Travis Walton was it the greatest abduction HOAX?

Uh Am i muted no i’m not muted good evening Folks and welcome to alien addict yes I’m wearing the same shirt as last night Because it’s comfy And uh it still smells uh Of nothingness so we’re good we’re all Gravy we’re in the game And we’re gonna talk about the travesty That is the travis Walton case uh because Recently it’s It’s lit my fire but not in the sky It’s um it’s making me a little bit Angry a little bit sad And i hope it’s not true welcome boys Why are we all on this luxurious evening You’re already saddened by it rich yeah Since last Well since i’ve been talking about it i Haven’t stopped crying [Laughter] You know we always suspected it anyway Right but this is really bad So rachel before we i I watched your show and not that one no Wait But i did watch that one though um but i I watched that show with that guy you Had on i’ve forgotten the guy’s name Who’s got being given a hell of a lot of Hate On this subject of travis walton And you know people are angry with him

But he brought up some very some Compelling evidence And you know it’s I always thought this case was Was the one you know i always thought And i’m not saying i don’t still think That because i have not made my mind up At all right but you know i I looked at travis’s story and i thought This is The greatest story with We’ve we’ve witnesses you know All these guys all singing of the same Hymn page And you know it’s interesting to look at This story uh And see that there are many different Perspectives and angles to it now of Course A lot of angles when they put together Form some sort of theory And while we don’t have a complete Theory as to what happened to travis In its entirety there are some pretty Convincing Theories that are out there at least in Line of what we’re talking about the Thing that bothers me the most Are some of these peripheral elements Such as They had a contract that was ending in Five days and perhaps this is One way that they got out of it by you Know some sort of act of god was the

Only way To get an extension you know there’s These little peripheral things that sort Of add up that Really turn my eye when it comes to Travis walton these days There’s so much to go over ollie I hope you have enough time Seriously and i’m still on the fence About it i really don’t know You know because when you listen to uh Travis talk about it when he was on Jimmy church’s show man does he still Sound convincing and And the rebuttals he had which weren’t Many Jimmy kind of stayed away from the hard Questions Um i i don’t know man i really See i had questions i’m like everything Would have to work out perfectly if this Was planned like nobody else could have Gotten out of the truck when travis did If somebody else got out of the truck to Go with him to look at the ufo it’s over They would have figured it out And i’m like well if they saw it right There How could it be the light tower four Miles or four miles away so yeah I have a lot of problems here rich for The newcomers To this recent news can you kind of give Us a brief

Background of what’s been the evidence That’s come to light and just just Just for the people that have just Entered yeah Well mike rogers came out and said that Uh confessed to a hoax to producer ryan Gordon in a recorded phone call on april 30th i Can get the recorded phone call for you If you’d like to hear it But he did and there’s a transcript of It A few days later mike had changed his Mind and said the audio wasn’t Was manipulated and and then it then he Came back and said it wasn’t manipulated He thought there was going to be a Lawsuit and then he changed it back to His original statement Um there’s uh Dwayne which is the brother Of um travis who was said to have picked Him Up at the location when travis drove not Travis when mike drove away With the other five guys and that’s how They were able to pull it off Um apparently he stayed in this uh fire Tower that was about four miles away or So And he hung out there for five days um The evidence i mean We’ll have to go over it because i’ll be Here for a good two minutes three

Minutes talking about it Um but travis did fail the very first Lie detective test And the very last one he took on that Game show So but that one was covered up by the National enquirer And they didn’t want the story to not be Real because they were going to award Them The winnings of having the best alien Abduction Case for national enquirer it was a Contest they were having So there’s a lot of stuff that mike Rogers went into Talked about and explained and i have a Transcript Of it but you know i can go over it a Little bit here and there Yeah definitely but slightly just on That um The game show we spoke about that months Ago where And and we’ve we even said back and Forth with each other That this is this is obviously being Done on purpose You know somewhere somebody’s rigged That for it for it to actually fail Because we believed travis that much The funny thing is you know why Everybody else passed the lie detector Test

Because they weren’t in on the hoax It was mike duane and travis and the Other person at the light tower Apparently see that’s what i’m saying There’s a lot of moving parts here The the person in the light tower never Came forward and the reason is because They You know would lose their job and you Know people in the community and all That stuff but Travis and his brother mike were known For running around screaming ufo stories In the area that’s what they were known For the ufo guys So they had a history in the Neighborhood of being these Guys you know who talked about seeing Ufos It’s really interesting not to mention What was the movie that came out what Two weeks or I think it was on television uh ufo Incident Uh just before his uh his uh experience There was a movie that came out Just before it that actually was very Reminiscent of what he described he went Through So again another note of curiosity And travis’s story mimics Almost to a t this other story the Heinlein story i think it’s called Um hold on let me pull it up here

Because it Mimics it almost the heinlein heist yeah It’s a guy named Hein robert a heinlein so travis’s story Of what took place aboard alien craft Has striking similarities Both in sequence of events and specific Details i mean this is ripped right out Of the book So there was no flying saucer only a Lookout tower For the fires and the tail travis Returned to tell was so similar in Detail to heinlein’s stories it seems More likely it came from Heinlein’s imagination himself that’s How unbelievable it is Are they saying that this ufo was the Lookout tower Or the european they are How would i don’t know Not be able to tell the difference Between a look at so These guys go out doing the logging Quite often yeah they they They they live in the area they must Have seen no they don’t Oh they don’t live in the other five Guys don’t live in the area just travis And And mike so they knew the back roads They knew what roads to take To have that tower looking down upon Them

Through the trees with the light on as If it was a beam of light shooting out I mean it was pretty see this is what I’m saying guys i mean this Has to work so perfectly in every detail How could they have practiced it you Know practiced it that much and got the Light beam to shoot at travis and all This other stuff Yeah i don’t know but why would mike Do it and i still don’t know the answer To that Why would mike all of a sudden come out But i’m gonna have ryan gordon on monday On my show to talk about it the guy who Broke the story So we’ll get those answers this is going To sound a little bit A little bit bad but um To fool all these people apart from Obviously the guy that’s come out is That that’s him at the top isn’t it mike Rogers with the Hat um well they’ve got there’s a Feeling with a hat but the guy at the Top I think that’s the guy that we’re Talking about the guy that’s come out And said I could be wrong yeah um To to actually fool these people in the Car And pull it off and then pull it off for All these years

It’s as bad as it is it’s genius I know you know if true Yeah and maybe if he actually came out And said Oh you know what i fought the world it’d Make more money You’re And back then there was a real incentive For abductees anybody who had a ufo Story Uh it just was a sign of the times and Perhaps that was a motivating factor and To create this but as rich is mentioning There are a lot of moving parts that had To be executed perfectly and not only in The moment But to be able to cover that up in way Of memory you know what if some of these Guys that were involved that Didn’t know about the purported hoax you Know came forward one day and said you Know what As i started to recall this a little bit Later in life something was a little odd Nobody has because they really believed They saw a ufo That’s why you’re probably right about That Yeah it’s crazy they would go they they Went back to that spot again didn’t they You know through either after the fact Or After on television programs doing Documentaries and things like that

Do you not think at one point one of Them would have looked up going hang on A second that Where we said we saw the ufo there’s a Fire tower there No because they went to right back then You mean if they went back to the same Spot they would look because i know You come back but it’s four and a half Miles away but at night Through the trees i mean i don’t buy it I don’t know Man but if the but if these guys like You said they didn’t live in the area I mean someone took me out somewhere uh Late at night and Uh i saw something like this and then i I Drove back to the to the areas and one Of the guys actually said This is the area i’d go well maybe it Was you know oh Right how would they know would you Would you know rich would you know if Somebody drove you somewhere Somewhere late at night and uh you know They said there’s a lot of similar Places that look like that spot too Which is interesting So who knows and for anybody in the chat That thinks that we’re Just gonna we’re hating on the travis Walton Uh the that the experience

That that he allegedly allegedly uh You know witnessed and he got abducted By aliens we’re not calling him a liar But certain people are now and we need To investigate this and find out what is Going on And i i think you know and if we don’t If we just lay back and just watch You got to be in it to win it boys you Got to be critical about everything it Doesn’t matter who you are it’s not Personal if you come up with a story We need to corroborate it or at least Get some grounding there so that we can Give you the validity that you may be Seeking In presenting something like this even If it’s an old case like travis walton I mean christ if betty and barney hill Were still around i’d like to ask them Some Questions too but you know we have what We have especially in way of some of These retro Uh cases and travis isn’t getting any Younger and his lips aren’t getting any More loose From what he’s already said uh again the Phone call That you know rich is talking about and Referencing this is very interesting So if more can come out on that end you Know we might be building a completely Different case wherein

You know the the gravity leans towards One side of the spectrum More or less to the other i’d like to Bring that phone call up in a bit rich If you guys that’d be good i’m getting It right here yeah Um i i am going to get osvaldo franco Coming on Because he is he’s really into the Travis walton case and he’s And i have asked him to do do look do a Little bit of um Look it up and it would be interesting To see if he’s changed his tune On travis um i think rick and havoc is Going to try and Join us as well and him and us loving Each other which is Lee you you were saying before the show Uh that you never believed him You never believed travis i didn’t Believe travis after the rogue interview I was i was sort of Uncommitted i’d say on him Until then but he just it didn’t come Across as a genuine person When he was on that podcast why I don’t know it’s just the the feeling i Got from him the answers he was given he Seemed Exceptionally nervous which i mean Rogan’s a big platform but it’s not like He’s not been on big platforms before Um he just didn’t he didn’t come across

Like he would he had the He had the commitment of his own words And yeah but but Saying that um look i’m looking forward To listening to this Uh transcript again again because the When i listened to it earlier on before We did this show That guy doesn’t sound particularly Genuine either and there’s a lot of well I don’t know how they may Look like that but we’re just there and Then you know we made the thing that was Like the spaceship And a little bit of me wonders Whether that guys thought well i can’t Really get anything else From being part of the travis walton Story now But it can be the guy that destroys it I have it ready whenever you want to Hear it so just Let me know when yeah pop it up rich go In five nice and early in the show needs To be nice knowing this show Keeps people’s attention by the way rich I’m not going to get into trouble Playing this someone no good good Oh you’re getting you see that’s a Problem with stream yards having it Because they Don’t have in it okay well Here we go all i like to remember like Is that uh

We were we were talking in the woods one Day Travis and i and uh I i remember leaving a chainsaw On a stump okay uh he had a saw but he Took his willingness Because we were talking about creating A a ufo hopes okay yeah I don’t i don’t know how how the ufo got There okay But i remember that uh When i drove when i was driving the Truck and he jumped out it was it was All deliberate it was all a Staged thing okay yeah and he ran up There And uh there was something and there was Something about The ufo uh not being real Although it looked real but basically What you’re saying is what i want to say About that part what he meant What he said there hello Um yeah yeah it was Travis said that it didn’t look real But it was that’s what he’s talking About sounded weird but when you see the Transcript and read it it Makes sense but to me it sounds like He’s lying Beyond the fact he said okay after Everything he says And he’s stammering he’s stammering i Mean if you’re recollecting this in some

Sort of clarity especially if it’s an Event that you’ve been Talking about or has been centered on You for years now i would figure you’d Have this pretty sharp When expressing it even if you know if There was a sense of nervousness about Him okay i understand that but i don’t Get that either rich Couple more seconds here oh go ahead i Was just going to say oh at the Beginning As well he does the um the stereotypical Thing where somebody that’s not a very Good liar Tries to concoct the story because he Says oh i remember we were there and There was an axe there And then we would talk about faking a Ufo incident so what he’s done is Is tried to ground a lie in something Really common like I remember an axe and then we talked About the fake ufo Yeah weird weird transition you’re right That is Good hi good ear all right here we go Just 30 more seconds I you and travis together Hoaxed this yeah particularly the Travis’s brother blaine’s out there I believe that uh actually suspected That uh Uh dwayne was was part of it yeah i mean

He was his protector and uh And he was saying weird things on that Principle danish interview I have nothing i i don’t care at all for His life i know where he is i know that Was really Wrong that was really bizarre and i Thought all along that he was just Trying to uh i would just say Make himself believe that his brother Was okay yeah that’s what you had told Me That’s really it and then they just talk About nonsensical stuff After that so pretty interesting Why would it be now that he comes out And talks about this there have been so Many opportunities For him to come clean and maybe there’s A reason Uh that i’m just not familiar with or I’m not seeing for him to do this but You know why now Well when i was speaking to tyler about It last night and i asked him he said Well the ufo You you know ufos are the hot topic at The moment maybe it’s Maybe this guy’s coming out because he Just wants to be relevant but I mean it just seems weird for somebody To come out After all these years like you’re saying Dark already it’s

I mean these guys are did they have do We know if they’ve had a fallout I think they did ollie if you’d like i Can show people what the The tower looks like yes please he’s Rich Look it looks square i can’t imagine how You’re gonna make that thing look Rounded you’ll see Okay But watch here there look at this i mean Imagine that from Four miles away i i don’t get it man Maybe But if they said they saw it above Travis it’s like how does that come out To be above the dude You know and that’s what they drew I mean is that looking awful curious It’s Similar it is similar But the bottom is not illuminated And how are you if if they say he was Hit because that mean the whole thing Was Uh was him being hit by a beam of light How do you how do you do that from that Tower Right even with even i mean unless there Was a searchlight in it of some Well i think it says it in here let me See here well you guys are It it lit up uh really looks like the Cruise description this thing is

Beautiful it was solid wild this is what They said they saw Uh you could see window frames coming Down from it Michael steve pierce said and then There’s a frame in the middle of it It was like two cake pans on top of each Other Looks almost like that right let me see Kind of that thing in the middle would Split it would be the divider yep Uh it was more or less sort of golden White and that’s just what the panels Because it had a framework The bottom of it was reflective well you Wouldn’t be able to see that i don’t Think And it was looked like metal underneath They all Made a metal and covered in shiny clean Glass Osvaldo franco welcome to the show my Friend hey what’s up fellas how’s Everybody doing What’s up what’s up Aussie it looks like you get getting Prepared and ready to to launch your Channel With that green screen behind you uh Yeah i got my twitter up and i have my Channel i haven’t posted anything yet But Uh yeah it’s gonna be uh next couple Days

Brilliant mate awesome hey have you have You looked over this Uh this case of travis well the cape Obviously you know about the case of Travis swan but I’m trying to give myself a crash course On the new allegations As best as i can uh in the last oh maybe Since you spoke to me yesterday I mean are you seeing this that rich is Putting up on the screen now Yeah with the tower yeah I’m to me it’s still a bit of a stretch For me Now this is the thing the end Discrepancies to me That could be interesting we can check Those out we can verify that if that Those are real issues or not Uh this thing about the tower though it Still seems to me like a bit of a Stretch Like it’s the least tough man you know Yeah Of this whole thing it’s it’s it’s just A bit too much And uh to me it’s reminiscent of when They tried to debunk rendlesham forest And they tried to use the lighthouse Yeah yeah And then we had that we went around in Circles for years and years and years Until somebody finally Proved that it was impossible for it to

