Art Bell Interviews Malachi Martin Last Interview, 7 of 7

By | April 11, 2021
Art Bell Interviews Malachi Martin Last Interview, 7 of 7

Malachi martin Eminent theologian Expert on the roman catholic church Former jesuit professor at the vatican's Pontifical biblical institute as the Author of such widely acclaimed national Bestsellers As a final conclave Vatican the jesuits the keys of this Blood Um The most recent of his books actually That's not quite true Long acknowledged as The premier authority on the subject of Possession and exorcism Malachi martin is justly celebrated as a Quote writer of fiery brilliance and Quote that was the detroit news whose Quote work catches the light like rare Waterford crystal Baltimore evening sun Malachi martin is a familiar figure to Millions of you Who welcome and speak with him often During his frequent and outspoken radio And television appearances That's putting it mildly I'm holding in my hand his book hostage To the devil Uh it documents the possession and Exorcism of five americans i believe his Latest book is actually windswept house Or maybe not but i know it is just now

Coming out in paperback father martin Welcome to the program Good morning art and thank you very much For having me it says it's real pleasure Uh it is it's great to have you here sir Oh um we don't do it frequently enough Uh is that correct is is windswept house The most recent of yours it is it's just As you say it's just coming out on Paperback okay and uh it is my most Recent yes All right windswept house i have not had An opportunity to read yet Um but it's my understanding that it's Kind of a How would you describe it as a uh as Sort of a Expose of the of the vatican Yes of the condition of the The prelacy the governors the the Cardinals and bishops that govern this Past 1 billion plus member Uh church the roman catholic and Apostolic church It is It is A study of the condition of that Organization As a world organization for spreading Its gospel its faith Is there a way that you can sort of give Us a nutshell Uh version of what you consider to be

The condition of the church today Yes there is And um let nobody sort of uh Careful at it in the wrong in the Difficult sense of the painful sense of The word But listen to it because it seems to Correspond with reality and after all in The matter of faith and religion It is a matter of attaining What is there for the real It is this that the the book really says Look As far as organization goes As an institution And an organization The vast Roman catholic Church Is on the downed Slope It is losing steadily and heavily And Over two-thirds of its members That's two-thirds of one billion people Are being led into a form of belief Which is irreconcilable With the traditional essence and Outlook and belief of the Roman catholic church as it has been put Almost two millennia in what way for Over 30 years The Majority

Of the governors The directors the managers of this Organization Have been feeding a form of belief which Is not catholic which has made Compromises on basic doctrines which Therefore have led their faithful astray To their beliefs well i'm not a catholic Can you give me an example Example is for instance the purpose of Marriage The purpose of marriage purpose of Marriage yeah the traditional purpose of Marriage according to the catholic Church and up to about 1958 1960 Was the procreation of children i know It sounds harsh right but that was the Doctrine and teaching of the church Incidentally there was the fact that Married people console each other Communicate with each other in a very Special way by marital relations correct But since then The the common teaching is that marriage Has two purposes first of all the Celebration of the love of the parents And then secondarily The procreation of children that's not Roman catholic It should be the other way around the Other way around of course That was the tradition if you want to Depart from that say so but that's what Catholic doctrine is then you take human

Liberty catholic church and christians In general never in the past Said that you had a right to be wrong In religion in religious matters As so a Sort of a big tent approach to religion That's right The new teaching Is new persuasion although it's never Been the official teaching of the church It's just that it is a wave of Of opinion that has been adopted by a Majority is that uh you have a right to Be wrong In religious matters And that is against the nature of the Church And then the chief one The chiefest if i could put it like that Difference is this but Originally up to 1965 The pope was considered To be the head of the church In the sense that he had absolute power Which he shared with nobody in religious Matters Not in secular matters but in religious Matters infallible in infallible yeah And that he alone could Dictate In religious matters under certain fixed Conditions he could determine what People should do and believe in Religious matters

