that decided who was going to be Next so what we drew straws about I Didn’t make a damn bit of difference But we did draw straws he wasn’t a part Of it because he went there And Would you say that Steve got picked to Go in first and then you guys could draw Stars of straws afterwards but was Steve Actually like Steve said he was picked Because he was the youngest right yeah I didn’t even think to draw straws until Until Steve was taken but they were Telling us that he’s not going to be Back for two hours I can’t remember who Told us that but I was thinking about This you know it’s going to be all damn Day long I don’t I don’t want to wait Until this evening sometime to be my Like my part of the test you know we That Drew straws to kind of like put it In perspective so we know what to do Because if I wasn’t going to be having To take my test for like five or six Hours I want to go have a restaurant Meal somewhere I didn’t want to sit There on a bench all that time you know But so that’s why we drew straws but When they came back in they they uh I Can’t remember who was next and uh they Weren’t telling us how when we were Going who they wanted us all to stay There so I couldn’t go down and get some

Mexican food for lunch But that’s the reason for it Oh another thing Steve said is that his Mother was the only one of the mothers That was there that’s not correct Alan Dallas’s mother was there as well It’s just something Steve just hasn’t Isn’t right about he’s you know how old Is at the time At the time Allen Dallas was I I think He was 20. Either 19 or 20. Steve 100 was the youngest there because There was rumors that there was a Somebody was younger that had lied in Fact uh uh Steve has told me since then That the jungle that was only 16. yes That’s what I heard yeah but I don’t Know if that’s correct or not because I Never heard that from John and it didn’t Seem that way And John didn’t you know when when I Hired John he didn’t tell me he was 16 Or 17 or 20 or nothing I asked him I Said are you old enough you know yeah I Mean that’s it was it was it was like That it wasn’t a real formal thing if Somebody looked like they were old Enough they were old enough you know Because if I would have asked Steve for Identification out and only was 17 I Wouldn’t put him to work I mean I The thing is that honestly I suppose a

Lot of the people that are into this Right now is they can’t comprehend the 70s and what it was like back then I Mean you beat the living [ __ ] out of one Of your um oh yeah one of you guys Ellen And I got into a fight uh like how long It was before that was it seemed a few Days to a couple of weeks before but Ella had stolen some headers off of my Brother’s car and my brother had left His car there in my yard my backyard and I was naturally it was my responsibility Well The headers ended up messing I was Showing the car to somebody and the Headers weren’t there so and they were Special headers special made The car was special made anyway I Thought Allen Dallas was the first thing That came to mind so Travis Walton and I and my brother Charles got in my van and we went Looking for Alan We didn’t take too long until we found Him he was driving in a car with another Guy and we started chasing him he knew What we were after so he started he Started became a car chase Finally he gave up and he went to this Friend uh to a friend of his And he went in the house and he came out With the headers And I by this time I had parked the van And I got out but I walked up there

Waiting for him to come out and he came Out right about that time he had the Headers in his hand he threw them at me And of course I had to step back and They landed at my feet I got pretty pissed off at that point And so I walked around the headers and I Walked right up to Allen and I got in His face and I told him I said What makes you think you can get away With this Because the guy he had sold them to was Right there looking at him at the time And he gone in the house you know to get The headers and so he gave me some line Of crap and he called me a name and so I Smacked him right there hard and he fell Back and he came at me again I kicked Him in the middle and he fell back again I kicked him or hit him several times You know he never was able to do Anything finally he he ran across the Street yelling [ __ ] at me you know And uh what’s funny about that is that I’m one of these people that I don’t Take things like that to be really Solidly personal you know So he came over to my house later that Evening he says He says I need my job And I says okay I didn’t fire you Must be here tomorrow we go to work you Know I mean my brother got his head he’s Back that was taken care of Helen could