Be the lighthouse You know yeah so i I don’t know like this seems a bit Strange and then there’s other Uh factors involving the case You know uh i find like the the heavy Involvement of Uh phil class very telling As well um and that there’s There’s there’s more to this story that Isn’t Doesn’t jive with this version of things At this point you know i haven’t heard The the uh Uh the the walton recording yet uh Which i really want to hear and uh You know uh and this does merit Investigation we should see but Uh for right now it doesn’t seem like uh If this is what really happens there’s That to me there’s flaws in the argument But Uh we’ll see what happens Also when you say and thank you for the Super sticker elena Beautiful um and a very nice sticker Indeed Um you when you say you have not seen The recording and you talk about the Recording that rich just played Did you see that no the the one with With Travis himself i haven’t heard i heard The other one

Right so you’ve heard the one that’s Just been brought where It is it it’s mike speaking isn’t it i’m Right it’s mike his name is Good old mike yeah that was mike yeah You’ve heard that one Um it’s interesting what you What you’re saying about philip class Because when i had you Um on like one of the first times and You started Going on about this guy being poisonous Yeah he’s he’s really just like when all Is said and done And the history of this is out and you Can go to area 51 with your kids You know on a tour and you know we don’t Have a laugh about this we won’t be Laughing about that man that man is Pure evil like he destroyed good People’s lives to keep a terrible secret Out of curiosity has anyone come across A case that was similar to travis’s in Where somebody was struck by a beam Uh not you know levitated into the light But actually struck Forcefully thrown back no it’s common in Abductions That you get that’s common in abduction Cases yes And physical but to be To be thrown back like this though to be Thrown back You know it can happen but like that

I’ve like like i’ve from from what my Understanding Is uh not that that that that force Thing uh is unusual but that’s not uh Completely unheard of in ufology uh There are people that have had like you Know Encounters with like these literally Invisible forces like force fields or Whatever so i guess in theory Um one could knock you over but uh Not specifically no also travis did not Get lifted up in the air He got pushed down from this thing uh That everybody remembers the movie more Than they remember the real story Yeah in the real story that’s that Didn’t happen that’s something that was Always added afterwards like they they Had left When travis was on the ground and when They came back uh Travis was gone and so was the object Yeah uh Huh yeah yeah great bunch of friends There anyway That’s scary as [ __ ] i got all the if If osvaldo wants this and everybody else I could put the link to what i’m looking At here in the chat room because This gives you everything about the case It’s all right here so i can do that for You guys here And you guys can follow along um this is

From 2015 with ben hanson on sci-fi They went to the location uh yeah but That’s the other issue too Like if this is the case that means Stanton friedman did sloppy work It means richard dolan did sloppy work Meets ben hansen Former fbi did sloppy work you know That’s kind of like that’s also not like You know Like like like that that doesn’t uh If that happened that’s a that’s a major Like failure On behalf of ufo research that doesn’t Sit well with us No i think it’s again i don’t think That’s the likelihood of that that There’s a lot of people that would have This Screw up pretty badly for that however It’s not impossible Again we need to examine this and uh i’d Also like to see somebody try and Reenact this thing Because i mean honestly like that to Fake Listen it’s one thing to take some People into the forest and go and Meditate And you know throw flares out you know And say oh look there’s an Extraterrestrial You know it’s another thing to have this Like this this this object that’s

Supposed to have been Pretty close to them you know and you Like to fake that that’s like In 1970 what three it’s tough Yeah that’s really very tough as well Though yeah that’s tough now Uh you know and especially with like no Budget You know like that it would have been One thing it’s like i don’t know like The the government hired Uh uh uh travis walton to Pitch a story for them because they Wanted to create a ufo thing for some Reason That would have been one thing because The government has resources and all Sorts of other stuff This guy was like 23 year old redneck You know a logger Like that’s you know that’s kind of Like that that too is kind of like Odd okay throw this one out there So you you said i was there back in 1973 You know to to fake something like that It’d be so hard Yeah but so but now okay You you you fake something like that now You know i think Everybody would be like Hmm you know that’s that’s a ufo i’m Gonna stick around for that Back then i think people would [ __ ] Themselves

So even if if it’s from a distance And it they made that thing remotely Look like a ufo They’re all in the car maybe this it’s Got a bit of glare coming through the Windscreen Or whatever travis gets out he runs And he and he looks at this thing and This thing happens quite quickly And then they all bolt off I i just wonder how much These guys i would like i would like to See All the guys speak about this some are They all alive Yes two are dead But how would they have orchestrated This exactly wherein you know these guys That are gonna be driving up there Are gonna look up their uh the window Here in the car and they’re going to see What Appears to be a ufo where this tower is Unless dressed it up in some sort of you Know prop Um i think you know most people if you Something like that coming from A construct your first thought isn’t Extraterrestrials but they’re reporting That they saw a craft So if it was a hoax i want to know how They orchestrated this Wherein the visuals were compelling and Enough to you know form an opinion right

There in the moment the reaction was What they was supposed to be and next You know travis is laying in the woods On the ground all by himself for you Know stage two I i just it it’s really hard for me to Believe how they did that without any Explanation Does anybody know if they were hunters Lee just hold that thought one second oh Osvaldo as well though uh a few people Are saying in the chat that your audio Is a little bit Low um so if you wouldn’t mind trying to To get it up a bit Uh that’s what she said um that’d be Great Sorry sorry sorry mate i just noticed That somebody said oh this is a little Bit low I was just going to say if if anybody Knows if they were hunters as well I mean you talk about people at work But who knows like there’s an easter egg That maybe there were maybe there Weren’t no but but the thing is if you If your people are working and living in These Areas i don’t I just don’t believe that if you source If you saw that In the sky or in the trees I i don’t think you’d make that mistake You can’t you can’t tell me that they

Hadn’t been in Forests at night time or coming towards Night time And seen their like fire towers before You can’t tell me that if they’re Working in there especially if they’re Doing a dangerous job That they wouldn’t know where those Points were anyway because Realistically it’s if something goes Terribly wrong They’re your points of like emergency Contact It doesn’t make sense that people That would be embedded in that Environment would make a mistake And for the uh for these two people To do this trick you have to guess What the actions of all those other People were one of those people gets out Of that car That jokes like it’s over it doesn’t Work then And i i i i don’t i you couldn’t predict That Yeah no that had to come off perfectly Like that’s like Like like what are you a magician to Like do you understand that some type of David copperfield type You know like like trick this is not Really you’re employing cameras When it comes to yeah that sort of Illusion yeah exactly yeah yeah you

You’re creating an actual optical Illusion that works like that i mean Like if that were the case how come Travis isn’t like a An imagineer at disney or something you Know like like Even if it was just lights coming from The fire tower like let’s say there’s no There’s no trickery involved It’s just a case of excuse me It’s just a case of um having something There And fooling people into thinking it’s Something else Bless you thank you um You’d have had to lay seeds all through The day otherwise you Like like you say before you just go oh That’s a light you wouldn’t instantly go To That’s an alien trying to abduct travis So they’d have had to do those little Things that you see um Like people like what’s his name the the British guy over here that does the mind Tricks What’s his name ellie help Yeah yeah you would have to be doing the Little things that he does All the way like building up to his Tricks by the You know embedding the idea and planting The seed of what’s gonna happen you’d Have had to be doing that

Probably yeah i mean like does anybody Have any reason to believe that travis Walton is a world-class mentalist In addition to you know being alone yeah Right Seems like he barely has a pulse Sometimes he’s very little He’s like he’s low-key yeah no like he He’s like yeah we don’t have guys like Him in new york city You know right um yeah very like Different guy Introverted well he’s also very Intelligent he was i was actually When i i spent two days with him uh and Uh and his buddy that he’s having a Falling out with me And um travis is really intelligent The other guy not so much that’s another Thing that Should be brought up But if you you know when you’re the Intelligent one with a group of friends You know it’s quite easy to manipulate Those friends Yeah but i i guess so but like dude it Would have Like like he didn’t come like he Like intelligent yes but not like like Machiavellian Like you know villainy did not you know It did not come off of the guy either You know there there’s somebody else You know that i could mention that

That’s kind of like that but Uh that’s another episode um But no uh like i don’t know There’s just there’s two like like it It’s just There’s too much with this new Idea that this it hasn’t worked out yet Um like i said before i would love to See somebody find a tower that is Similar to That of that era uh use technology from That era And see if we could uh uh recreate that See if that would be A convincing you know uh hoaxed ufo Especially one that was supposedly up Close i I really don’t think that they like they Just like this It’s too much and and how many miles Away was that thing like in the Spotlight hit travis From that many miles away and it looked Like an actual beam hit him from like Four miles You you’d need something like the um Old-fashioned you know when you when you See like old-fashioned prison breaks Where the like the the watchtower lights Are on people Yeah four miles like there’s just that’s That’s for me For square law it’s weird yes yeah i Know

It doesn’t make sense it does it doesn’t I mean like i must say maybe they had a Uh uh some type of magnifying glass but You need one hell of a large one and They probably have to go and have it Made So already that’s already expensive you Know so like Like like like how much of these and Honestly the amounts of money That these guys are making like they Would have to pay off a bunch of other People Too so like what is it everybody gets 200 at the end of the day It’s really not like for like shits and Giggles just to fool people it doesn’t It doesn’t make sense and and the thing Is A lot of trouble came out of this too For that You know um people like literally you Know Like change their names and moved away You know to try to hide from this [ __ ] Which is which tends to be what when People have real life Ufo encounters they tend to want to run Screaming Oh go ahead you know that in my Experience they want to run streaming Uh it’s not for everybody just going Back to The the beam of light i was just gonna

Say they say it was Probably a searchlight in the tower Okay so if it was a searchlight for it To hit Him travis would have had to know Exactly exactly That’s why if anybody else got out of The truck it would have blown it I don’t i don’t buy it i really don’t Think that it’s fake i’m telling you i Don’t know but There’s so much here and then i’m Reading it and The only person who seems to be changing Their story is mike It’s like this guy has it out for travis I think Yeah no like this is kind of yeah this This this is kind of All of this is odd you know all of this Is odd and the explanation is weird Yeah and uh honestly this is not the First time That uh this guy was used to try to Sabotage your store Right you know there’s a history of this In fact there’s there’s there’s Correspondence Between him and uh uh class Concerning this yes Yes so like you know so we you know and Class again is like To do just an episode on phillip class And and

And the types of shenanigans and Chicanery That the ufo community has been Historically victimized By you know there’s like we have enemies We have Real enemies you know uh people like Class People like um what’s his face the the Uh the guy from uh Uh my name No um the other misinformation guide Uh oh richard dodie yes you know like And that’s not all dude we like listen Intelligence agencies try to screw us That sounds crazy but it’s true and They’ve been playing you know A lot of weird games and in fact they it Seems like they’re continuing to do so There’s Uh now uh rumors Circulating that uh uh there Are parts of the government that are Still trying to fight uh these Disclosure efforts and that there is Indeed there seems to be some type of Civil war Inside the intelligence agencies as to What what to do about this Um and uh perhaps this is a part of that You know this is an odd time for this to Start coming up And and and again the story It’s like that whole thing with the i’m

Sorry the whole thing with the Watchtower It’s like they’re trying to put uh a Sheet on a mattress that’s too big And the mac and the shoot is too small It’s really a stretch That’s how i almost imagine you might be Right about a sheet You know a massive sheet over over the Tower yeah it’s just not going to fit It just does not you know what i’m Saying unless they have more data Unless they can reenact that and pull it Off you know then then i might say well You know what You know and unless there’s some real Significance uh something in the In the the uh in discrepancies allegedly In the story or Uh you know unless there’s something Something significant this doesn’t seem Like It’s that big of a deal what if you over Illuminated the tower so whoever’s Inside the tower You know lights a thousand candles And well no no yeah but you’ve got a Thousand candles but you know You have to carry that whatever it is You have to carry up that that tower You know and then there’s also the fact That yeah if you stayed in that tower For five days You you mean that the the the people

That were looking there were a lot of People looking nobody Thought about let’s go and check the Watchtower how about let’s see Where he was taking the watchtower and See if we can find travis That would be one of the first things i Would do They didn’t even use dogs to search for Travis only in the movie But not okay that’s that’s fine but i’m Talking about i’m just saying Like oh i know for a missing guy and you Had a watchtower You would climb the watchtower yourself To see if you can find the missing guy They never did yes because mike directed Him away from that He misled everybody as what what Happened That also like that it’s bullcrap There’s a lot of common sense i know the Forest i don’t know but You’re right about it because why don’t The cops just do what they’re supposed To do Check everything right you know and Unless they but at the same time again That would have to be a lot of people to Be in on it and then like that that that Two grand check just does even in The 70s doesn’t go far enough for that But imagine how many people Are are keeping things silent a secret

And we still don’t know About it so secrets can be held usually It’s Usually there’s uh you know a little Threat that goes with it if you’re in The government you know you can’t say Anything you’re gonna lose all this and You’ll you know you could get killed Um but here it’s just guys you know it’s Just dudes and People have emotions and relationships Change and For them to trust each other this much i Guess they had a big bond back then but Wouldn’t they think it would turn around And bite him in the butt i mean nobody Else but mike Is the problem here and i think mike has It out for him that’s what i really Think reading Everything here as we’re talking uh Nothing makes sense to me it’s just Ridiculous Nonsensical sometimes unrealistic ways Of things happening Okay the fact is that they also come From a mormon community this tends not To be Something that they’re into my wife i Forgot about that That was questioned was so nonchalant About whereas You know travis might be i think even in One statement i can’t remember which

Family member had said it They said something along the lines of He knows where he is i know where he is He’s fine So what does that say there’s one way to Explain it Possibly uh back in the day All right uh travis walton now talks About the fact that he’s had Other ufo experiences that were up close Uh what a lot of other people don’t know Is So did betty and barney hill after the The the Events of an interrupted journey Um and the reason being that These things weren’t discussed is Because hynek and some of the other guys That were involved Uh did not want to bend credulity they Felt that they had already like they Were already trying to confront the Public But yeah your government’s lying about This there’s these little people there In these ships they come Down they abduct people and they bring Them back The idea that this repeats would be Would seem like too much for people Though obviously this is a scam even Though Like you know and this is a secret that Was kept until the 80s

You know until like bud hopkins and then Uh eventually john mack Started uh you know bringing out the Fact that this is you know A recurrent phenomenon is Transgenerational Um they say that travis was always in The ufos and his family was in the ufos Uh well if travis is indeed an Experienced sir And people that are actual physical that One of the things that happens with All of those people is that it is a Uh it’s a hereditary trait there’s no Meditations there’s no app that’s going To give this to you It’s a hereditary trait it’s passed down Bloodlines Um there’s actually a dna test that’s Actually being made that’s going to Be come out at some point uh where you Can actually test for people that have These Uh anomalies or the people that like you Know that that Or or have a more likelihood of Of having these types of abduction Experiences because of the genetic Quirks Um if Privacy this makes perfect sense that Travis would have had other experiences And his family would have known And they would have probably been more