That has been changed to saying that he And all the bishops 400 4 000 500 of them Share the absolute power together They're all colleagues he is first among Equals And this destroys this traditional Uh absolute power of the papacy as the Vicar of christ And as the Source of infallible teaching so it in Essence it It seemingly democratizes the church That's right that's right and then there Are applications all over the place And The the fruit of it all is the the the Tearing to shreds Of traditional belief Whether it's the The blessed sacrament that is the Presence of christ In the sacrament of the eucharist as They call it Catholics believe strictly speaking that Here we have the body and the blood and The divinity of jesus On earth with us By means of a sacrament The new belief is not like that it holds But somehow or other we have another Type of presence which is not Sacramental So

You go on down the line and you find That A a good deal of this one billion plus Members Uh have been led quietly unprotestingly Unknowingly Into another form of belief which is not Catholic and Now it has come to the point that You know uh Students of religion and professors who Demographers religious demographers Those who study large religions like Buddhism hinduism confucianism Catholicism judaism islam They will say and it's true that at any Given moment Apart from crises In any major religion About 25 to 30 percent are fully Practicing The others pull along In moments of crisis and a war etc they Come back to the fold Well In the catholic church today if you take Europe ancient Catholic europe The average is five percent Who even think of going to mass once a Year Or going to confession once a year Or Uh praying

Regularly well there are there are those Uh father who would argue that it is Because the church has not Become progressive that's right that's Right that these numbers are down that People are rejecting That's right They would argue that but you see what Modernization and Progre being progressive Has come down to the adulteration and The dilution of these basic dogmas And that's why the the the The attendance is bad the practice of Faith is bad and on all the chief moral Points On which catholics were adamantly Fixed Like uh Marriage without divorce Um contraception against contraception Against abortion against sterilization Against homosexuality All those points are moot at the present Moment in the majority of so-called Catholic levels How how inside the church did this occur Politically This occurred politically because For three years Between 1962 and 1965 Before the majority of people who are Listening properly were born A meeting took place in rome called the

Second vatican council And the people who emerged as the Controllers of the discussions It was attended by all the bishops of The church at that time And that was roughly 2 800 bishops The people who control their discussions Set out to do precisely that And they were cardinals And bishops and officials They had these ideas they had had them For a long time And by parliamentary stratagems And by very careful uh Assembling of coalitions of votes They got these doctrines these new Outlooks Voted in as Official Dogmas and teachings of the roman Catholic church and they had we had a Pope then for paul vi Who in his weakness went along with Them and that's what happened and you See Remember this that catholics were taught To obey what they were told right and Suddenly their bishops turn around and Say now you will do this now you will Hold this now you will believe in this Way and the majority said all right Unthinkingly besides The doctrines the newly formulated Doctrines are far easier to observe than

The old ones There there must have been a significant War In the vatican over all of this it was a Water of the death It was a a real internecine War between the prelates Between the bishops and the theologians But the the traditionalists the Conservatives Were far less skillful in parliamentary Behavior As regards arranging votes And uh Changing men's minds There were far cleverer than the Traditionalists were So that the conservatives and Traditionalists lost out and found Themselves completely outmanned And outmaneuvered And as i said above all they had a pope At that time politics whom i knew whom We all knew and liked Who was extremely um volatile And was inclined to go along with Anything that helped modernize the Church and who made a famous speech in 1965 at the end of this long vast Three-year meeting Saying that the purpose of the church Was to join man in building the human Habitat And creating man's paradise on earth

And that art was the first time in this Two Millennia history that the roman Catholic church said look i am at your Service completely to build up a Material civilization That was the death knell Of the old organization which now is Agonizing Well you mentioned the severe decline in Attendance yes Um many years have gone under the bridge Since this liberalization if the intent Was to get to bring the flock back Then Uh have we not come far enough to Declare it a failure Yes but there is in question here A very very Subtle but real Uh reality if i speak like that It is called faith Religious faith And catholic doctrine is very very Exact in its teaching about religious Faith It says that if you Tamper with your faith If you In by one compromise or another you Diminish its teaching And are unfaithful to its precepts You lose it Now faith is not a quantum it's not