Take care of whatever his problem he is You know but my my argument with him was Settled and that was the end of that So so after this situation happened After after the uh the event did you Ever get into a physical altercation With any of the the the boys no Allen Was the only one And that was Prior yeah it was prior to The event Right yeah several days to a couple of Weeks prior so what why do you think Over time Your relationships have been up and down And They haven’t been off This well this is what we’re hearing Everybody’s hearing well that’s Steve Steve spoke Steve says that and uh uh Dave says that we’ve had a phone call With Travis with Ryan Gordon and I don’t Believe that was manipulated I have to Say I think that was it okay I haven’t Heard that myself but uh Probably wasn’t manipulated That was well he was Travis talking About Yourself And it Ryan was Saying you’re right about Mike So in well respect And here well here’s the thing Mike he Was just about

You He he was stating that he had told you Many times to leave Travis alone Who had And Ryan Gordon Ryan Gordon yeah he Never told me that once This is what I wanted in the world yeah Ever that I’ve ever known of Ryan Gordon doesn’t even know what the Hell the truth is What was the project though what was the Was it was it a film is it is it is is That true was he remaking firing this Guy I haven’t even heard this oh yeah They’re supposed to be a uh Travis has Said for a long time that there’s a There’s going to be a remake of Fire in The Sky but he won’t tell anybody Specifically when or how or who And I’ve never said anything about it Negative it’s just that Travis has never Told me about it but it wasn’t Ryan God Made he he’s telling me Ryan was oh yeah Well uh Travis at one time said uh No it wasn’t when trial was as Ryan Gordon said that he was the one that was Making the film that’s right And that was on Erica’s show As before I first heard that Uh Well it was [ __ ] yeah Ryan Gordon Didn’t have anything to do with Travis’s Concept of a remake Like fire in the sky right for right

Whatever whatever was wrong with it or Write with it factually was a big film And if it’s going to be remade it’s Going to be remade by a big Hollywood Production I would imagine it’s not Going to be something I think it’ll ever be done no I don’t I Don’t believe that it will ever ever Come to pass I I think I imagine it will be at some sometime Because everything gets rebooted And yet When you look at how many times the yeah Stories come out and things yeah I’m Sure sometime in the future but in the Distant future Because at the present time Like you’re saying the money they spent On fire in the sky and all that that Kind of a production they would have to Top that to do it again yeah yeah And why do it again it needs to be done Now though to get the full story because No no disrespect you guys are in your 70s 60s you know like my dad yeah but I’ll tell you something the reason why It’s going to be later is because we’re Still alive Because the story is not going to be Yeah they need a different story I think I think Iman Ryan was uh In love with the idea of the Um of the the tower Debunk Theory and I think that that was

That was what clearly in my head that’s What he was going to do that’s what the Film would have been in his mind and I Don’t think he got enough meat to flush That’s that’s not what Travis is talking About he’s talking about a remake of Firing oh yeah no no I I just meant the Uh Ryan I think that I think that’s what When he when he talked to Ollie about The film I think that’s what his film Was going to be about would have been Did anybody else mention Jen should Shower No other than Ryan no the first time I’ve ever heard it was from Ryan Gordon So Philip Glass never mentioned it no he Never did nobody and like I said there’s Been many Skeptics in between Michael Shermer uh your name and I mean [ __ ] They’re they’re endless Big names sure but the location The location where this happened their Genji Chao is nowhere near that no four Miles to the west and and not visible From there and not on the same road You’d have to take a completely Different Road completely out of the way You’d have to go in the wrong direction For like 50 miles in the round trip to Go past Gentry Tower make contact with It with the highway and go back towards Snowflake to get home Who’s going to go 50 miles out of the Way that trip was only 50 miles in the

First place well this is where I asked Myself this question if you you guys Would have to be all in on it Because I’m wondering the the other guys In the truck they would one of them Would say Mike this is the wrong place It’s ridiculous on every count just About anything you can say that Gentry Tower concept is completely wrong any Way you look at it It’s in the wrong place it’s it’s the Wrong time that’s what I’m saying so Over time I keep asking myself these Questions so Ryan he he puts up a great Argument that these guys could have seen Gentry Tower and you know what Mike I Was all in on that but then at over time I’ve started to ask myself especially When I spoke to Steve and I spoke to Steve after the show Why do if if it’s because he let’s face It if this was done There would have to be some of the boys In the car that are not in on it you’re In it Travis’s brother’s in on it but If the These boys The these these fellas they’re in the Car I I think they know the land and one of Them would one of them would say you Know what Mike you’ve took the police to The wrong location absolutely that’s Just one of the things that’s wrong