Like you know relax They’ll bring him back because when Families when this runs in families That’s how it’s like right He’ll be great and that’s the thing a Lot of people don’t talk about that Because there’s not a lot of People that have had these experiences Most of the people that say that they’ve Had these experiences have not Like i said you know and most of them That have I tell you try to run screaming from This In hopes that they can outrun it and They always come back because there is No Outrunning rich do you have the other Clip Of the um i think it’s the guy speak Speaker the movie guy I can get it actually erica luke’s is Here In your chat by the way that’s from her Channel Oh this is from erica’s channel yeah Well no that first one i think yeah It’s from orion adventures but it’s okay To play it Okay well erica rachel send me the link For this and i will put it in the Description but If you won’t mind uh pinning that video In the chat so people can go

Subscribe to every erica and uh check Out our work that’d be great Yeah a second to pull it up here So yeah the the other guy ryan Um is is that is there a phone call I believe with him and travis Am i making that up i really don’t know There might be I’ll tell you they’re weird yes i tell You what Um on erica’s channel and i’ll get it Here There’s seven hours of this discussion Where They talk about everything in detail and Of course i’ll have ryan on monday but If you guys You know want to check it out after this I’m sure i’m sure you can hear it there If it is there i don’t know if there’s a Call with travis I i know there’s an inner couple of Interviews with travis talking about This especially jimmy church Yep what do you think though If you think back to the story And you think back to the time 1975 And what travis described When he boarded that craft about these Little Grey men in these little uh slick Like skinny bob-like suits and then You get these classic nordic grays that Look like

People for like they look like abba yeah They look like A 1970s band And then he enters a room that has a Device With buttons on it you know like a Remote Almost like a remote control Actually when i spoke to him um I try to get details out of people to See if i can like Fish around and see if like something is A bit off or not And uh i asked travis about uh The controls at the uh the chair And uh i was like is was it a Touchscreen Or was it like you know switches and it Was like no it’s buttons And he said it was kind of old-fashioned But that’s what it was I’m quoting yeah but he says that now But back then was it old-fashioned to Describe buttons No that was you know that was you know What i’m saying It was it you know he he basically Described And i said it i’ll say it again he Described an upper band You know he described he described these Nordic Blondes um Uh and you know a chair with

Buttons on it you know it’s the the one Thing that was compelling about that And was a bit ahead of its time was kind Of the fact that it was just see-through You know when he walked into that room This is very concerning his technology Because it sounds analog to me And for some reason many accounts of People saying We were playing with technology that was Vacuum tube uh Uh centered in which you know they were Creating some quantum fields in respect To some of the material and technology They’re using i’m not gonna cite some of The projects now you guys can look them Up but that being said let not let us Not forget Was poorly a human in some sort of Space hell that led him away after his Freakout While he was on this craft so to me and I don’t know how much this has actually Been addressed as we look at travis Walton we automatically To say aliens you know that’s all it was It sounds to me like some Something in line with one of those Black projects wherein the Extraterrestrials may have been working With us in some way shape or form uh you Know maybe it wasn’t just a species of Extraterrestrials that was behind this Maybe it was a whole

Government uh very curious though that That again that technology Sounds very good to me they’re also Going to explain why they might have Healed them like maybe that’s part of The deal like oh like you know Like oh [ __ ] we have one of them [ __ ] Now we gotta take him back to the base And make sure he’s not dead because we Have to honor our treaty You know like catch and release possibly Rich shall i bring us back in the house Are you playing are you are you putting Something I am uh just dropping the link to Erica’s thing Okay i’ll put us back in the game tell Me if you want i didn’t know if you Yeah i didn’t know if you needed it Anymore yeah well keep it down below So if you if you if you sure For us to see um Do you know what i’m saying though when It comes to And i’m not just talking about the Travis case i’m talking about a lot of People that talk about Things way back when ufos they’ve seen The shape of them They all this it always seems to be The shape of the ufo goes with the style Of the generation The the story of travis on the ship Goes with the style of the the 70s you

Know it Really does i find that very interesting At the same time like our technology Constantly changes like a car From 1970 is not like a car from now Or a car from 10 years ago or 10 years Before that or 10 years before that I mean no idea that their technology our Designs Should remain stagnant but their Technology mirroring ours would be odd That too unless we’re ripping our stuff Off See that to me the kind of that’s too Easy of an explanation No no but as you got you guys know i Always think that there might be Something Um more otherworldly Than uh like nuts and bolts crafts about These things And this that would hint more towards The Alezando saying demons thing wouldn’t it Because If you had something that was Interdimensional and for one of better Words Magic then it could appear to us In a in a state that we would relate to More Well i said well it’s like asmos said That any significant technology to a Primitive people would look like magic

You know uh the same way like if you Could find a way to send a working tv Set To ancient rome you know they would Build a temple around it You know they would worship it uh You know until the christians came and Broke it yeah you know Always the nordic abductions as well Never sit with me right It’s always like there’s there’s always Some sort of like Almost fantasy element to it where you Can imagine some drunk guy in a bar Going yeah then i was adopted by a Spaceship And then there was like these seven Blonde girls there and of course they All wanted to [ __ ] me Yeah yeah no that that’s that element of That too Do you not remember my ronnie dawson uh Interview lee Yes dude i need to get that guy back on He he he he cracks me up But maybe he’s telling the truth you Know maybe maybe catwoman did Fight maybe kaplan really did turn his Penis into a giant noodle And and i’ll create with him Apparently you know but this is this is The thing ronnie dawson for example You know he’s he’s going out to Conferences

And he’s doing talks and he’s got a book About his noodle penis His very long noodle penis that was Changed into a long noodle to procreate With these aliens I mean you can’t make this [ __ ] where You can but you must be [ __ ] bonkers [Laughter] His wife stands by him his wife stands By him That he had an affair with catwoman Listen that’s not unusual with ufology There I remember like this is like back in the 90s Uh we had this guy and Uh he was clearly mentally ill and Uh his wife would come with him on these Uh these meetings and Uh he like you know it’s very sad but It’s not unusual they’re Like you know like sometimes two crazy People you know Get together or like there’s other cases Too there was a uh I remember there was this fat woman and This skinny gay dude and they used to Say that they were married And that they uh came from the Underground city of telos You know and inside of mount shasta and They they You know and they they like there’s a Lot of weird couples

Like in ufology this isn’t like you know Uh uh all that unusual Unfortunately like serial killers Yes oh yeah killers always find each Other it’s really weird Birds of a [ __ ] well you know they’re That’s an interesting thing to think About though i mean some of the Supporting characters In uh these stories if they’re very Close to the person Obviously they’re biased number one i Mean it’s odd that she supports the idea That he had an affair with catwoman so Clearly something happened there but it May not be what they describe And yet that’s what they’re you know Putting forth as the Actual event uh listen i’m not gonna sit Here and say there aren’t people out There that Have some sort of imagination and it’s Not necessarily to blame Uh maybe there’s again a reference some Trauma that happened you know there’s a Peeling over effect wherein they replace One memory for another they then believe That false memory So it becomes real to them uh there may Be instances Like that not necessarily even in its Entirety but you know in subcategories Within these stories Maybe there was one aspect that had to

Fit you know what i mean yeah exactly so You know there is that element there at Play unfortunately and You know as convincing as some of these People are they are Not everybody but they have a charm to Them and uh You know with the right words and the Sharp tongue you know you can pretty Much convince A majority of people who aren’t Critically thinking about something and Want something To believe very easily oh yes no the Problem with ufology is that Like the biggest problem with upology And a lot of the troubles that we have Is because of sciences Reluctance to actually deal with this This is changing the last couple weeks But the fact is is listen when there’s a Vacuum It gets filled whenever you try to ban Something or make something forbidden You know it still exists and when you When you Try to take you know a society’s sight Away from that People get sucked in and and the problem Is a lot of the people Who it takes up that space are usually Bad people It’s like you followed you has the same Problem that legal drugs do

Or or alcohol during prohibition you Know you make something illegal Bad dudes go in there and they run it And then they and they run like you know And they can Become very powerful and become big Problems you know because they are Running around unregulated You know there’s nobody bringing you Know like there’s no Uh no rules there’s no regulations and Uh that’s the same situation with you Apology We they tried to ban it and all these Bad people came In and uh and and that’s what we have Now we have You know a field that is 90 nonsense You know ninety percent it’s an Interesting perspective nonsense Pardon me i said that’s an interesting Perspective Just to see it play out that way and you Bring in the the prohibition as a Reference It’s excuse me it’s interesting man That’s the same thing and then that’s How you get the mafias Or the drug cartels you know or uh You know basically unscrupulous Individuals that are profiting off of Other people’s ignorance You know when it’s unnecessary you know A little bit of

Science in fact we’ll clear that up Right quick But you know good luck getting it after After doing your show uh where you had i Sorry i forgot the guy’s name Scott brown yeah after speaking to scott And i know you’d already spoke to him Quite a little bit before that Um but like me you don’t like to uh You don’t like to blow your load before You actually go on a show um So you you kind of like you saved Everything for that show He told you everything and i saw your Face You looked like you were like [ __ ] The bed where is where’s your head now In this You know i don’t know um i’m still gonna Talk to ryan gordon the director He said uh that he wants just to talk to Me privately So we’re not gonna he’s not coming on Monday but i’ll i’ll reiterate what he Tells me Just no more he doesn’t want to do any More public appearances i guess Um but he does have to uh make some Corrections on what scott brown had Given me so I don’t know what those errors were Could you just let the people know who Ryan is The film guy

That’s all i know that’s all i know is That he’s a A movie-making guy so you’re going to Find out more Yeah i’ll find out more yeah yeah um But yeah uh you you asked me why i made My face On and how i feel about now look a lot Of a lot of moving parts here Would have to fall in perfectly for this To work i Really don’t my my heart tells me that It’s a lie that’s not a hoax i believe It really happened Yeah i agree with rich uh 100 uh like It’s not enough here here for me to To dissuade me at this point you know Though like Again if they bring it you know I’ll give them credit for it but at this Point it doesn’t seem like that This is not enough there’s not enough Here for the drama that has been Brought up however if you look if you go To erica luke’s Channel and look at the interview the The most recent one that With ryan gordon he actually goes on Location And everything gets it all on video so You can see the angles and everything Rich if you send me the link to that i Will drop in the description I already did oh yeah yeah in the

Description okay i’ll send it to you Yeah Because i can’t give the chat um What if this did get i don’t know how it Would get proven Um because it’s just been years now But if this if there was the evidence Was just So compelling that this was a hoax The guy that it was in the tower risked You know getting into a lot of [ __ ] and He would get into a lot of [ __ ] Right by saying that rich if he actually Did that because he works for All right you saying um but because he Was for the government That he would get into a hell of a lot Of bother For doing something like that um you cut Out on one part you’re talking about Ryan No i’m talking about the guy that the if It was a hoax the guy in the tower Yeah that did this obviously he he works For The american government that’s that’s Yeah you know in the parks You know that stuff yeah he would get Into a lot a lot of bother Yes oh yeah my question is though If it came out and people did admit to Doing stuff And it was so overwhelmingly The evidence was just there and it was

Like what have you done How bad would this affect the field of Ufology It’s as bad as it gets i disagree I i think i think that given the Progress that we’ve made It would be a drop in the bucket and Considering the stuff that is happening And the stuff that’s About to hit uh it’s almost irrelevant i Think a lot of these old ufo cases Unless something Like really major develops uh will Uh probably become anecdotal You know in favor of like you know Bigger things that have Much more solid proof behind them well Let’s hope the government And lou and everybody actually brings Evidence this time So as far as uh travis and this the Reason i’m saying that Is because a lot of people put their Hearts and souls into this guy And backed him and a lot of people would Be really Hurt you know major people major people In the apology authorities Like like stanton friedman dude No less than richard dolan no less than You know That’s again that’s that’s a lot of Again there’s a lot of like people that Aren’t known for screwing up that bad

Screwing up terribly all at the same Time But there is another aspect to it though Isn’t that is that When in this field even people you’ve Got Um leica doland um or stanton friedman There’s a certain element when you’re Talking about things where there’s Very few facts And a lot of circumstantial evidence There’s a certain element of that Becomes like a a larp to it where You want it to be real jeremy it’s it’s More it’s more interesting Than travis walton was abducted than it Was for him to have just been underneath A lamp and It’s a good story though isn’t it Exactly yeah yeah It’s a good story believe it yeah Um so i think i don’t think it’s it Wouldn’t so much be that these guys Had massive fuck-ups it’s just the fact That they wanted to believe You know that’s the reason no You’re a hard-nosed science researcher Scientific resources You’re still a scientist research in Pseudoscience at the end of the day That’s pseudoscience you’re only having The point is you’re supposed to know Better You’re supposed to be more disciplined

Than that you’re not supposed to have Your feelings But you’ve got no evidence involved in That that for them to have Messed up like that that’s a fundamental Failure but even though that started Academic pride though Yeah that’s just academic pride that Gets wounded how much because Really that you know academic prizes i Understand the significance can be a Failure But look how controversial the mj12 Documents are That’s stanton friedman the mj12 stuff Yes yeah i mean that that splits Everyone right down the middle whether That’s complete [ __ ] or The smoking good [ __ ] so well If you can but if you have a story right In front of you Again you got to get you guys got to Look at you know what Is in front of these people and way of Research they’re going to do the best They can with whatever story presented With So you know nothing comes out that was Tightly tucked around the corner wherein It’s almost seamless You can’t tell this person’s lying uh You know based on the research Everything’s really tight But it was this one that’s being

Withheld all of a sudden comes out and Just Unspools everything you can’t feel like An idiot you can only say oh I had what i had to go on i researched It to the very best of my ability Whether scientifically or actually or Whatever You know oh that depends on what it is That depends on what that bit is though That’s because if It’s something that should have been Like like like Obvious from go you know then that’s an Issue sorry Sorry awesome michael i don’t know if You know this but your connection Is absolutely terrible you you keep Looking like you’re having a stroke You keep having a stroke um [Laughter] And i’m sorry if everything anybody’s Had it’s fantastic But it’s that’s it It bro your voice is breaking up a Little bit sometimes Is your internet connection good No it sucks let me try something i’ll be Right back it’s absolutely [ __ ] dude i’ll Connection actually broke up the swear Words there yeah that was perfect Freaking youtube um let’s not forget About travis real quick he came back

Hydrated and healthy Um yes the aliens could have even saved His life right didn’t uh People think he got maybe killed by that Beam They don’t know yeah so i don’t know man Um Gone for five days they couldn’t find Them there was no traces of them so How did even if somebody took them to That tower i mean they would have Seen tracks you know people out there All kinds of people out there looking For tracks and signs Even though even if mike was you know Pushing them away from when somebody is Missing you check everywhere Yeah yeah i mean this is basic common Sense and Especially like these are people from The forest you know what i’m saying for Us it might be really really hard Much harder to do that but those people Have experience with that but they Didn’t do everything with their lives There But they didn’t do everything something That doesn’t Like you know then again it could be Incompetence on the part of their you Know maybe they had really a shitty Police department over there uh that Happens too Was anyone arrested am i right in