Something sort of you put in a box it's A dimension Of the soul affecting your Mind and your will and your memory And therefore your sensuality Your entire being If you diminish it to such a point That uh you compromise its basics It slowly is dissipated you can lose Your faith and once you lose it you Don't know you have lost it You do think the other fellow who is Stuck to his faith is a fool Observing things that he needn't observe But what has happened to you Not you are but it has what has happened One is that one state has been Diminished to the point of no return And therefore you don't know you're Wrong in other words the old principle If you lose your face You don't know you've lost it And once you've lost it there is no Guarantee you will ever get it back No Guarantee you will ever realize that Once upon a time you did believe in Certain truths Modernly And fixedly And once it's gone well now the face of Millions has been affected In basic things like the presence of our Lord jesus christ in the sacrament

Like the absolute position of the pope As the only infallible teacher under Certain fixed conditions The nature of marriage the purpose of me Of man human liberty Uh It embraces the entire gamut well then One must ask has the vatican made an Irreversible mistake that's what you Seem to be saying yes the vatican has Made an irreversible mistake as regards The structure of the church And as regards the Uh the the way doctrines should be Taught but when we say vatican though You see vatican is We must understand what vatican is it is Materially it's a gulf sized Uh area On the bank of the type the river tiber In italy yes and there resides the pope And his officials about about four or Five thousand of them That's the vatican strictly speaking and It's in rome it's a part of rome the Capital of italy The vatican Religiously is this collection of Officials and bureaucrats under the Technically speaking under the direction Of the pope Now What has happened is that power has been Transferred from that

Bureaucracy and that people Organization to the bishops themselves They make decisions which the vatican Doesn't like but it has no longer any Power to change well all right um father Martin uh in windswept house you refer Yes to a cardinal a certain cardinal uh Not by name yes uh could that Would that name possibly be cardinal Cassarelli Uh he is mirrored there yes the Character of cardinal castroli by the Way this card you just mentioned Casserole has just died Are passed on yes he's passed on as we Say so then we can perhaps safely Mention his name Yes i think so with No matter how different we are in Opinion from him we must give him a Certain amount of reverence because he Was a prelate and what role did he play In these changes he played a capital Role Because He was the equivalent of what you would Say the Foreign minister And The Secretary of state And chief advisor To at least two popes and he had Tremendous influence in molding the

Attitude of the vatican As a power because it is a power To the communist Empire of the soviet union And then by Derivation on the ordinary activity of Ordinary catholics And his view Was Extremely brilliantly Inculcated and practiced but with Disastrous effects Because in effect he accepted the status Quo In the soviet countries where Catholicism was suppressed And where its representatives were Imprisoned and killed and tortured And he was an extremely Rigid man as regards Devotions And as god's beliefs he had no use for Instance for a central belief of Catholics today which centers around a Small town in portugal called satina And the revelations of fatima and the Miracle which is a genuine miracle by All accounts in 1917 taking place in Portugal which is a very influential Event in the life of the church He was secular minded Compared to his predecessors in that Post And his influence was enormous

Enormous so then the unnamed cardinal in Windswept house is cardinal cassarelli Yes To a large extent the career of Casserole is mirrored in the what we say In the winds that comes about a man Called maestro yani That was the the name that he this man Had to a large extent the effect was Disastrous because he implemented the Policy of Live and let live with the communist Regimes And Establish relations with them it was the First time that you'd find a cardinal of The holy roman catholic church clinking Glasses In the kremlin with those who at that Same time were persecuting his Fellow co-religionists throughout the Soviet empire Well going back even further there was Also The sound of clinking glasses with the Nazis was there not yes there was yes There was But that was in that that was never the Vatican the vatican never clinched Glasses with with nazis There was continual friction because the Man in charge of the church at that time Was a man called patchelli eugenio Pachelli better known as paris the 12th

And uh he abhorred the nazis And he abhorred fascism as such And uh he did his best to condemn them In a very difficult situation you are Probably a lot of our listeners are Acquainted with the controversy about Pius xii the pope but that he Ever had any love whatever For hitler's company uh Is is an established fact he had none Ever And there was no clinking a blast now Individual clergyman did but they were Always reproved by him And if possible From their particular location wherever They were If these changes as you have described Are irreversible within the church yes Then where is the church going In one word underground Underground underground yes The structure as it is Is creaking and groaning And not carrying the weight Uh and there is bringing up Both in north america and latin america And in europe A network Of catholics priests bishops nuns Who Are reviving all the ancient teachings And living by them and refusing To cooperate with anything they consider