About the concept Uh it’s on a different Road it’s not a Road that we ever took ever took it’s Completely off the track unless they Were drunk [Laughter] Let’s all get drunk and make up anything Then you know I normally do okay Day Travis did go missing Travis Travis Wasn’t at work that day He was there he slept for a while in the Truck that’s a fact but but he worked The rest of the day He worked before that he laid down the Truck because he wasn’t feeling good And and I knew how he was there I don’t Know how for how long I didn’t keep Track of the time but he got up after a While went back to work You know the the day was 10 11 hours Long anyway A two-hour nap he’s still put in more Than an eight hour a day Yeah you could say something about Travis taking a nap in the truck So what what did that have to do with Anything The only time people took a nap in the Truck That happened quite regularly Not my time I took a nap in the truck on Occasion you’re the boss you’re allowed Yeah well yeah and uh what about Steve

Pierce going behind a tree and smoking Pot constantly during the day I certainly wouldn’t have put up for That for a second if I’d have known About it he admitted that to me on on The show that I did you know of this Case I had him as a guest And he he tells me on that show that he Was smoking pot him and John Well I had no idea because if I’d have Known you wouldn’t have been working There I’d have sent you down the road You know right now he’s watching this I’m laughing his ass off he’s doing that Yeah well good for him To answer it though because there’s it Doesn’t really matter what they’re Saying it’s just the um there’s someone In the chat talking about how how did You know Uh where you were and what uh how did You know what what where the right place Was given the fact it was dark Um it would have been the wrong place The forest service would have known Because it was all mapped out on a Government contract and if we weren’t Doing exactly what we’re supposed to do We wouldn’t have been where we were we Wouldn’t have been doing what we were Doing That that’s what that’s what I wanted to Know because given the fact you’re Working there I take it you were very

Familiar with the surroundings and the Area that’s right and how did the forest Service know where this happened without Me going and tell them They were the first ones on the scene And they knew exactly where it happened Yeah I didn’t tell them anything They were there before the sheriff Gillespie and everybody that were the Searchers You know everybody knew exactly where we Were working because it was all a part Of a government contract It was all spelled out in black and White the roads that we were supposed to Be using exactly what we were doing how We were doing it it was all laid out Hell Phil class knew all that he went Into that and so depth that he made up All kinds of new theories about how it Wasn’t real on that basis but he at Least used the facts to base it on Contractual facts Damage to your truck Uh after I left the scene yeah yeah What was it what was the damage both Both of my mirrors were knocked off There was a dent in the side of the Truck from hitting the tree I don’t know What other damage I didn’t pay attention I didn’t use the truck much after that And how long was the contract for in in The area Well I’d have to look at the contract uh

It would have it would have ended within The in the next couple of weeks that’s One thing that Phil class made a big big Issue of is that uh the contract uh was Too far behind But I showed him Somebody else in the spring see the Contract I actually defaulted on the Contract because I didn’t finish it but I didn’t finish it because I couldn’t I Mean I didn’t finish it because a part Of the plan of a hoax or whatever is Because like I didn’t have a crew I we couldn’t go back I didn’t go back And do any work because I had no workers Nobody wanted to go back there none of My original workers wanted to go and Nobody knew people wanted wanted to go Either and uh but the point is that the The contract was re-advertised in the Spring not that winter in the spring and Some were uh in mid-spring uh before Summer Uh it was re-advertised and it was led Out to another contractor who actually Bid two dollars less per acre than I did And that person finished it in the Amount of time that I had left on the Contract To begin with In other words I would have got it done And this other contractor proved it But nobody cares about that because