Thinking that there was people looked Into No because they no was that different Because there was an abduction It wasn’t the worst where somebody was Looked into for murder until They turned up not drowning i thought That i thought that was their side so That’s okay that was in the film wasn’t It In the film it was like almost they was Going to get locked up Right okay and that’s not that’s not Real that’s not what happened in this in The story Well no yeah that’s what happened they Would have got locked up Well you see this is the thing i’m Thinking if even if you’re in on this Joke Or hoax and if all of a sudden the Police are looking into you And you go what the [ __ ] would happen if Something happened to travis after we Left him I don’t care how certain you are in the Plan you’d be there thinking I could get locked away for murder here Oh yeah especially when He’s a 16 year old boy who lied about His age to get to work Yeah who is now the guy who was uh An adult trying to you know cast Aspersions on the story uh

I’m sorry dude like like dude that’s the First person to crack is the kid Yeah traditionally you know uh that’s The easiest nut to crack Oh hang on so the guy that’s saying this Is a hoax now was he 16 years old at the Time yeah he lied about his age together This is [ __ ] a [ __ ] Like yeah i know i’m i’m not having that 16 year old kid could be the guy that Was left there to To carry the lie on his own Yeah that’s that’s again this doesn’t Make a whole lot This it’s dude it’s a crappy plan and if It were and then it worked out Spectacularly that’s That ben’s credulity it almost makes More sense that he just got abducted What if travis is watching this now Going yes come on you tell it boys tell It tell it yeah That’s it that’s it that’s it he could Be Yeah well you know he gave me my two Hundred dollars out of the Two thousand seven hundred dollar check There was so much in that film that was Just I mean travis said he he was he was Pissed off about the film Oh yeah no because they they they Totally pissed in the story that’s not

What happened at all What happened to travis was much more Interesting you know But they they it to me at least and i Think that most people that know about Is much more interesting dude he got Taken to a base He saw other ships parked in a base he Saw two different types of Extraterrestrial Instead what they did was they took his Story and they turned it into watered Down whitley strieber Uh alien rape porn yeah if i had him Nothing to do with uh anything if i had Him on i would ask him the question i Would say If you were on do you reckon if you just Stayed on that table You would have been probed you know Well no he was sitting up he would say He was lying on his back If he was gonna get probed i imagine He’d be on the other side It’s always about the probing in it well That’s where all the nutrients and all The waste goes everything you eat Of course yeah that’s the story that the The email probe is to Uh to test uh Pollution and nutrition yeah Yeah that’s not uncommon no we do the Same thing

Yeah in fact we pay a lot of money for The same [ __ ] yeah Same [ __ ] yeah good choice no but it is True uh Yeah i i don’t know man i think i think The if travis Wasn’t abducted it would suck but Again nobody checked the trees right Because the trees had abnormal growth I guess they found out right that yes There’s certain people that are trying To Uh say no but that’s a huge dude that’s A huge and just in that area Yeah and that’s not the only and that Happens in other ufo cases in force All over the world yeah right so that’s Another like that’s Typical of something and that wasn’t Common knowledge in 73. Right yeah but also what was it your Book what was it your boy was Saying rich i mean i’m speaking like Lena with your boy Um you’re lad um what was it your ladle Was was saying um Scott is it scott scott that came on the Channel yeah yeah He said that these these rings were Being tested by amateurs and also There was a convenient fire And no it no you said it was quite Convenient isn’t that cool yeah There was a fire that uh destroyed a lot

Of the evidence of the trees No but that that that was like a forest Fire it wasn’t like a localized thing Like that Right right it was a forest that’s a Problem we’re having in america quite a Bit actually yeah i know but Unfortunately probably just happened Because that happens yeah that was going To happen anyway People eventually yeah yeah yeah It is interesting they can still test Those trees if they’re still there So i don’t know i don’t know man maybe Uh i should go back up there would take Somebody with me who can do that Well there’s no supposedly samples so Like you know something like There must have been something with the Samples they took from the initial stuff Yeah you know like who wasn’t handling That was that loving good That was handling that i don’t remember That sounds familiar richie If you go up there you need to try and Recreate that see if you can get into One of those wait a second Wait a second i forgot i don’t live in Arizona anymore Oh no you don’t i’m thinking it’s only Four hours away No i can’t go well i can but it would be Expensive Um rich ends up walking around

Disneyland going There’s no way you could have faked this Here [Laughter] I don’t know if dark hour can get back On he must be yeah He’s getting there is he getting there Yeah His connection was uh a little bit The thing about the trees is that if the Ufo was hovering there and this could Debunk This whole thing if they somebody goes Out there that there’s advanced Growth on the inside of those Of the bark so if the ufo was in between Trees all the bark that was closest to The ufo Would have grown twice as much out on One side would have bored out on one Side Twice as much as it would the past 90 Years combined So there’s evidence there yeah and i Think it is Uh living good or that guy you said that That was him Yeah that was him So that means that there’s that that That definitely means that There’s samples somewhere that that like Love and good was no joke Uh like this was not like some dude that Like you know

Far from a hobbyist this was like the Man yeah uh like if you’re traditional Scientist That stuff is somewhere yeah so even if We don’t have the if we don’t have the Even if it was burnt to a crisp and all That’s left is the roots of the tree of That some are their samples and these Samples determine something from them Big time so david uh i know you’re Watching this Uh now uh he spent some time with travis You are welcome to come on i don’t know If he will because he doesn’t like to Show his face Um he’s just He didn’t even have to have the camera On but he spent Quite a bit of time with he actually got Do you remember when i interviewed ray Hernandez Yeah yeah david hooked me up with ray um Cool So he’s here i would you know i should Have asked ray to come on He probably would have done uh but i Can’t remember what ray said about Travis i think he said he was an [ __ ] i i could be putting words into Ray’s mouth then but i i I don’t if he liked him or not or was That what was that People that have had like their stories About people

You know people are strange and honestly Like like i don’t know if travis looks To be a a celebrity necessarily You know like you know maybe like he Says he wishes that this had never Happened And maybe he is yeah i’m just i’m just Looking at some stuff that david sent me Now Um michael Is he back oh he’s is he back No let me see what’s going on he’s Got to be listening michael i if you’re There let me know what’s up It is uh it is a very Touchy case right now i feel sorry for Travis in a way though because the guy It seems like every year somebody’s Coming after him I i don’t know why oh he won’t come on But he’s just shown me his travis sent Him his book and it’s all signed inside And uh Yeah he’s uh he spent some time with him But i don’t if i don’t if he If he if he liked him or not I i think i remember the interview that I had with david He was saying that the guy’s a little Bit of a an [ __ ] Um he felt like that um I could be wrong that might have been Ray that said that i can’t remember i’ve Slept

Since then um but I mean if he when you know if you’re Telling the story over and over and over And over and over and over and over and Over and over and you’re thinking i need To keep retelling this story even though I know i’m telling the truth Maybe you might become a bit of an [ __ ] You know if you are telling the truth About rep and you are repeating yourself Over and over again it would start To i think it started to to great on you A little bit I don’t think so that depends on the Person Yeah it does yeah if you’re an Intensely private person and you get Drafted into this Okay also so if you have to tell your Story over and over say You know you start to become and i’m Sure you will i hope you do but you Start to Become extremely well known in the ufo Community you had a great Sighting when you were a kid if you Started to tell that story over and over Again And everybody was everybody’s just Putting doubt on what you saw and Telling you that you know you didn’t see That you blah blah blah and they were Questioning your question your question

You Constantly have to tell that story over And over again Would you not get a little bit pissed Off Of course it’s called being a you follow Person you know That’s like you know it’s not just your Story it’s everybody’s story You’re tired of repeating it over and Over and over again like you know like Like dude like i i uh since i was a boy Dude Like you know like this happened i Remember the first time i got ufo Fatigue i was like 14. You know because i got sick of talking About the same old [ __ ] You know i can imagine that that could Be even more of an issue like you know If you’re like a celebrity you know or Or or i don’t know if he’s a celebrity More like he’s you know Famous for you know the situation Uh you know uh And like you know like and again like it Depends on the temperament of the person You know completely like you know some People can you know Can do this other people can’t and in Fact Most people can’t i think that’s one of The reasons why most people don’t talk About their ufo experiences

Yeah that’s a good point people being Around Like there’s listen there’s a lot more People that want to have this experience Then have this experience in one hour’s Experience A whole lot more uh like you know like You know people would be like wow that Happened to me i would tell everybody No you wouldn’t definitely know what Happened Yeah it does and when i first met travis I got the impression he didn’t want to Be bothered Um because we were at the phoenix lights Event whatever and he just Would look down if he made eye contact With him or turn away Because he can tell the look in people’s Eyes that they’re coming to talk to him And He’s going to have to talk to them you Know for 20 minutes oh you were the guy Who was abducted and Yeah obviously you know i could get it i Mean I can see it in his eyes it’s the same Story the same Questions the same jokes yeah yeah yeah Decade and decade out Yeah i understand it you know like but That could be true of anything you know Like i i I get i bet those days will smith you

Know like hates being talked about Told how much people love fresh prince Of bel-air oh yeah You know or or or or name a celebrity You know so let’s just Analyze something here out of these guys That That are next to my um extremely Attractive face Out of these guys here the top guy is Mike i’m pretty sure that is mike Yeah these are the guys how long have They known travis Well i don’t think they knew him that Long but they’ve worked together but How long have mike known travis they’re Best friends So that’s what i thought am i wrong on That yeah They were busy my recollection is that They all like that i think he’s right About that too They’re work buddies i think there’s Like like one or two of them Uh uh were lifelong and we know travis’s Brother was involved Yeah but uh i don’t think like i know That the uh The uh the guy with the criminal record Was moved Yeah that bit was true about the movie And another thing that was true about The movie Was that he he was close to mike

It was it was actually seven people But okay mike rogers um his brother Dwayne was a high school friend of Travis’s that’s how they knew each other I just read it yeah but the other guy’s Rich How long had he known them from how long Have they known him Yeah the other guy um steve pearce um Was 17. he was only a few weeks with the Crew John willett or however you say it he Was easygoing it was Allen’s sidekick ex-navy so kind of knew But he knew alan um childhood friend of Mike’s was ken Peterson he was a quiet guy alan dallas Uh the guy who you know had the temper Or whatever He was on the crew since the summer and He had a history of fighting ex-navy guy And dwayne smith Uh john’s friend from phoenix only three Days on the crew So and then let’s see uh yeah that’s it Uh they real re i mean a couple of People knew each other Three of them did and the other ones Just got the job So not long they didn’t know travis that Long so our other things that Scott brown’s all the more of a reason Why that’s not a coordinated effort I know yeah well it wouldn’t be see it’s

It’s mike Dwayne and travis those three that put The hoax together And uh that and the other five didn’t Know about it that’s why they all passed The lie detector test because They didn’t know they just said what They saw So that’s how that’s the story we’re Being told you know so here’s the thing Here though with with me right now this This this That i can’t seem to get out of my head The The one guy that is saying that this Was a hoax is the guy that knew travis The longest he knew He knew travis threw his friend Through his brother dwayne so yeah he Knew him the longest For a long time as scott brown was Saying On your show that these guys had they’d Done stuff together that what Did they say at one point they were Running through the forest Apparently from a ufo um No he was saying that travis and dwayne Used to run around the forest making Believe they were That’s the one chased by you they were Playing basically Us we can’t ignore that fact though the Fact that this guy that that scott

On rich’s show hip cups Said that mike Was telling them that they’ve been into Ufos For years now What i want to see i want to see travis Speak about this and say mike is doing This because X y and z or whatever you know And i was what what you know what i want To see rich because if someone was Calling me Out on something that i’d seen or Something that all of us had witnessed If i was travis in this situation I’d be saying okay let’s let’s arrange An interview Let’s speak together dude like dude when You’re when you get Called out on something you can’t you Say to my face You say this [ __ ] to my face you get Pissed off this This uh well i won’t dignify this with a Response Yes okay if he’s if he’s pissed he needs To he needs to have it out with mike Yeah exactly i i i totally agree with That For the world to see but isn’t it Interesting it’s not happening right now And it should have already and And maybe it’s because mike’s telling The truth and travis doesn’t i’m just

Saying i’m not saying That’s true but that’s exactly why we’re Doing this show richard that is exactly What i’m Doing right here yeah so what if travis Doesn’t want to talk to mike because Mike’s going to say stuff travis doesn’t Want known even though he’s already Saying it But then we’ll have to hear and see Travis react So everybody’s just gonna make it it’ll Make it worse so travis I think is smart i mean he went on Another show and talked about it or two But They should have it out together that Would be the ultimate get it out in the Open End the story because if mike Is lying travis would destroy him Within probably minutes of the show Right especially if you got them in the Same room You know some somebody managed to get Them both together Actually physically together rather than Over Some sort of chat uh zoom whatever People use these days At stream yard that i’m using my Streamer you should sponsor me Well you know what i’m thinking also if If that

Uh if that that whole uh uh Watchtower story is true where are all The thousands and thousands of false ufo Cases Where it turned out to be a watchtower’s Life It’s probably happening all over the World it’s not a very well traveled road This is a road they too But i mean they have those everywhere in Every forest all over the planet oh Right A pandemic of like you know like it Would be it would be right up there with With the planet venus and swamp gas Yeah but lighthouses and stuff like Lighthouses have been mistaken haven’t They Yeah i i know that’s like you know Like out at sea and bob you know like Far Far away yeah i see what you’re saying i Was Involved i have to agree with you on That again if they did do something like This in the way of Uh any convincing they would have had to Dress up that tower Uh so that it wasn’t a very familiar Object once these guys saw it You can’t just fly on the state of panic To you know convey whatever It is that they’re trying to push Forward you have to give some sort of

Visual there too Again we’re not talking about one person We’re talking about multiple people who Were looking at this uh tower at east And thinking it was maybe something else Yeah no it’s just it’s it’s too much It’s it’s it’s Like it’s too well conceived of a scam Right and from a guy that you’ve never Heard of before and never heard about Anything else again You know like this is just like like Like Like i don’t know he doesn’t he doesn’t Remind me of that like you remember Balloon boy Yes like that that dad that you know Pulled that scam but they did years ago Yeah yeah that that’s the type of guy That would pull something Like that that’s right travis doesn’t Strike me as that type of guy You know uh perhaps i’m wrong you know Like You you can’t tell some sociopaths are Very stealthy Kite their tracks very well uh At the same time no like i don’t Like just like it like you believe in Them Re-enact it let’s see what they got if They have anything But aussie are you right now are you um Are you are you still team travis travis

Has done this truth Yeah i think that uh listen if If that would happen there would be a Lot more of these stories where oh it Just turned out to be a lighthouse or Rather a watchtower you know uh uh you Know like i’m saying man if it was that Easy to fake ufos Uh stephen greer would be doing it Isn’t he oh sorry Not from a watch not to my knowledge but Then again i’m not giving him five grand To go camping I think i know why travis wouldn’t Wouldn’t do the interview with you man Though Because if you’ve got those the them Both sat there And one of them saying i was abducted by Aliens and the other ones say No we faked it instantly the onus Is on the abductee to be to prove that He’s truthful because the The other story is based in reality So if so if there’s no evidence either Way you’re gonna go with the Oh yeah well you obviously faked it you Know and the majority of people would do That So i think that’s why you won’t get a Face to face with them yeah and then it Becomes religion either you believe or You don’t For your own reason yeah