To be out of line anything they consider Not to belong to the Deposit of the faith the traditional Faith Now to be awfully frank with your art And to be friends with all my fellow my Fellow catholics throughout the world At the present moment that network Probably includes What about 10 million Practicing Out of one billion But it is most potent and the the best Proof Of its potency and its uh power and its Promise Is the fact that it is hounded And condemned and excoriated By the official drum of the roman Catholic church so Then Where do you what do you ultimately see Occurring i mean you've got an Underground a fractional portion of the Church Underground uh will it survive will it Build or it will survive and build and Flourish but in the meantime The external presence And the influence Of the catholic community If you can speak of such a thing Nowadays That presence in the public square

In the public market of ideas and Organizations That is going to diminish and diminish And be negligible To such an extent that you know are Today if you examine any country even North korea Or albania to dreadfully distressed Lands at the present moment but in all The other countries anyway you can Basically say there are three components One is the government the government is Always important nowadays there's Houston to be But now it is terribly important And number two you have the business Community And the business community In many countries is far more important Than the actual government of the Elected officials if the officials are Elected And number three then you have a gaggle A rabble of organizations everything From the international firemen's union To mothers against drunk driving to the Catholic church And they are competing in the public Square With diminishing shares going to Religion especially roman catholicism Because roman catholicism is not does Not belong to the mainstream thought Today

If you examine for instance the emerging Eu the european union yes it now has Laws that are intolerable for catholics Every member of the union must according To the laws of eu the european union Which is just coming into existence Economically and politically they must Have laws promoting abortion permitting Abortion permission contraception Permitting divorce They must give equal rights to Homosexual marriages and all these Things are unbearable in a world in Which catholicism reigns But now As different from 50 years ago 60 years ago or 100 years ago the Catholic church is just one more member Of these ngos non-governmental Organizations Competing in the public square With decreasing returns because The doctrine does not fit Modernization now what is the future The future is a diminishing Socio-political and socio-cultural Effect of catholics The dispelling of anything like a potent Catholic Community And the Existence of catholicism in its Traditional form Underground in the sense that it's

Private And practiced Quasi in secret And out of the public view because the Public doesn't like it Uh And there will always be not always but There will be for quite a long time a Public facade Uh in which there is uh there is a group Of Officials bishops priests Uh all the way up to the papacy Who will maintain the exterior facade But the power will be gone Interestingly enough the future of the Papacy is Different Because of the Power that the papacy exerts as a center But yes that's a wider question yeah it Will be you're saying it will be Different or is different in It it really will belong to the Mainstream there'll be very little Difference between it and the other Component members of the socio-political Body are you suggesting the pope has Been reduced to nothing much more than a Figurehead Yes i am that is what i am saying and That is the fact That is in the actual effect on politics And on culture

There no longer is really a catholic Influence In this country or in north america or In latin america there's no longer any Real influence at all And it's a diminishing influence that They do exert and every year brings Defeat after defeat after defeat for Instance take a very common example a Very prevalent example art there's a Play called corpus christi By a playwright very well known terence Mcnally Irish origin of course It is uh the plot is roughly that you Have a central figure called Joshua which is jesus And he has 12 disciples and he has Homosexual relations with those Disciples In the play Now Uh For the roman catholic doctrine for Roman catholic believers This is blasphemy And yet there is no way roman catholics Can stop this Can get it removed the more they talk About it the more publicity they give it And that is the big difficulty that There no longer is any respect Veneration For