Believers only believe what they want to Believe and Skeptics only believe what They want to believe which is they don’t Believe in you both Tomorrow What is that what happens to that truck Uh the the following winter Well it sat in my backyard a long time Because I didn’t use it anymore Uh but the following winter the engine Froze because I didn’t didn’t keep up Keep it up you know I let it apparently Let it get too low on antifreeze and the Engine froze up and it popped uh that Plugs out you know on the bottom of the Engine And that run it so I sold it to a uh What they call it a wrecking yard I don’t remember what I sold it for if I Still had it I could probably get a few Thousand out of it and I think you can’t Put a lot more for that I think Joe Rogan I think Joe Rogan would probably Buy that truck Put it on his desk yeah but it’s Probably it’s long since gone for sure And by now it’s probably been crushed And become a part of some new car As a um has it been difficult the The Seeing something which is Like a life-changing a life-changing Question that won’t be answered that’s a Pretty good way of putting it is that

Difficult thing to deal with I actually believe my life would have Been better on the whole Uh for one thing my wife and I got a Divorce Uh less than a year later And things like that happen you know and A lot of personal things that I don’t Really want to get into But uh Like like even like Steve he says his Life went to hell after that my life Went to hell after that I didn’t have Any stability for for several years And I never got remarried I took my ex-wife to court and the judge Awarded me the children he didn’t even Give her visitation I gave her visitation but it wasn’t Awarded to her And that’s neither here nor there as to Whose fault it was or who was to gain or Anything is this the way it happened Um I went into very several different lines Of work I didn’t work in the woods for a While I went into construction built a few Houses Built one for my sister Uh I did some commercial work built a Pump house and All the technical stuff that needs to go Along with it I got into some technical

Work like that And I got into sign painting also And that went quite a ways I got to Where I was doing Billboards all the way Down to the Mexican border all over the State of Arizona and even other states Uh and I got into eventually into Logging contests you know logging Ventures for uh you’ve seen it on TV Where they do the various events And I came out you know first second Third and all everything I entered I won the last one I entered hands down I just I I took first place and Practically all the events But I’d Gotten Good at it by that time You know of My life just went Head Over Heels I got into for uh into The Domestic tree service business was the Last last line of work I was in And we did real good in that I did stuff that other people were not Capable of doing And uh All along I’ve Illustrated here and There I’ve done a lot of illustrating I did all the stuff 10 of them all Together for the Walton A thing and uh Since then I’ve done illustrations of All kinds of stuff I’ve got one unfinished painting it’s a

Painting of Christ it’s finished but I Just I don’t want to call it finished I Don’t want to show it until I consider It to be done I guess that subject is just like I Don’t consider myself capable of doing Justice to that painting Is that because of what you saw Well I’ve never seen Christ Maybe you did Do you think is a conflict With your beliefs No I don’t have any conflict my beliefs I don’t I don’t believe I believe in a higher being but I don’t Believe it in it religiously I don’t Believe in religions I don’t believe in Those sorts of organizations Uh I’m more realistic than that But you’re doing a painting of Christ Yeah a painting that I started over 30 Years ago probably 40 years ago And uh I’ve dabbled at it Over the years I’ve had times when I’ve Worked on it but So many hours working on that painting That could have been done 100 times over By now I just it needs something and I just Don’t know what to add to it It’s just that simple it’s not it’s not Because there’s a big conflict or Anything

I think you will come You know yeah I think it should I Definitely wanted to Uh Everything ready at times and then just Looked at it for several hours and then Just put everything away Might be before we end and I would love To get you on again I’d like to get you On with Steve I’d like to have like See you two just have a chat you know as Friends Uh what it always starts out good Because I always started out good but Before long Steve starts claiming that I Along with Travis hoaxed him you know And when he says that it loses all You know it loses everything I didn’t Get that from the interview with Steve I Didn’t get I didn’t get that Steve was saying that You hoaxed it Well he said that to me on several Occasions So how did you hoax MC in the UFO take It off in first time that’s what I’ve Tried to tell him Yeah how did the Hawks do he won’t Answer me Unless he thinks you were from the Government Me being a hoaxing With somebody else’s help I don’t know Who Travis and his brother uh how does