I hate to out of all these guys though Okay and Obviously if mike’s in in on this And out of all these guys travis got out Of the car But not one of them got out of that car Because mike told him to stay in don’t Get out stay in he knew But the weird thing is mike also turned The truck off When they pulled over travis jumped out When it was still rolling about three Miles an hour they think They figured would any of us get out of The car I would have yeah 100 without even Listening to mike i would have gotten Out Exactly i would tell my friends keep Your camera on the object and get Another one on me I’m going to take points Camera’s not there mostly where’s my mic Yeah would they have had cameras though You know well no no no no Let’s hear me out here i mean you think About it they go They’re all going out login is one of Them one of them just have one Little camera you know there’s pictures Of them There’s pictures of them logging Cameras were expensive and you know no But there is pictures of them

There’s pictures of the team and so one Day they take the camera out with them One day they take the camera out with Them they take pictures of each other Doing the The the [ __ ] yeah but that But that one day they just don’t bring The camera out i mean Probably didn’t it probably didn’t bring The camera out because it probably want A thing then why would we need a camera We’re just going to go to work But there is pictures of them I am i am right by this i think rich i i Probably What do you mean there’s pictures of Them there’s there’s there’s pictures There’s a couple of pictures of i don’t Know if there’s a picture of Them all together but there is pictures Of the uh Or is there a picture from altogether But that was from the national Enquirer or Yeah okay okay so i’m just i’m just Being a billy [ __ ] of that but That’s fine Well i don’t know where you were going i Mean no no all i’m saying is all i’m Saying is I happen to have a camera like in your Car yeah yeah yeah If you had a case back in the day you Were either a professional photographer

Or a hobbyist Yeah there wasn’t this like you know Everybody taking pictures all the time Thing that we have now and people forget That like Uh i come from a family of people that Are involved Don’t you think the guy that’s third From the top looks like a photographer You know [Laughter] He’s got a life for it i just I don’t know i i i’m with rich and with Rich on this i am I am so on the fence now With what’s been presented Because i want to see travis call him Out Well this is that’s what i want to see Right You you guys know um know the area where This was Better than i would do would you have Bears In that in that area i don’t think at 8 000 feet but no there were bears There were okay it’s in snowflake Arizona just so people know So if if not bears then would you have Wild cats Bobcats yeah things like that Yeah so what you’ve got then at least When that when they roll up in that car Is you’ve got

Seven guys with axes and at least one Firearm Right i don’t believe With weapons that you just leave your Friend Honestly that the default for most People When confronting this is terror Yeah yeah something there’s something About this that People but that but that’s the same like Even even animals animals freak out when These beings show up i don’t mean to Sound sexist here i don’t know But we are men yeah okay yeah and When you’re with the boys do you leave One of the boys No well you’re saying that listen you’re Not talking about You you go to the pub and there’s this Hooligan that’s causing trouble There’s this giant object that you were Told Your entire life could not exist and There it is Like like like real like that comes down And Got your friend right in front of you That that’s a bit different that’s That’s that’s uh That that that’s like that’s a that’s a You’d be surprised okay but they saw him Fall off the ground Listen there’s two reactions to this

Running in terror Or just being dumbfounded Just in shock because you like because That’s what’s right Who’s driving there’s something that Travis there’s something that travis Says He says that i was looking at it and i Didn’t believe it it didn’t look real But there it was Right oh that says it Perfectly that’s what that type of Experience is like Who’s calling out as being a hoax mike Yeah who was driving the car Mike rogers so mike rogers is saying It’s a That it was all faked yeah Mike rogers was driving the car So the person who’s saying it was all Fake is the same person Who had control to to make sure to make To make sure that travis was left Right okay you we’ve got to think about That for a minute Yeah yeah it is significant But then if you were doing that if this Is what you were going to do You wouldn’t have stopped the car at all You wouldn’t have you because you said That you turned the ignition off If you were so desperate that you had to Keep everybody in the vehicle Did he oh is that the film what was the

Question In the ignition off did we did turn it Off yeah definitely did Because they didn’t want so this way Mike couldn’t drive up To where the ufo was that’s what they Said in that thing That doesn’t make a lot of sense that’s What mike said that this way i wasn’t Forced to drive over to travis i we We i took off that’s why he turned it Off i know it doesn’t make sense that’s What i’m saying But he also gives the opportunity to get To let them get out of the car By turning the ignition off yeah If you were to keep people in the car You keep the engine running So maybe i should check maybe did have Child locks Are they low on gas maybe oh i think They’re both lying I think they’re just learning different Ways So you think travis Was was wanting to fake an abduction but Actually got abducted No I i can’t comprehend them both flying What’s that mean That’s destroyed my brain i honestly Think the most logical thing here is is What rich was talking about earlier that Mike may have something out for travis i

Mean it’s much later on in life Perhaps mike has some sort of uh You know anger towards travis because You know the highlight of the story Obviously came from travis you Wrote the book mike was just this other You know peripheral player even though He was more central to the story Uh you know there could be a whole lot Of motivation and maybe even just he’s Also said that he wishes So he could witness the aliens and Everything they really love these Aliens and ufos rich could you play Can you play the clip from from from uh What was is erica erica did you did you Send me the link as well because i will Put it in the I did i i put the link to the show But not to what do you want me to play Just the Uh mike speaking out about it oh let me Pull it back up yeah And if you can if you could send it to Me as well if you So i can put it into the description uh With the name with the name of her Channel Sure mate thank you mate late Did you hear me say mate to you today in My message i actually used it correctly It just came out i don’t know how it Happened I was like before you know it rich

What was that michael i said you’d be Sounding like me mate before you realize It And i’m that song i was supposed to be Using that word you’re a good bloke So glad i got you all speaking it’s a Good word But a matage all right i’m going to give You the link yourself here Here you go top alien addict there it is And the gush oh this is your facebook Messenger huh Just pause it a second i’ve just muted It a second there [ __ ] so go check out um what’s the Channel called It’s ufo erica luke says I will go subscribe it is ufo classified With Erica luke’s that’s e-r-i-c-a-l-u-k-e-s Ufo classified okay i’ve got all that I’m going to put that into the Description Very very very good show she does a Really good uh Podcast by the way i i always liked Erica luke’s Always have you have you interviewed her No i don’t know why i haven’t she got Her own mate Yeah good idea do you know uh I think it was her husband uh Worked at skinwalker ranch and i thought You i thought you were gonna say as a

Husband that Why she hasn’t been on he got jealous And said no you’re not going to richie’s Show He’s too handsome no sorry But he was one of the guys that came out And was talking about all the issues That he’s had with uh Being at skinwalker i don’t know i think He got health issues but then also said It wasn’t Real or something i don’t know she had a Really good Coming out party with that story i don’t Know does anybody know about that i Can’t remember a year ago but First up all right well then let’s Forget it and just ask her All right you want me to play this thing Uh yes mate i Can’t i can’t save the put the link in The description I’ll put it in after the show oh okay it Will be in No yeah but put it in the chat um but Let’s operate the chat there you go Here’s the link everybody to the Conversation you could also click on the Link Oh this link doesn’t take you to erica Luke’s this is the link To orion adventures the travis walton Call Ah all right here we go i mean sorry

Mike rogers call So there’s the link to that i’m gonna I’m I’m gonna well there isn’t one So that’s not true then they’re they’re Because i’ve heard that there was a uh A call between a recording of a call With travis Oh i didn’t know well maybe it’s in with Ryan i believe Well maybe it’s in the eight hours here Where travis Like i could be wrong but i it was Almost like I heard that travis tried to make out They didn’t know who he was speaking to Yes Yeah that i heard the same thing but oh Okay Okay guys just put yourself on mute Through this because we can’t speak Because we get an echo because stream Yard doesn’t let us It doesn’t let me and rich know how to Operate its software So um i’ll put myself a mute but i’ll Go i’m muted hit it rich All i like to remember like is that we We were talking in the woods one day Travis and i And uh i i remember Leaving a chainsaw on a stump okay Uh he had a saw but he took his Willingness because we were talking

About A creating uh uh a ufo hoax okay Yeah i don’t i don’t know how how the Ufo got there okay Uh but i remember that Uh when i drove when i was driving the Truck and he jumped out It was it was all deliberate it was all A staged Thing okay yeah and he ran up there and Uh there was something And there was something about the ufo Uh not being real Although it looked real well basically What you’re saying is i you and travis Together Hoaxed this yeah i mean the travis’s Brother blaine Helped him i believe that Actually suspected that uh duane was Was part of it yeah i mean he was his Protector and uh And he was saying weird things on that Principle dangerous interview I have nothing i i don’t care at all for His life i know where he’s i know that Was really Wrong that was really bizarre and i Thought all along that he was just Trying to uh how would you say it Make himself believe that his brother Was okay yeah that’s what you had told Me I yeah i don’t know i mean

If if let’s say let’s say today You could you could walk me through the Entire Thing of how and why and blah blah blah How the process would work just so You’re aware how the process would work Is i i would put For the site you know i must have dinner And all that stuff you know because I definitely can we can have Dinner That’s it that’s enough i wish you want To take me for dinner Um this It doesn’t explain anything that though When now the You i got excited the first time i heard That After listening to it three times He’s he all he says is About travis potentially Doing a hoax and thinks that travis’s Brother was in on it and he didn’t know How the ufo got there Right but they it doesn’t explain That he’s in on it he’s almost like he’s Stopped and drove and he just drove off My right arm or wrong there because he Doesn’t say that he Was in on that it just says he had the Rumor That travis was going to do a hoax well He didn’t in Uh and what’s the word i’m looking for

Well he didn’t involve himself in the Story direct Though it’s implied uh it’s still very Strange that he went from I remember there was a chainsaw i don’t Know how the ufo got Again his memory is so spotted when it Comes to something like this if This it was an elaborate setup You know these details considering it’s Probably been Front facing way of a story for the Entirety of your life since that event Occurred I think you’d remember unless there’s Something going on with him medically There’s no reason he should be Stammering the way he is skipping around With detail and not giving us really Anything in the words that he’s saying And then an accusation Just doesn’t sit right is it Nope lee It seems vindictive you sat calmly there And you like It looks like you you were thinking very Deeply When you were listening to that i He’s he doesn’t sound like he’s telling The truth and like you say It’s it’s when he turns around and says The ufo wasn’t real But it looked real but he doesn’t seem To know what it was

You know if if it was the fire tower Thing he’d have said that then Yeah we’d have said the fire down it Could have been the fire tower Yeah or or he’d have singled out he’d Have said the fire tower was there That’s what travis thought was the ufo Here i’m reading that travis was sick All day and stayed in the truck And mike was gone for two hours down the Mountain working Probably plotting together so they were Out of sight Of the crew for a couple of hours see That’s That’s sexy that it just gets better and Better Yeah they what they took a Giant magnifying glass dropped to their Back climbed up the tower and stalled it It was it was dark and they set up they Probably set it up before When nobody was around they probably Drove down there and said okay you stand Here Hey four miles away shine the light now You know it’s like i don’t get it either It’s a little wild but it was a way for That to hit him like a bean No i know that’s just like it’s called Inverse square law This light does not work that way unless You’re dealing with a ufo In which case you there’s weird

Properties of light it was a searchlight It was a very big big big searchlight Enormous like then they had to drag that [ __ ] up there And stall it and take it down no it was Already in the tower It was already afterwards i mean like You know they had five days but couldn’t Could somebody couldn’t somebody go to The tower and look at this particular Light that’s supposedly You know part of the structure and then You know find out what magnification Purposes it has or uh you know You know like they’re probably in fact You can probably find An old one somewhere circa the same time Period you know somewhere Uh i doubt they’re all gone and even if You have to use modern technology you Can limit it to the capacities of You know uh 1970s technology that was Common at the time We should very very easily this is not Like launching a rocket to the moon If travis walton and two of his Knucklehead friends Did this you know with no real training At night in the in the 70s You know this can be easily much more Easily done now And and proven definitively that this is The what Happened or proven definitively that it

Did very very easily Uh i at the end of the day that’s Probably what’s going to need to have to Happen Well someone’s going to have to try and Reach the tower Somewhere uh matching the description And seeing if that You know can really like you know it Just doesn’t make any sense Like you know like it’s it’s it’s the Problem with that The problem with that though is they Would have to re create that Only using 1975. Exactly but somebody must have that There must be you know uh uh a Watchtower spotlight dude they had a lot Of those those must have been common They’re somewhere in a pawn shop you Know assuming they’re not still being Used somewhere It could be easy i boys i see another Road trip coming on with third phase i Think You boys could actually go out and try And do this that’s not what it is I would finally watch the episode if you Guys could Rig that system and and uh prove or Disclose An insanely good video i think i’m on it I’m gonna see if i can uh yeah good idea See if you could crowdfund to get the

Some type of you know like people would Pay To try to do that experiment it Shouldn’t be that expensive It shouldn’t be let’s do it rich the Most expensive thing might be the plane Ticket It has to be it has to be 1975 technology that’s got it that’s the Rule yes To do it perfectly yes you know and see If you can find some old-timers that Used to work on those things see if They’ll help you out or And also also you would have to dress In 1970s gear and i want to say i want To see 1970s Mustaches i want you guys all of you Especially blake and brent to look Like them tom schuller you’re awesome That’d be so cool Wait there’s only one guy with a Mustache so we’ll be fighting over that Me and rich anyway bell bottoms And and perms I lived through it once I’ve got a feeling this is going to Happen it might happen actually It might happen that would be fantastic Man that why not michael what is it Seriously I want to be credited i said yeah There’d be a different angle than Anyone’s really covered you know in way

Of documentation On this story it boots on the ground Right listen dude When in doubt be scientific repeat the Experiment Just just remember little old me that Just Plunged that idea into your head yeah me I was already thinking about it i think All the cogs were turning then i think All the cogs were turning Yeah they were all turning it’s all Right mainly going to reenact Rendering forest oh that’s right yes How cool would that be there we go we Put that together it’d be a great loud Around there yeah At all isn’t that still like you know Benched off But still what could go wrong yeah So so i’m gonna have um I’m gonna have uh ghost tech paranormal That try to get Um into the base uh on Um and and yeah it is all fenced off but The The the actual the actual place has a Whether it is the place or not i don’t Know that is this so-called is the place They haven’t Kind of this this monument there uh with The symbols on It’s oh it’s all been graffitied up now If i go out there i’m gonna clean it