Central doctrines of the roman catholic Church well then uh father if all of This is true And so much of the world is catholic in Name in name at least Then what effect would you imagine this To have on society in general it's a Much broader question if If we're going to be accepting now the Unacceptable previously how will this Change society or is that already Underway That's already underway art and the Effect is a diminishing return In moral influence in other words what Is said by the church is no no longer Carries the weight it once did that's Right that's right for instance there's No doubt about it the majority of Catholics in northern ireland Are believers Everybody seems to accept this it is True but in no way has that really Influenced politics No more than the protestantism of the Orange men The other the their counterparts in Northern now has that influenced their Morality you know what a mess over there Right now but a real mess but the point I'm making is that neither the catholic Church nor the protestant church has any Influence Over the behavior either of the ira

The irish Or the catholics or the protestants so Then minus this influence what what Effect do you see it having on society A destabilizing effect Because Look in the absolute order supposing Imaginatively in our imaginations now Art you and i and our listeners we wipe Out the existence of the catholic church That no longer is the catholic church Existing in this in this hypothesis Right and no pope no bishops no Cathedrals no churches no religious Orders no Schools no academies and no institutes No influence they simply they belong to Museums if you do that if there was if Such a happening did take place A black hole would appear In human society uh because The catholic church culturally Socioculturally Through its Religious influence and its religious Monuments and its religious tradition Does exercise a restraining hand If that's gone Then all demographers i know say it will Be it will be catastrophic Completely catastrophic just as if if In arab land from algeria to indonesia Islam suddenly disappeared There would be chaos

Because religion does Whether it's islam or catholicism In their particular lands do introduce a Socio-cultural balance And that is why The real enemies of the roman catholic Church and the roman catholic church has Real enemies never wanted to destroy the Organization It's too Valuable as a socio-cultural and Socio-political stabilizer they want to Control it if it no longer has that Value Then will the same restriction on its Destruction remain yes it will It will and they of course nobody can Predict the future nobody can say what Is going to happen in 2020 2030 2050 And 3000 we don't know even if we will Attain that age for the church or for The human race if we will go through Most of the next millennium we don't Know But we can safely say certain things That the diminishing return Of the influence of anything like a Catholic community For boats or boats simply bodes a Terrible absence In social and political life Would you imagine at some point um Homosexual priests Are we to imagine um

The ending of the institution of Marriage as we have known it How are we to imagine a church that will Accept uh any anybody's conception of Um god and religion and How it was and how it is art we have it Already To a large extent we have it already In certain directions In the united states that the jazz has Been the locality governed by a bishop There are married priests Living with their families yes in Contravention of the law of the church Of celibacy There are homosexual priests Organizations here and abroad And in latin america There are women priests that is that Women who have undergone ordination Ceremonies and who faithfully save what They call mass Every so often Investments with the chalice etc with The usual accoutrements of a roman mass There are bishops Who openly flaunt The authority of the pope And the basic dogmas of the church We're well run our way There is two which we must keep on Saying there is a large body of Catholics of that of that one billion Plus membership

A large number of catholics who grown Beneath this who know it's wrong But who can't do anything about it Because again The organization of the church is very Tight And if you started the pope and go down To the smallest little parish priest Stuck away in the smallest little parish You will find that in no position of Authority anywhere in that vast network Of organizations of bishops and priests And organizations and committees and Thousands and parishes in no place is There one traditional list They have all been outed and ousted So the the prognosis is bad From the point of view of Socio-political presence and Socio-cultural influence Now what will what will happen after That is you could one can hypothesize But that's the situation And that's really the purpose of Windswept house as a book to to expose All of that that's right windswept house And it took place In the 20 years Chiefly in the 20 years of pope john Paul ii Whom Many people Describe As a conservative a traditionalist

Um i understand that windswept house is Available nationwide in bookstores or it Ought to be Uh It ought to be but then uh i guess some People have been unable to find it That's right but that there is a I can give if you permit it i can give An address where they can always apply For a copy of the paperback please It is Therefore tonality martin Care of Postbox pob295 Lodi lodi Wisconsin Five three five five five They will always get a copy by Uh corresponding with that address Repeat that again pob295 Lodi lodi wisconsin Zip code five three five five five how Much trouble are you in with the church Well you see this is the very Interesting point about his art Um I go i visit rome I see the people i want to see including John paul ii Not as often as i used to because the Fact that this pope's health is Precarious And besides he is surrounded by people Who not only dislike me but just like