That fit in with his government concept Do you think Travis is telling the truth when he he He said on on many shows that he wishes This had never happened And he wished he wishes he wished this Was one of you The other six rather than him Oh I think he’s sincerely about that I Think he’s sincere about what he says Happened All I’m saying is I didn’t see it Answer that question that’s traps the Story it’s not my story You know that’s that’s his words I can’t Vouch for for what he saw because I Wasn’t there I think Steve said that Several times Can’t say say what Travis saw because we Don’t know We didn’t seem abducted and we weren’t There when he was abducted or during any Of that five days we weren’t anywhere Near him But from what he’s told You fellas from what he’s telling the Public his story has not changed I’m Talking about on the craft now when he Saw the the the beings and he saw the Humanoid beings as well that has not Changed Charles the story has not Changed at all in all this time He’s had various theories about it but He claims that there are theories

They’re just ideas they’re Concepts you Know that of what could be He makes it certain that he that people Understand that that he’s not saying That’s what happened Saying that’s what may have happened He only says what’s fact in his mind And as Travis ever said that he thinks He could have been The Govern the the humans that took him And put those images into his head Well he’s told me personally that even Though that’s a possibility it seems Unlikely because it just doesn’t seem Possible Yeah why it doesn’t you know Steve gets it gets it across by saying It’s uh a mental thing you know I don’t I don’t see that at all See both sides Yeah I I see you know what Mike I see Every side of this I see the people side That’s saying you you boys hoax this I See the side where people are saying you Know This is the greatest story ever and That’s that’s that’s where that’s where My heart sits with this that’s where my Heart sits with this And I see the side that says Every single one of you are manipulated Because I think that and you’re not in You into ufology But I do think the community has been

Manipulated Well the government does a lot of stuff Like that but I don’t know if they’re Into mine manipulation I think their Manipulation takes place In the way that I think the Phoenix Lights took place It uh created something probably a Subcontract or some some kind of Contract somebody built it And there’s no pilot or anything it just Flies and it stays forward and does Everything it’s supposed to do which is Nothing really it just has a point that Stays forward and it’s just there and it Floated With The Wind that much I can Prove it floated on the Wind absolutely Absolutely in every detail upload on the Window elevation speed And exact Direction But you know That’s what happened that doesn’t mean That the government Was manipulating people on the ground it Doesn’t mean they were getting into Their heads like that they were they Were creating that sort of an effect With this object and then they’re Recording how people actually reacted to It They’re not manipulating people’s minds Late before we tune out because I know My good good friend Mr G has gone live I Think in the next five minutes

Um have you got any final questions Um no final questions just I I’d like to Pull pull something back up that we just Talked about before and it’s more more For some of the people in the chat Because I I think I I think it’s been Great to be speaking to you tonight Um I always think when it comes to doing These long-form podcasts and stuff that Um It’s very difficult for people to hide Places if Um if they’re lying about things so I’m I’m 100 Uh on board with the fact that you’re You’re you’re telling the truth as far As you know it you’re right now and uh For fight people in the in the chat Saying this is for money and things like That and I I see lots of those comments Pop up Um when you said just before that uh you Didn’t go back working in the forest you Went into construction and stuff so You’re you you’re saying that after this Event you basically went back into Nine-to-five work Well we didn’t go back in the forest I Know I did just work in general yeah Well I did go back into the woods uh a Couple of years later Uh But it wasn’t it wasn’t like before at All it wasn’t running the crew

Uh my dad and I I had an idea for a a Machine that would do the same work we Were doing with chainsaws prior to that And so he had the money and we we built This machine and we did that for uh Several years Uh you built you invented something yeah I invented a machine that would would Cut these trees uh and do the work of 10 10 cutters With the with the cost of a of a a dozer A tractor Dozer a special As a case crawler tractor Case 450 And we mounted a blade on the front of It that would cut the trees off And uh and then run over the top of them And cut the upper limbs off And it did such a good job that for Several years the contracts that the Four stars came out stipulated that it Had to be tractor done had to be done With the tractor So you know and well just the point I Was I wanted to make out to the chat There was that if you if you were Involved in some sort of hoax which was Just to money for to make money Um it didn’t seem to work very well Because you had to go back to work okay Yeah I don’t know where anybody is ever Supposed to come from you know I was Only paid a thousand dollars for the Movie even though they use my name in