Out of respect i’m going to give it a Little polish um But yeah i i i feel like in the monument The see the red nostril foreign Because it’s it’s it’s a military story But I don’t know how much i believe military Stories these days oh geez With all of that i think it was when i Was born it was actually the month that Was born as well December 1980 maybe maybe that’s when i I i landed it might be or Oh that was when you were born well it Would have happened an alien An alien i’m sorry if you’re watching This mother an alien Stuffed me inside my mother’s um The chain vagine I i have it i have a tagine i cook with It all the time You ever had a tissue have you ever Heard of a tagine It’s funny enough my mother my mother Bought me it yeah it’s a beaut Beautiful beautiful cooking uh utensil It’s like a Like a big pot um thing with a big Funnel on it you put Meat and all sorts in it great stuff oh I know what they’re talking about Yeah beautiful beautiful but enough of My mother’s tagine Um this needs to happen

This needs to be recreated And if the if this can get pulled off Then i don’t know I might believe it i might believe you Mike But that there’s only one way to really Like listen the only way to To know is to check You got to go there yourself with all This information behind you yep You would you would have to reenact it Properly though someone would have to Get out It’d have to be at night it that you’d Yeah you have to find out you have to Find a A tower similar construction you would Have The same keep it in arizona yeah you Would have to You’d have to put the camera view from What what the witnesses would have seen Yeah see if any of the old ones are Still surviving that circular same error Well we would go on location so i’m sure It’s still there Well no no no that thing probably burnt Down during the fire Oh maybe yeah how would you that’s well That’s what i’m assuming All right how would you have to find Some place that would match it Uh nearly as much uh you know like i Said keep it in arizona

Uh if possible see if you can use an Older one if there’s any that are still In existence And preferably an older one that maybe Has the old technology if not see if you Can find it in a pawn shop or something Somebody a collector maybe some old guy That used to work on these things yeah To try to find an old guy that used to Command those Uh those towers find out as much about Those towers As they’re conventionally used at that Time as you can possibly can You know and then uh work from there uh If you come up with any other ideas that How they could have magnified the light Or whatever you have to make sure that It’s all You know technology circa 1975 or before Uh nothing afterwards uh again you have To like do your due diligence Uh you know and you’re gonna have to do It a couple times probably to make sure But uh but that’s science I can’t work out if the subscriber might Wants to come on the show Or if he wants me to get mike rogers on The show Rich should we have a race to see who Can get Mike rogers on a show i’m sure you’ll Beat me Get my you need to get mike rogers on

Goof on the funny thing is i could have Had him on And get him on no this was months ago And And he was being a dick about it it was Really weird like there was all these Things i couldn’t ask or say i’m like Forget it Hey well i’m giving you an interview you Know i could i could hear him in the Background Uh nope not doing it that’s okay He he wasn’t very nice So it never happened okay well then well Then Then there’s some guys then there’s Something to be concerned about you know That was a year almost a year ago so See you know before he concocted this Story You should get him on Well apparently uh Caroline’s just said here i know i don’t Pay a lot of attention to the chat room Guys It’s not because i don’t love you so i Love you very much but i’ll say it once I said it again I’m dyslexic but i was i was born that Way i’ll certainly die that way But caroline says here that mike rogers Is in is in the bathroom chat room Sorry dyslexia Yeah apparently is it the real chat room

Right now With the real mike rogers please stand Up just please stand up Please stand up Mike if you can hear me I feel like i’m doing the uh the ghost Stack here If you if you can hear me mike Show us the sign Did anybody else notice mike right right She’s in the chat room Hmm no i didn’t see him this is amy Rogers I think i saw book rogers Buck [ __ ] somebody’s I’ve got this troll now that’s creating A mike rogers Yes hey i had a guy uh Make up a jeremy lockheed martin corbell Name yes yesterday oh you put jeremy Lucky mine car belt Yeah because i call him jeremy you know How he has four names so i said jeremy Lockheed martin corbell So that he showed up in my chat room I guess that didn’t land It’s like definitely I don’t know i i don’t know what’s going On Is he rich he has Four names is he rich yeah he he was Born rich yeah that’s my understanding Yeah cause he doesn’t like

Like i don’t know like something about Him wreaks of a trust fund But i heard he was in debt for 200 200 grand and spent the night on john Lear’s cap not the night weeks On john lear’s couch yeah but there’s Issues with that too there’s like The their family like says things and Like They’re having an issue with them like They’re supposed to be this like I remember initially he was supposed to Be working on that big doc with with John lear For years and years and years and he Didn’t come out and the reason why i Didn’t come out is because the family’s Having issues With him like there’s like something That’s going on with that like there’s Uh Nobody’s really saying anything uh but There’s like some type of commotion in Lear’s camp well i i feel if you’re Broke And you’re living on a couch and that Couch happens to be Like the family that created the leah Jet you’re not as broke as some people Have been This is true that’s a point There’s another one you know What if one of bob’s mate says you know Bob

Was i know as a few of his mates a few People have said that he’s full of [ __ ] But I’m sorry i didn’t mean to interrupt i Think this is important i have to So i’m looking at something here uh a Map That ryan gordon put out about About the gentry lookout tower what’s That It’s in the video that i i didn’t play That’s from erica luke’s channel I got it right here hold on This is interesting because it changes Everything It shows that the lookout tower is only About 150 feet away from the truck And basically near travis You you got it i got it up here for you I i got it you got it uh thank you Elena but elaine is saying that Who’s this who’s that guy ryan you know Yeah that’s orion adventures comment That’s the one who I played the clip from the the phone Call That was his video that he had ryan Gordon on he wants to come on He wants to call in and oh wow okay oh Do you do Have you guys contact details oh it is Ryan gordon brian gordon wants to Come into your show right now oh that’s

Great do you do you have his Do you have his um Thank you elena for that lincoln put the Link to the show in the chat But i guess he’s going to answer some Questions I see you don’t have his personal to put The link in Oh i do yeah i guess i could send him The link i’m sorry all right please Yeah okay because we may We may end up with like a naked man in The sh In the ship you know I i haven’t done it before now so if i Haven’t done it the chances are it’s not Gonna happen You have to send me the link okay i’m Sending you the link Facebook it and i’ll send it to him and Then pull up the screen so people can See what i was talking about You say facebook it yeah messenger Sorry facebook it There it is Did you pull up the screen to show the Map that i was talking about Uh there we go i’m just gonna you can Look at it it’s gonna mute it because it Oh wow this one All right i’m sending uh ryan i’m Sending this to You in your email so ryan if you just uh Stream me as a funny one if you just

Click on it you can you can access it on Your phone or anything That you like um There you go sorry he knows how to think How to work that changes everything Doesn’t it Yeah that looks really closer than four Or five i think it was four or five Miles from Where they were working i’m not sure Anymore it’s very confusing Because that looks like it’s right on Top of them So ryan’s is ryan the guy from the film Yeah is it ryan from the film that’s Coming on Perfect as well it’s they’re just Looking through a little bit of tree Covering So they’ll be able to see the light i See lights in skyscrapers like i’m Looking at them right now from my window Like you can tell that they’re far away Yeah but you’re not looking in complete Blackness are you it would be so Dark there and there isn’t uh excitement Going on of the unknown oh my god that Thing was supposed to be right on top of It that that’s not the same Well we’ll hear what probably would be But Ryan i’ll explain it If that’s if he is scale though travis Is really tall

We’ll hear what he says ryan welcome to The show Hey there guys thanks for thanks for Having me sorry about the confusion Trying to get me on there Felt like was spamming your channel a Bit oh no no ryan before before you You get into this can you just explain To to the audience who you actually are Sure so i started working with travis Walton back in may of last year On doing a documentary remake of fire in The sky Right i’m the one that has the the audio Calls You all been playing you’ve got my Presentation on your screen right now Yep so then To give us the good ryan tell us Everything you know Don’t leave don’t leave any stone Unturned If i had a dollar for every time Anyhow i i was listening to the to the Show and uh It seems like there’s a lot of Misunderstanding here a lot of questions Ollie i did reach out to you on facebook This morning To to talk to you but maybe you missed The message I don’t understand facebook my wife made Me a facebook account i do have an alien Addict account on facebook that i never

Really and don’t look at it that much Every so often oh no lincoln Sorry man i’ll uh send me an email after After the show um It’s alien addict uk gmail.com I’ll bring it up now for you and we can Do some we could do some stuff there you Go mate I appreciate you so i i guess you know After after my time on erica’s show There’s been a tremendous amount of Confusion about Where did this take place i heard you Guys talking about Uh shining spotlights roughly five miles Or miles away I’m not really sure how this came up or Or where that’s from But i want to be here to answer any Direct questions you have Because it’s me i that has put out Everything with the tower here So what about what you see here how far Was the tower when they When travis got out and looked at it at The ufo So i was given a walkthrough of how this Went So where you see truck parked here this Is me referencing Uh gps coordinates i would use my phones My iphone When i was there with with the crew and Said this is where we stopped

This was roughly the view through the Trees it was Obviously a big deal not to have the Stilts Of the trees show are still so the Towers show up There from the road all of this was a Rehearsed and choreographed event Of course with the with the goal of Winning the hundred thousand dollar Reward from national enquirer Did they get into how they rehearsed it Yeah so it’s not that hard of an event To pull off i i heard you guys mention That you felt that there was a lot of Moving parts Uh in reality the only moving part is Flipping a light switch So i i felt confused way with that so I’d like to be able to clear that for You if i can The reason yeah that’s a confusing thing Sorry ali is because i was told When scott was telling it yesterday or Day before that If somebody got out of the truck with Travis it would have blown the cover So is that true well absolutely i think That’s that’s a hundred percent the case But i i would ask you a question in Reverse If it’s an issue of of folks getting in And out of this old truck Why did nobody else get out of the truck

In the story that the public Mainly believes in which is with a ufo Nobody got out of the truck there either Except for walton Right but the like we we asked would you Get out of the truck all of us Answered yeah i would have got out of The truck to look at it too so the fact That You guys are but you also are on a ufo Channel And you’re also ufo enthusiasts these Are these are guys that are just being a Run-of-the-mill salt of the earth America You all have an interest in no no even Before Even before if i was 20 years old before I got into ufos i would have gotten out And looked at it probably i would i i me Being honest man i would have got out And look too I would have i would have been just like Travis because Let’s let’s keep it real i How many times are we going to see a ufo I i’d be right there trailing behind Travis A hundred percent so that’s what we mean But the truth is Nobody did right that’s what i mean About moving parts moving There’s a lot of things that could go Wrong for this remember

No because if you if you look at mike Rogers testimony As soon as i uh walton got out of the Car Walt uh uh rogers bailed he took off That’s why you don’t have any of the Guys in testimony whether it be in Police report Or anywhere else talking about seeing The blue beam Seeing any of this that’s why rogers has Clarified himself multiple times there’s Nobody On that crew that’s even an uh witness To this alleged abduction Okay they weren’t there so ryan you’re Saying that the crew didn’t actually see Travis hit the ground and didn’t see the Beam No that’s in the movie man everybody Said a lot of confusion comes from Absolutely hold on wait a minute so he Was just standing there And they had the light on him and then They just drove off without him Have you ever read the report on this Have you ever looked at any of the Police reports Uh no well if you had then that then you Then yes You would see that nobody was there long Enough to to know any of this stuff They say that it was roughly 15 seconds In total between travis opening the the

Door And and taking off and so why wasn’t it Sorry how long was the light on like When The beam of light hit him that’s it was The impetus of them Running or at least that’s the story So my when mike rogers his most recent Interview was with Erica on her show friday before Last and she asked him that that Question and mike’s response was is that He had a premonition That something bad was going to happen And so in order to Protect the guys he took off There is no testimony at all whether Uh you look at the reports from apro or Look at the reports from ground saucer Watch Of these guys ever seeing a blue beam of Light They do claim to have seen A ufo that was they that was One question that was in this uh Polygraph test that was Issued by sheriff um certainly not Sheriff gillespie but cy gilson The uh polygraph for the state of Arizona But no there is nobody on record with Any any report uh the early reports Whether again through ground saucer Watcher afro

Of them seeing this And mike again clarified that they’re on Your Uh on erica’s show In respect to that tower sorry go mike I was just gonna say in respect to the Tower and the way that everything’s sort Of laid out uh you know on the table Right now and the theory that this was All host why why wasn’t The area more thoroughly investigated at The time why didn’t somebody You know take this into account saying Hey there’s this structure here it’s It’s well lit Do you have any ideas why they didn’t Follow up on that yeah sure do So there’s multiple ways in and out of That Of that area i think it’s really Important and to backstep your question Just a little bit if that bra I this was the first night that these Guys had ever worked This late i this is I threw testimony of steve pierce y’all Also read steve pearce’s testimony A little bit ago about travis not being There that day mike rogers not being There that day anyhow it was also the First day that i ever worked that late The reason why is if you look at the Contract That they were offered by the forest

Service the The contracting official as part of the Police report Says that the guys were i 30 of the job had been completed But 80 of it or 80 percent of time had Passed Ideally those numbers should match for In any job And so they were running severely behind The morale of of the crew is low This is the first night they work that Late I as part of my presentation i show Different routes to this area on google Maps The typical way to go to work is a 100 Percent legitimate off-road Trail it’s not graded by the forest Service It’s rocky it’s bumpy it’s it’s a high Clearance Road that road is called black canyon Road and goes from heber arizona Up to this work site called turkey Springs That was the typical way of going to Work but it’s bouncy It’s it’s it’s a hassle with a lot of Guys So it’s on record that that night they Decided to go a different way home To get faster get home faster and it was The first time they had ever gone that

Way And this this road is called rim road Highway highway 300 rim road and i I’d like for all to to really remember That uh Highway 300 a rim road because that is Where The police reports are filed that this Took place Not in turkey springs the newspaper Articles from that time period In the big headline says ufo hovering Over rim road This is i please pay attention to that Because it’s pertinent to where this Took place I there’s a lot of confusion Of i mean these are guys out in the Woods how could they how could people be So stupid not to See a light tower how i mean these guys Work up there how could they not see Something like this before Right that feels like a valid question That somebody could ask me Right of course yeah absolutely so these Were questions i had as well I i want to be really clear it wasn’t I’m not going to Respectfully i’m not going to answer too Much into this question but This was i’ve shown to me this is not Something that i came up with I during during production anyhow

I’m ryan just Just so you know i don’t know if you’re On a computer but you you You’re welcome to share anything on hi On here if you press Share screen you want to show i’m on my I’m on my Just my iphone okay no way no ways bro Yeah i’m on my iphone but anyhow going Going to this screenshot That you guys have here of my my Presentation and i have aerial footage That i’ve shown Here on erica’s show uh that shows this From a ground-based view Shows it from i shows it from the air This is an aerial shot So when the truck is parked there and You read the description in the book of How far away and everything else it Matches up here Directly and i’ve showed this exact Thing In video uh that When you when the truck is parked there You can’t tell that that’s a That’s a lookout tower at all i So when somebody gets out of the truck And is running literally Up to something lit up That’s hovering above a tree line people Are not used to seeing Anything hovering above the tree line That it’s a stationary object