Him One man whom i know Uh sees the pope professionally in the Health field Will tell me constantly look when i see The officials around him There's more hate than affection for the Pope and respect for this man all right To summarize the first hour with father Martin Father martin is a Conservative within the church uh even a Fundamentalist He suggests that the church has Irreversibly Uh begun to move away from All of its original teachings and tenets Irreversibly so once again And that this will produce changes of Course in society because The church not only the catholic church But churches And religions worldwide Have been pillars on which Societal behavior Is based and i think that pretty well Sums it up Uh windswept house Uh is a A novel it is Fiction Except It isn't fiction is it father No it's not

But it's far easier And allows some Room for your imagination and therefore For explanation Of what is happening A dire happening To the roman catholic church Which Up to What 40 years ago Was a monolith In society Europe and the americas especially But worldwide too And uh to describe this of course you're Going to walk on several people's feet And you're going to have to discuss Existing people Which one must always do with reverence A certain respect because they are there And their office they hold high office So The mode of We we actually are you know in america We've invented this the man who really Made it work was norman mailer but even An american writer like taylor caldwell She used what we now call faction it's Not fiction It's mirroring The factual situation by imaginative Processes And um this is an example of what they Call a faction well would you go so far

As to say that within uh portions of the Vatican There is virtually a satanism Oh no doubt about it no doubt about it Then why Walk so carefully Because eventually First of all art there's a thing called Scandal Scandal in this sense that um Sometimes to tell the naked truth To people Is so shocking That it is destructive of them If you can Point the way To the truth And indicate If they wish to search themselves They can find the truth it's far more Effective Than Overwhelming them with such bad news That they lose heart People must have a good motive for Existing At least they must think they have a Good motive for existing No man can exist On nothing You must have some motivation And you can destroy The confidence in life By painting an utterly accurate

But bleak picture So no one must be careful one must not Scandalize in that sense But one must try and Point to the truth and educate people Slowly i have Beautiful friends in the catholic church And in other churches and in other Religions but talking about my catholics And i i i hesitate to disturb them in Certain ways Knowing that with wisdom and the years And prayer And their own goodness they will arrive At the full truth In the meanwhile i must temper my Critiques And my criticisms so as not to Completely shocked them I think it's a it's a common phenomenon Well uh unless you expect uh this Movement to remain underground for Nearly all eternity ahead Isn't there going to have to be a shock Oh yes oh yes ultimately yes there's no Doubt about it and but i could say this I dislike predictions in spite of the Fact that my name maliki is the name of A prophet a minor prophet in the hebrew Bible I was like predicting that This can't go on for long within the Catholic church Something is going to give it's going to

Implode Something is going to give you that will Be the day of reckoning Can you imagine the mechanism Uh by which Something will give Yes i can imagine the mechanism how well Without naming names which is always uh Yeah I could name off in the american bishops There are about 250 of them yes i could Name of 20 to 30 to 40 Who Are quite capable of taking up a stance As regards Uh Church morality And church practice at complete variance With rome and saying jerome Like it or lamp it You're talking about a revolution Yes A clerical Uh resistance to all Advances by the traditional roman Authority I can quite imagine it and in france and In austria And in belgium and in holland And in italy and in spain and in ireland Tradition i'm poland traditional Catholic places I can see that

That's fire taking place And people say no no no no we're Catholics but we don't share your Opinions And going their way which of course will Be fragmentation And complete destruction of church unity Such as it is could there be a complete Schism Well Uh That is the part which saddens one's Heart Schism is a very interesting thing Schism means this that you and i who Believe the same truths the same Religious dogmas We differ as to authority yes That's schism And i i have beautiful schismatic Friends in the greek church and the Russian church And in the protestant churches They all believe the basic truths that i Believe But they will not acknowledge any Authority of the pope or of the The episcopal line descending from the 12 apostles which roman catholics claim And that's quite bearable that i can see As schismatics possibly being saved Finally and attaining heaven speaking Strictly as a tradition as catholic Uh heresy is something else heresy is