Their results I got a thousand dollars Crazy Travis I’ve heard got over a Hundred thousand I don’t know what he Got but definitely not a thousand yeah And there were several people that Didn’t get anything Steve didn’t get Anything uh Uh Dwayne Smith didn’t get anything uh Alan Dallas didn’t get anything Oh no Alan Dallas did Ken Peterson Didn’t get paid anything There are a lot of people that got a Thousand dollars that really didn’t have A whole lot to do with this like my Sister Dana that was married to Travis After the a year later after the event Uh I think one of my daughters got a Thousand dollars just because She was one of my daughters and they had My daughter’s a couple of my daughters I Had four daughters by that time but they Want to put two of them in the movie and So they had to pay somebody so they gave My daughter Don who’s the oldest one That gave her a thousand And I go all I got was a thousand However they made up for it pretty good Later on while I was involved in Promoting the movie And I I told I’m not supposed to say how Much but it was well worth it yeah and They they sent me and Travis around the World and they I said well I want I want My sister Diana Travis’s wife and my

Girlfriend to go with us and so they Agreed to it And like for instance the trip to Australia cost them tens of thousands of Dollars And they paid it like it was nothing Um I know we said we’re going to end the Show but Why did you and Travis fall out so many Times Well because I believe that he owes me Money that he just refuses to pay me Won’t even acknowledge it Uh I I had an agreement in writing okay I was supposed to get 35 percent of Whatever book the first book and the Second book Uh the con the contract didn’t end Because of the first book the second Book was the same thing it was included And uh 35 percent and I have all those rights And I have uh right to 35 percent of of Whatever comes from a movie Travis sold Paramount 100 percent of Rights to the movie that’s where the Trouble starts He broke the agreement and I I could Have caused him a lot of trouble the Time that I didn’t because of my sister Dana I didn’t want to hurt my sister I didn’t Want to hurt his kids at the time

Family meant more to me than that but we Still had a falling out about it and It’s still a problem between us because He won’t give in and I won’t give in but We do speak to each other So so he still doesn’t give you any Money Nope not at all Travis come on man sort That out yeah I mean he he’s told I Don’t know how many books he sold over a 22 23 year period up until recently Finally to get away from it he had the Book redone with all new illustrations And he cut all my old choices out That’s a dramatic statement all by Herself yeah he’s going overboard not to Pay me I think the judge was again is Really interested about that what’s What’s really interesting Is the fact that there’s there Is yet another reason Why if it was a hoax there’s a really Good reason for you to come out and say It’s a hoax Yeah if it was a hoax you think I’d let It go on like this yeah Even if it was just like one final sort Of [ __ ] you moment that you you’ve Earned me money for this so I’m gonna Set the whole thing on fire I’ll tell you something else Ryan Gordon Is not the only person to ever offer me Money to go along with a hoax okay I was Offered a consider an amount of money

That was from make that Non-existent basically in comparison Who from A New York publisher Wanted me to write a book And they had a concept and when we named This New York publisher yes You know there was two New York Publishers that published the books that We did that I did the illustration for And Travis did the all the writing All I ever gave Trouse was a few pages To go by for the time he was missing That’s it He wrote the book okay but there there Is a Berkeley publishing company was the First one that published uh the Walton Experience And Fire in the Sky Was with Marlo and Sons And I won’t say who offered me that Money because I didn’t do it and I won’t Do it But it was one of those too no it was Different No it wasn’t one either of those So so a New York publisher of the G Money yeah They wanted me to write a synopsis first How much well I’m not going to say how Much I can tell you how much they were They were going to write me they were Gonna to write a synopsis okay

They’re going to pay me 200 000 for it And then they like if they like the book They would uh they would pay me a Considerable sum and when was that when We went back well that was about about Two years ago when this case was at its Height uh when Travis did that Rogan Show yeah right We attempted Huh we attempted Who attempted no what were you were you Tempted in this life of course I was Tempted yeah but I’m but I’m not going To lie like that that would ruin my life Wouldn’t make any difference how much Money I would have had to have moved out of The country and then Looked over my shoulder for the rest of My life Because it wouldn’t be the truth that’s The main thing it would have been a big Lie I don’t care how much money they want to Pay Ryan Gordon’s 25 000 is pittance Compared to that but it wouldn’t make Any difference it’s a lie just to say It’s a hoax is a lie UFOs are real And what happened to us is real there Was an object there as we described Absolutely It did everything we said it did Well that’s a great ending point for