At all that has lights on it It’s really this happened to me when i Was up there i thought that i had seen a Ufo myself Uh it’s wild So when you’re running up through the When you’re parked there deliberately Parked at one area And you’re looking through the window Also want to be really clear that it’s Only the guys on the right hand side of The vehicle That that said that they saw this Because you you can’t see from the other Side of the truck unless you can see Through the roof So let’s keep that in mind as well They’re all crammed in this truck Uh all of these forest service towers Have a 100 000 lumen carbide lamp on them are you Familiar with carbide lamps No yes carbide lamps are the same lamps That are used in lighthouses They’re quite bright i and they’re meant For signaling They’re also on a telescoping feature They can go up down rotate 360 degrees Whatever is necessary i they also had Three lenses That went over the front just very basic Keep in mind this is only 1970. I read grew in blink excuse me red green And blue

So and these these uh lights are affixed To the outside railing of the light Tower So in terms of of moving parts You have to stop the truck at a location That’s mike’s only job travis runs out That’s his only job and you have Dwayne’s friend Which i think you guys have heard the Recording now that dwayne helped with This Per mike rogers his friend up in the Light tower that just Flips a switch on this carbide lamp and You’re done and mike rogers takes off That’s all i don’t i don’t think that’s A lot of moving parts flipping light Switches It’s a lot of moving parts i think it is Everything would have to work what Moving part do you see man Flipping a light switch well for them to Get the light To hit travis the way it did everything Had to be why does it have to hit travis The way that it did because there was Nobody that saw that that thing exact Man look how far away they are Because they they don’t know i mean they Wanted it to make it look as i’m just Saying i’m just throwing it out there It’s You know well if you i’d be happy to Discuss that i’ve been there i’ve walked

Through it Through this many times right but you Weren’t able to turn the light on and See if that even could be a possibility You know what i mean There’s a lot of things we can’t do Anymore i’m sorry osvaldo i was talking Are you saying that i that i haven’t Done that no i’m saying you can’t That’s the whole thing it’s different Wasn’t there a fire All right you seem to be getting Defensive i’m just asking questions ryan I’m confused at why your The first reaction would be if you saw a Light which you couldn’t explain if You’re Looking through a tree line Why the first thing you go to is it Being a ufo if it was just a light You know i can understand people Thinking it was Some sort of craft if they saw something Crazy Sure but just the light i mean i’ve er For instance where i live there’s a hill You can go to where our airport is when It’s night time You can see the you can see planes Coming into land and They don’t appear to move because They’re coming head-on at you and Because they’re coming head-on at you You can’t see the flashing lights on

Them and for all the world It looks like a light coming towards you Um But even even looking at that i don’t Look at that and I wouldn’t look at that and instantly Think it was a ufo i’d i’d look at that And Think well that’s strange what’s that i And if i saw a light in a forest I would think that’s strange what’s that But my mind wouldn’t instantly go to ufo It would go to Is that a plane that’s coming towards me Is it actually sure Absolutely but this is the thing about Getting out to look at it So if you don’t think it’s a ufo Then terror wouldn’t set in and you Would all get out and look at it So it has to be something more Exceptional than just a light in the Trees To keep people in the car That that’s lea i’m with you on that Completely and that Ryan i think what you’ve put out there Is it It it’s and what mike has said It’s very it’s very it’s It’s it’s making us ask this question It’s the whole reason why we’re doing This video in the first place Right yeah but what i was talking about

Is a and richard the same is that we Would get out of that car We would get out that carpet when i’m Looking at these men and they are men You know i know that i know that i know The boys back then but yeah You know the these these guys go into a Forest you know they cut down trees In in the wilderness and i know that They Are pretty rugged guys yeah they didn’t Know travis for that long But no I have a big is the tower still there Tonight with me Oh yeah absolutely oh no Yes i have a big problem with leaving Leaving somebody Why why leaving somebody out there on The road Yeah i i have a problem with that Because i something i would never do You know i would never leave one of uh Even If i knew if if i went away on a lads Holiday And one of the boys that even if i just Met them You know got left behind i wouldn’t Right so let’s Let’s yeah so let me let me if i can Explain that back to you So you’re correct that the guys really Didn’t know each other all that well

With the exception of Of mike rogers yeah i am knowing travis I travis is dating mike’s sister named Dana And a couple of years prior to that If you’re interested in character Profiling this This group i suppose these guys here It was travis walton and um Mike rogers older brother that stole a Checkbook a company checkbook and tried To run off to florida together Their committed burglary and all these Other things so this family was already Pretty well Connected let’s also keep in mind that There’s a hundred thousand dollar reward For for the best ufo story so let’s keep That in context for For some motive here in In terms of leaving people there Travis was left there regardless if it’s Gentry tower Or a ufo from the pleiades Is is the tower still there today do you Know Yeah i was just there i yes it’s so There that picture that you have there On your screen is not more than Like two months old oh but that is the Only Reason i’m asking is because you know it Was

Yeah it has so The tower has it’s all barbed wired off At the bottom Uh you see you can’t get up to it Anymore which is pretty unfortunate But the forest service does have a Volunteer program if anybody would be Interested In applying where you can volunteer in The tower then of course you’d have Access to the light Yeah and and recreating the whole thing If that’s something you’d be interested In I’m not sure how the forest service was Like that but Ryan michael my my question there with Them leaving him yeah That definitely happened they got they He got left But yeah i just I i i i think it has it had to have been So scary for them to actually leave that Guy So what what i’m thinking for whom can You can you help me to understand scary For whom because if My position is that mike rogers and Travis walton are in on this together Right it’s the two of them versus the Five witnesses But that’s not what he said in that Interview he said That mike rogers he said that

He said that i stopped me if i’m wrong It may be wrong But he said that travis’s brother was in On it also Possibly that’s correct yeah with the Tower that’s correct Mike didn’t make out in there that he Said that there was They were going to set up this fake ufo But he didn’t say Unless he unless i’m missing a bit there That that’s been played On this show he did not say that he was Told To stop there then drive off are you Talking about the phone call where he’s Speaking to me About his confession yes okay So that that came about one week Into mike knowing me uh that was also The first time that Mike had ever talked about something Like that so when he’s speaking to me You’re gonna hear him with a slow Cadence he’s being very careful with What he’s telling me because he knows As part of production that all calls are Recorded So he’s being he’s being careful with What he says He also doesn’t know what i know or what He do what i don’t So how the call goes and i can’t say it Verbatim

But he he starts with sourcing a memory About some chainsaws on a stump And uh for me that that was curious Uh but the more i would get to know mike I would see that he recalls a lot of Things through Through memory through visual memory but He He says that he remembers the chainsaw On a stump And that he and travis were discussing a Ufo hoax how to create a ufo hoax Yep and It’s them together and then he’s Explaining to me about i Getting out of the car was a very staged And deliberate act This was how i interpret that is this is It’s a planned it’s a rehearsal it’s an Orchestrated thing Then he says something to the effect the Ufo Was there but it didn’t really it didn’t Look Real and it’s going back and forth here So For me i paused the conversation at that Point and i’m asking him to confirm to Me That he and travis hoaxed the event To which he answers in the affirmative That he had Hoaxed it but how i interpreted the next Part with dwayne

Is i mike didn’t want all of the Attention On him and he had to bring somebody else In it as well Dwayne that’s how i interpreted it like Don’t it’s like a little kid that got Caught in a cookie jar Saying well dwayne helped too that would That’s how i That’s how i heard Has mike said that he Was told to stop there and he was told To to to to drive off and leave Has he actually come out and said that As has he just said That he had heard that they were gonna Do a ufo Hoax and they saw something travis got Out and then he just decided to drive Off Because i’ve not heard him say i Was told to drive off But that’s correct there is there’s no Public i I have not released that to the public And i don’t i won’t Because i i’m already going up a bit too Far with it Is this something that he may have said To you and you are going to release But so so what happened is after that Call You you’re seeing that mike wants me to Take him to dinner

So we do we go out to dinner the next Day which is the first of may So not that long ago and after dinner we Go directly to gentry lookout tower Where he is giving me a first-hand Walk-through of how this all Transpired that’s how i know where the Truck stopped that’s how i know all of This Because i sat there with him as he Explained it all to me Yeah at any point ryan did you have the Uh idea or get the inclination that Possibly might Might be contriving some of this out of Spite uh for Uh a ruined friendship did you ever get That impression at all You did yes yes um any anybody who Is aware of their situation or follows Mike on facebook You’ll see that there is like jerry Springer level drama between them Consistently Um a lot of name calling a lot of Threats of lawsuits a lot of things Dealing with Money with sales of the book um It’s it’s it’s pretty bad This is also not the first time that Mike has come out And talked about the event being a hoax He had also placed that on his facebook That travis walton is a big ufo hoaxer

And that he knows that for for fact so Where does that come into your Interpretation of what he’s telling you Does it play a part Um i i think that You know Oh yeah i’m trying to be really careful How i word this here Um it would definitely play a part if The only person that i had heard that From Was mike rogers hmm Okay rich so If mike rogers was my only contact with This Then i i don’t know that that would have Been Uh a credible source some people listen To the to the way mike Interacts with me as i Perhaps in a very respectful way because I really don’t like the way that people Called him out On on peter robbins show and try to Diagnose him with all these mental Illnesses that was Inappropriate but i Somewhere in between that i guess would Be my answer i’m trying to be a little More Respectful of this well can can you tell Us just the number of other people that May have given you the same narrative Sorry ali

No i’m just going to say the players Quite quickly because i’ve just noticed That Rich what time does your show start 20 Minutes that’s right In 20 minutes okay rich if you need to Disappear i will make sure this show Ends before 20 minutes and you can Follow up on goof on radio so make sure You go Subscribe to rich giorgiano doof on Radio it’s in the description This show will end before your show Starts rich i’ll make sure of that But yeah if you need to shoot off at any Point But dark i’ll be so my my only clients As part of this production were travis Walton and mike rogers Okay all right very curious So ryan you’ve you’ve you spoke with With With travis then i I worked with travis on a remake Documentary style of his film starting In may of 2020 Which travis verified uh has verified Publicly many times Okay so osvaldo was talking earlier About As possible phone call is is this you The possible that That travis denied knowing you it is It is you travis did

Did i post on his facebook that he Didn’t know who i was I did call him the very next day which I’ve made this call public By the way they called him the next day And asked him why he had done that Among many other things that he and i Would talk about but in context Of him not not knowing me he told me That I somebody else had been using his phone Which i don’t know about that but that Is what he says on the record on the on The call which Everybody can hear said he had help with Making those Those messages but you hear me thank him For The opportunity to work with him um it’s A very good call He says he looks forward to seeing me Again shake my hand It’s um very bizarre So you’re a film creator and you you’ve Been working On possibly making a documentary On the travis walton case so when you First got involved in this You was just wanting to do this because You were intrigued in the case And not because of You had your suspicions about the case I’m all right

Absolutely i i want to be really clear That this Story was one that i have looked up to In ufology for quite some time I i i i thought that it I would have the same things but that Other people would say the The witnesses the polygraph that all These things For sure but so you you might fight the Story Absolutely i i started this entire this Entire thing For a a remake of the film fire in the Sky but documentary style Um can i ask what is going to happen now With the work that you’ve done Are you going to still release a Documentary or no so I wouldn’t be able i wouldn’t be able to Do that without Um obviously having travis’s support and Compensation i I can’t go out and release footage that He wouldn’t be compensated for that’s Just wrong and i’d probably get sued too So so there is a lot of footage A tremendous amount Have you practiced on the entire Documentary then No i i would say that um it’s probably At least 65 percent done again we’re Working on it since may of 2020 But there is a phone call of travis

Where you call him and he makes how the He That this what i’ve heard that he he Makes out that he doesn’t know you Not on the phone call no no no there was Posts on his facebook that he did right Now and i saw him and i and i saw those And i called him to ask what’s going on Why are you saying that What did he say i again i can You guys want to play the call i can i Can get it for you it’s just like It’s on my um youtube channel The same one that has the the same Channel with the call with mike or i can Send it an email to To rich if that’d be okay Yeah yeah i can get the link real quick If you wouldn’t mind rich before your Show starts that’d be great be a good Ending to the show I don’t want to run i don’t want to run Over time that i want to end before your Show Don’t worry about it it’s cool it’s Orion adventures right yeah All right here comes the link right here Oh you’re sending it all right that’s Easier Thanks this is a 10 minute call to be Clear we’re talking about lots of Different things Here it is all right let me pull it up And bring it on over

Oh wow all right Here we go and i’m gonna probably have To you ollie in five We’ll probably all go on mute because We’ll there’ll be an echo Just stream your stream yeah but um have We got it yet Yep zen master me with a 99 cent super So to be clear with this call From a call pardon I said so the back story to this is me Just calling him this very friendly coal We’re not talking about gentry or Anything i don’t want anybody All right here we go what’s that ali you Want to say something real quick no No no no no no no okay hello Hey travis it’s ryan gordon i’m hoping That we can talk here for a second Hey i i’m really hoping we can have a Conversation without screaming I mean that would certainly be nice i Saw your comments on The facebook last night and i’ve always Said publicly and even to you that i’ve Always really appreciated your Professionalism And the way that you and i’ve always Interacted over the past bit I i think that you and i are on the same Page here When it comes to rogers i i will admit That Everything you said to me about him you

Tried to warn me and I i i guess first most want to issue an Apology You’re right i i probably should have Believed you Here quite some time It really is i I don’t know i I like you and i talked about on our Last phone call Where i said it felt like i was talking To a couple that was going through a Divorce What the heck what the heck Well it’s embarrassing to me but yeah Obsessed On an individual basis like that Yeah but what i mean can we both agree That you and i have always got along Pretty well we’ve never had any shouting Match we’ve never named called I mean you and i’ve always got a long Time Yes anyone who challenges his rightness Is um really [ __ ] up in a really basic Way That’s the first time i’ve heard you Swears That’s the best way he thinks you know i Normally don’t there there was a post That you had made last night Was that really you last night by the Way typing all that stuff or did you Have somebody using your phone

Because i’ve never seen you angry like That before I was so well i Had some help but yeah yeah actually Just do good Anyhow there was a post that i do Believe came from you That um you were Assuming it was you i didn’t where mike Had said because i I refuse to answer his question That that automatically makes me guilty And i i do 100 Believe you made the response saying Just because basically just because Somebody makes a response or does not Make a response that doesn’t make them Guilty So i want i want to thank you for Publicly trying to defend me i guess That is logical i mean yes um To say well i put this out there and if He won’t answer me then they he’s Right thank you thank you for defending Me because That’s that’s i mean again you and i Boys got along Just fine so i i The intent of this call is to say You were right um You were right i was wrong I i i know that the way that i met him Out there at the site the turkey springs Was bizarre

I mean i i was out there with film crew He’s out there with some mufon thing Which i i think i’ve already told you Before he shouldn’t be doing that anyway I mean he’s under contract He can’t be out filming with with a Competitive source but Whatever that’s what he was doing and um I have consistently said to mike Leave travis alone Leave him alone like what is it He’s constantly after you he was after Me For quite quite a week 10 days or Whatever Yeah but i i feel your pain i emailed You Twice i think yesterday and the day Before because you remember the email That you sent me Where you said were you at my house at Six in the morning Yeah yeah i thought what the hell travis Why are you asking me if i met you That was a paranoid delusion that mike Said You know yeah and so what was Ryan gordon being what your house is Riding right So i told you what the hell am i going To wear what am i going to go to your House for Like i i that’s stupid i’m down in the Valley either gonna sit in front of your

House But here’s the thing travis i sent you An email where i said here’s the Pictures That that were taken that mike had Publicly posted on facebook Yeah i mean talk about a low club that’s A good deal I mean you could probably clean up your House a bit better let’s do it But now he doesn’t he doesn’t have to Post that one it’s a mess It’s a mess but i know everybody has to Ask themselves I know why is he doing this Well i think kind of the person would Drive 40 miles Just oh i know you’re saying why was Your why was your house in this i have No idea but i I don’t care that your house is a mess I’ve been there i don’t really Well as we both know and i’m sure you’ll Agree with me and thank you for having a Great conversation with me about this But i it might not do anything to throw You under the bus Yeah anything and you and i talked about This we talked for two hours Two three weeks ago whatever it was and We were both of the same persuasions I would encourage everybody to go and Listen to the rest of that sorry Yeah the only part that’s in there it’s

A lot of i was nervous calling him after Seeing all this stuff on facebook there Was a lot of posts like Lion ryan [ __ ] scammer And i i read it and i thought damn i Mean that’s you hear the call Of me calling him up to figure out What’s going on i’d love to know who was Using his phone Or he said he got help but i guess we’ll Never know Very cool though i mean you you were Very professional in your approach all The way through Uh uh you know i liked it It almost slowed down It was quite humorous the ways Where you spoke to him about about about What he had kind of allegedly said Almost like he was playing I i liked that sorry sorry michael I’m not sure what you mean no i’m saying I like the way yeah i’m just curious What you picked up on Thank you for the compliment i i I don’t know what to make of that i Really don’t and the way And i want to come to lee on that but Michael what were you about to say Before i rudely interrupted No i was just praising uh his approach And his professionalism going through uh Giving travis room to kind of

Tread where he wanted to giving him that Open door that opportunity rather than You know jumping on it directly it was Just very well done ryan very well Spoken man Oh thanks i i like travis quite a bit i I know that i’ve been painted as this Villain Ever since talking about gentry but you See travis and i we get along just fine If you listen to his time on jimmy Church he was really respectful never Used my name Like yeah you can hear we get along just Fine That phone call’s not that old and there Is Time stamps in there i mentioned him i Asked him if he had seen erica luke’s Show And he says yes like that’s part of it If your viewers want to hear the rest It’s right there on my channel Well ryan you can send me all send me All the links Over um alien addicts um what’s my email Uk uh dot what is it there we go that’s The one Alien uk gmail.com that’s because Somebody’s still Just normal alien addicts um But yeah at the end of the day i i think That it’s really unfortunate Like um that travis is known as a hoaxer

I want to be really clear that i don’t Agree with that At all even though i know all about Gentry i know how it all happened This was just some small town kids i Mean To me 22 is a kid Trying to go win a big reward these guys Live in the middle of nowhere And things just spiraled out of control And i i i don’t know i don’t really like The word hoax The reason why i was was saying about Mike earlier in the car and the boys Is i was i was trying to get out i was Trying to find out if If mike ever said to you that I drove i was told to drove off he Doesn’t like it Why why he’s never said that if he if He’d have said That he was in on it and he was told to Drop he just He just heard that there was possibly Going to do a Ufo hoax but he never said I talked about mike for a second it’s a It’s a big deal What would happen is after that call Came out i released it travis and mike And i were Collaborating on the release of that Call roughly six weeks before it was Public by the way

Um even down to sending them both the Transcript Of it but uh Might got a lot of flack for for that Call And he would come and say that it was Digitally manipulated Which you probably have all heard by now Um and then of course you would retract That statement and say that the call was Not manipulated however He he made it a point to me and i just To be fair As part of your show mike did tell me After that call i some time had Passed but that’s all right that he Retracts everything he told me so i i do Want to say that as part of the show That mike has since retracted everything You hear in that audio So mike has now said everything that he Said about travis Is false okay and now now mike is back In the the public The public stories everybody you know All right as these stories you know Excuse me um And he he uh again he retracts Everything he said in that quote Part of my frenchman this case is a [ __ ] minefield It’s truly truly watch where Mike was on erica’s show and erica She did a great job and um

He said i don’t know at least three Times that he 100 Stands by the story that it was a Hundred percent Real as told and um Yeah retracts the the information in That call But you do you believe Uh mike’s sort of hoax testimony then Absolutely yeah I i hate the retraction i and i i i all Acknowledge his retraction like i just Did With you guys here but it’s one thing For you guys to hear What was on the the call but it’s Another Of being him um taken up to the side and Shown things Yeah yeah yeah because he does on that Call He does sound disingenuous you know the Way Um the way he rolls from finding an axe To hoaxing a ufo To the fact that after after every Sentence he says to you He’s like okay okay yeah When people do that they’re doing it to Try and convince the person they’re Talking to And to try and convince themselves that They’re telling the truth

Um but on the on the other hand with That i I don’t know what to think about any of This because i i came onto this Earlier today i think because we’ve Spoke about uh travis walton before And when he uh he was on joe rogan i Thought he came across as Just being a complete bullshitter so Yeah a lot of people think completely Confused A lot of a lot of people a lot of people Think that Um yeah frankly Ryan ryan yeah yeah i want lee to answer You this Lee what did you think that telephone Call with travis though Well i mean that sounded genuine that’s You know that he That that was i thought just a phone Call between people wasn’t it do you Know It also sounded he sounded a bit Paranoid as well Um i think if you if you’ve been in this For so long i think he would become Paranoid because don’t forget If right regardless of whether what he Says Is true or not um he’s been telling a Story Since the 70s that He has to convince people is real when

He speaks to them about it Because it’s [ __ ] ridiculous jeremy Likes Real or not it’s a ridiculous thing to Try and tell people That you were abducted by aliens so That’s gonna make you Come across that way surely Right right in that phone call that’s How i’m used to hearing travis all the Time i I didn’t notice anything different with His voice Ollie i gotta go don’t worry rich We’re wrapping this up anyway um so Rich you you head on out mate and uh Good luck tonight What’s the show about it’s about Uh part of it’s about uh mars if we can Survive there and another part is uh Are the ufos especially this recent ufo Alive can they be living organisms and Show some videos beautiful mate Heading over to goof on radio people the Channel is in the description Most of them are phonians in this uh Chat anyway so there you go Thanks man appreciate it no ways and Thanks for joining us tonight rich Thanks guys thanks ryan you guys take Care yeah we’ll see you next time All right see you so We want to continue chatting here i Would question i would

Love to carry on chatting but rich is About to start his show And i i’ve got to have respect for but For the for the goof ons Uh and and make sure that you know he’s Gonna get The the um the people over to his Channel Uh but but ryan i would definitely want To get you on again Um and maybe i’m really apprehensive About continuing to go through the ufo Circuit because i don’t want my My message to come across is i’m trying To Uh disparage a client or receive any Sort of Fame or something from this i i don’t Want that at all No no no i get it no i me you come Across Very very uh um genuine to me You know and uh I think it you i do have a weakness when People tell me what i have and haven’t Done Which i i suppose maybe i lost my Patience there with rich for a second That is a weakness of mind of people Telling me where i have and haven’t been Or what i haven’t have not done So i apologize for that hey if you’ve Got a profession you know And somebody says you’ve not done this

You’ve not done that or somebody Questions something But if you’ve actually been there done That whatever You’re going to get a little bit pissed Off about it yeah I think you mentioned that a little bit Again I apologize if that was inappropriate so Here’s i think some of the viewers might Be confused about this because i’m still Confused about but where does your heart Before you go Where where does it lie in this ryan When it comes to this I feel really disappointed because i Wanted this story to be real And i and i um I feel let down but it was it’s either Way around it it’s still a really great Story And um yeah yeah maybe shot shocked Maybe i’m not sure what the proper word Is but I yeah I i’d be happy to uh Talk with you privately ollie i’m sure i Could be a lot more open But i i’m i’m parsing my words because i Know that this is recorded Yeah i understand you’ve got a career to Think about and uh You know you don’t wanna i get that i Get that

I get that but no mate i i really Appreciate you coming on Send send me your details across on on An email um And i’ll definitely speak in private but You’re welcome on the channel as well At any time let me just clear up one Thing that’s been going around that’s Okay i i want to make it really clear That i I’m not sure where this theory came from That you could see Gentry from turkey springs That’s really i don’t i don’t know who Started that if that came from another Podcast or i have no idea But that is not the case i want to be Really clear You cannot it’s it’s five miles away It’s in in forest of hilly terrain and Up and down like I’m not sure who came up with that Yeah no no mate i You got to clear these things up and uh I i I appreciate that work it’s i appreciate You You you sharing that With us tonight it’s uh it’s interesting Yeah definitely definitely appreciate You ryan yeah Yeah and definitely a good end to the Show so so Ryan i appreciate you and you’re you’re

Right your channel is Oh you know i’ve only had drone videos On there On my channel prior to all of this People people that love ufos love drones Because half of the time they’re looking At drones Gosh i think the last that’s probably True the last video that i uploaded was A couple of years ago i I haven’t used my channel in forever Well anyway it’s orion adventures it’s It’s there There you go stop starting to start Giving us some More drone footage um but But no well i i look forward to having a Conversation with you and you can tell Me all about your work as well Um yeah i have a funny story where i Thought that we saw A ufo all of us out during production Too i can tell you that story sometime I’m always up for a good ufo story it Was a drone To to your point but yeah always Drone our bloom i don’t know Brian thank you so much for joining us Um darko My friend um when you when you’re next Uploading Um that depends on how much i get done Over the next day and a half here Um i’ve got quite a few things on the

Table That i’ve needed to attend to over the Last week of work being out in California with third phase of moon and Goof on Which i did my own work there but there Are a couple of uh things that have Backed up that i’m Jumping into now uh regardless you’ll at Least see an interview next week Uh i would say at least because again Some of these productions i’m trying to Put together let’s let’s see how things Roll Uh but yeah that’s what i can say for The moment over at dark hour paranormal Awesome stuff awesome stuff and osvaldo Franco In the house again my beautiful man he’s Had a nice haircut Um i when’s the channel getting launched Come on Um next couple days uh the discussion Holidays i’m gonna hold you tonight Franco um also i’m on twitter at the Disclosure revolution With esvaldo franco i wanted to make one Quick Uh i had a thought um and traditionally In case Evident trace evidence cases with ufos Um When a car is involved the car has been Magnetized

Like you take a geiger counter or a Compass even And you run it along the side of the car It should act like there’s something Going on magnetically Uh travis apparently kept The car that he was in uh That could press quite possibly Definitively Decide this do you say travis holden Kept the car at the truck That that’s my understanding is that no They they kept the truck No where you’re getting that from is There was an interview done By um called the hannibal tv It’s probably the most popular if you Know anything about trucks that’s like a 1989 ford ranger Oh okay well i’m not in construction Yeah no they don’t they don’t have the And that truck belonged to mike rogers Anyway mike rogers would sell it Uh later and he bought himself a dodge Challenger I wonder if there’s a way of finding out What happened to that is the chain Are you thinking like a radiation thing Or something yeah like they’re They’re they’re they’re there like There’s we have a bunch of ufo cases Involving cars And they’re always magnetized did you Read the did you read the report from

Ground saucer watch or apro On their radiation uh no i didn’t Again i didn’t i didn’t find out Anything about this like Recently until like maybe 24 hours ago Oh no worries So both both agencies that did very Thorough reporting on this With actual scientists scanned the Entire area and there’s there’s no Radiation This whole tree ring thing came as a Result Of it’s only been within like the last 10 years But it’s on record with again apro and Ground saucer watch no radiation in the Area Guys out respect for rich i need to cut This This this show because his show’s just About to start but Lee when’s the new channel coming out Lee is going to be rocking out a ufo Channel that we all want is No it’s going to be a bit vaulty yeah Yeah yeah So something will be coming out this Week there’ll be so there’ll be Something out next time on this show Uh other than that you can go and look At must see audio’s youtube channel for Me to do Funny stuff with my friend susie yeah

And getting Like nearly up to 2 000 views and uh And just all dislikes yeah yeah yeah Germans hate you talking over ramstein They hate it oh jesus Well it’s always the metal guys are we Playing out with susie’s track tonight Do you know what mate we we will play Out but i want to do on a short Show because that deserves [ __ ] Justice because that is an amazing track So unless you want do you think we Should play it out tonight Yeah well her album literally launched An hour ago Okay let’s play out with it yeah you get It shared Everybody um we’re gonna play uh Lee’s lovely lady which she’s not lee’s Lady but lee’s good friend Uh lady friend um and she’s she’s Launching a new album and i have to say It is insanely good uh but boys I will be hanging about for probably About 10 minutes After the show if if any of you watch The chat but i understand if You get off don’t worry about it but lee Get it shed let’s get suzy on because That is one hell of a video I’m just hoping that stream yard shares The audio properly because the audio Is shut it’s fat no please send me i’ll I will share i’ll send it yeah

I think if i share it the audio might be All right we’ll play out Susie’s um new album Bloody great voice and it’s and it’s a Bit it’s a bit You know it’s it’s music that somebody’s Into ufos will like It is it’s a bit weird um I’ll give you the her link tree as well And you can and at least the uh The links for streaming services will be On it okay Let me get that there we go anyhow i’m Going to take off thanks for getting me On at the The last second there i just hope i Could clear up some some questions and Ollie I sent you an email so if you’d like to Continue the conversation you’re more Than welcome to email me back Beautiful i will do i won’t do tonight Because i’m going straight to bed Because i’m going on i’m going i’m i’m Going away in the morning so And it’s it’s it’s early Yeah thank you ryan uh right how do i Share this Fantastic show tonight guys thanks for Having me Yeah he was set he was uh Beautiful I was voted osvaldo does look sharp man Huh and maybe it’s just the lighting

When he looks good over there You’re looking a little younger yeah i’m Loving the new using that face cream i Sent you bro Stuff works that halo is for my Spiritual enlightenment All the ce5 you were doing right oh yeah You know If if da michael If if third phase need a singer but she Well she’s got her own band but This lady she’s one talented Lass right good night god bless you my Little boys Thank you so much and uh I interviewed tyler from secure team Good night We’re still here hello There we go is that full screen that is Full screen there you go There you go let’s bring this up let’s Bring this baby up let’s ramp it up good Night go blessed by the bugs bite Alien addict dark our paranormal we’ll See audio and osvaldo franco with a Fresh Haircut rich that’s just dropped out and Ryan whatever his name was good lad That knows travis and mike rogers there You go I’m trying to press play on actual Stream yet What a prick

I will put this in the description guys Go check it out Stay up thinking Most nights I’m My heart Is Did you notice me The devil my call is So many streets The devil my caller For me Stay up thinking Most nights lately Am i really here Stay up drinking Hey Is I’d like to see

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