This um Okay the stream UFOs are real people That tops it off doesn’t we have no idea What they are Mike I I honestly it’s been an absolute Pleasure speaking to you tonight and I hope My questions have not come across harsh It’s just that is what the community Want me to ask and that’s what I want That’s what I wanted to ask you I would Answer any question you want you did you Did yeah yeah and you did and you you Followed through with that in fact my Voice is getting a little bit uh rough Here Well yeah because I’ve talked so long we We are we’re gonna put this to bed but I Would love to get you back on with Steve I’d like to get you all along I’ll be Honest with you of course I would but But I don’t know if Travis would I I could Be surprised but I doubt he would Just tell him we’ve both got Gingy Beards oh one other thing is that Steve Made this comment that That John wouldn’t agree to it or I Wouldn’t agree to it had to do with John He’s wrong Oh yeah he’s right he is wrong I’ve Already spoke with Dave Dave Miller There’s nothing going on between John And I uh several years ago John thought

That I insulted his sister but that was A long time ago Uh Steve is actually my son my uh Brother-in-law I mean not Steve it’s John John my Wife’s name is Katie gallette my ex-wife Katie gallett John’s sister Well John’s a great guy you boys have Lived A Very interesting life And modern day folklore isn’t it it’s Not it’s not every day you get to speak To somebody that’s part of modern day Folklore that’s Modern day foreclose that’s that’s kind Of strange that you’d call it that No no but that’s what it is you know It’s it’s not I don’t mean it is to to Knock the story or anything like that But that’s that that’s what the That’s what UFOs are isn’t it you know It’s the yeah and that in that context Then it is the same yeah it’s the uh It’s part of the like the the the whole Fire and the guy story is part of the Fabric of this culture isn’t it yeah it Sure is it’s been a pleasure It’s been an absolute pleasure and I Don’t I don’t want it to end but people This has been Mike Rogers Interview on alien on it that has been Lee must see audio go check him out he’s

In the description below And goof on who Decided to dish out early Because he’s got a live show right now I Think it’s actually live now It’s been a pleasure Mike I want to Thank you so much for coming out I’ve Enjoyed it too and I enjoyed the Questions and I I think it’s it’s uh I Think most everything that I needed to Say I’ve been able to say so I hope You’ll stick around for 10 minutes Afterwards speak okay Leak whatever you want to do you know All right okay thank you so much Mike Rogers all right it’s been a pleasure Guys you bet me too bye-bye thank you Boys and girls ladies and gents uh it’s Been a great evening uh I hope I have But the questions out there that you Wanted me to ask Um if not we’ll get we’ll get we’re Gonna get Mike and we’ll get Steve on Together I’d like to get Travis in the same room Travis both me and Leah gingers Um you may not be able to tell this Right now but there is a ginger beard Popping up through there and if you if Leave you just hold your head up high You get that shine on there it’s Beautiful I I think people can see I’m Ginger Ali I don’t know and changes Stick together also gingers

Are into aliens because we it’s it’s Quite possible that we are aliens but um I’m gonna go Like share and subscribe people if you Want to become a patreon you can support The channel uh there are pictures of Lee Naked on the patreon page Um look if the [ __ ] demands there the Only fans will be there So yeah you can support the channel Further if you want to get some some Merchandise I do design all my own stuff You can see bubble zaja and Jeremy Rocking an alien addict t-shirt there uh There you go people you can go help Yourselves well it’s not free nothing’s Free in this world good night God bless People mind the books don’t buy a Million I think like share subscribe and All that jazz and let’s carry on this Like this video to carry on And get the [ __ ] the full Well the boys that are left On alien edit Just have a chat and just you know Become friends again good night God Bless bye-bye