Where you and i agree on a majority of Doctrines but we differ about one Particular doctrine And um again there are some beautiful Heretical friends Who are heretics but whom i respect Deeply No art what we're facing Is something much more dire And the bible has named it already it's Called apostasy An apostasy As defined by the man who really lived Through the apostasy a man called Athanasius In the three hundreds and four hundreds Of our of our of the first millennium Uh apostasy means that you step away From the basic Dogmas of the christian faith so that You can no longer be called a christian Or a catholic We are faced with apostasy Not merely apostasy by scholars Academicians professors theologians but Apostasy in the people there is a Spreading apostasy all right perhaps This fact that i've got is an example Will serve as an example and you can Address it's from tom in michigan and he Says Tonight for the first time i've got to Dispute uh father martin But he's saying we do not have the right

To be wrong this goes against all i've Been taught i was taught By my catholic upbringing that god god Gave each of us free will To say we do not have the right to be Wrong Means that we do not have free will That we all should just follow blindly That we have absolutely no control over Our lives because we are controlled If you don't have the right to be wrong It is the pinnacle of contradictions We are all wrong if there is one And only one correct guideline And we would all have certainly sealed Our fate or should i say our fate has Been sealed for us because we cannot be Wrong Which is it Do we or do we not have Free will We have free will But if that free will is correctly Defined That free will is The liberty to choose what is right It's not simply Caprice whim whatever i want i do Whatever i want to believe i do believe That's not freedom that's that's that's Not The christian idea of liberty was never That And number two

Uh Also We He must remember it's a very intelligent Question But he must remember that The uh The choice The choice to be made must be made with God's grace because otherwise we make Choices which have nothing to do with God at all or with the truth of man's Existence So It's what you consider to be liberty and Liberty is best defined as The ability To do what you should do To believe what you should believe And you are not free to believe anything That you think is okay You must align that with the revelation As it came through jesus christ And his church If not You're on the wrong line It's a hard doctrine but that's Catholicism and that is basic Christianity the kind of dispute or Level of dispute that you're talking About within the church now Uh is very severe indeed and the last Time you and i met on the air It was on the eve

Of two murders in the vatican It was on the heels of news about the Murder of a colleague of yours an Exorcist that's right And both of those stories have Disappeared Just simply Gone away and one cannot help but wonder If there is not about to be a war within The church itself And if we're not going to see more Of this kind of terrible unimaginable Violence I think uh unfortunately i must agree With you We are going to see much more of that Because The strains The strain in the church Is going to be is going to show It will not be merely indifference Where people simply say it doesn't Matter you can do what you like I'm just don't bother about this Catholic business this catholic truth This catholic church is carefully Priests and laws It's not merely that It's that They There is now a mainstream Choice In morality And outlook

And standards of living That is irreconcilable With Catholicism and with basic christianity To such a point that It is already a great liability to be a Practicing catholic to be a practicing Christian is the big liability in the Public square It is difficult and it's going to get More and more difficult however as one Man said the present moment is dry Martyrdom it could become wet Though And then we have outbursts like what Happened in the vatican which is a Dreadful Event And a a bad omen And we have then the The murder the assassination of at least Not really one art by the way but three Um people engaged in exorcism it's Really really yes they weren't Publicized the other two were not Publicized have these occurred since the Last that we knew about One of them before and one of them after Oh my goodness yeah but they have not Been publicized as you know there's a General principle in the Civil authorities in this country and It's a good one In general that you do not emphasize if

You come across Death And there are obvious signs of satanist Worship satan's evolution it is not Publicized it is not publicized if that Part is hidden and kept quiet because Why well Because it disturbs people because it is Disturbing Because there's also the Copycat Syndrome there is yes people do say well I'll do that too you know The local nut or somebody said said i Better do that too because investigating Well with your with your very Fundamentalist views um And the very provocative things you have Said uh have there been moments farther When you have Been unsure of your own safety Oh art i am never sure of my safety any Longer For many years For many years In in this sense That i know That Given certain conditions i'd i would be Offed as we say in the gentle language Um But At the age of 77 How can you start bothering about that

I certainly agree Certain certain moments i have brushed Had a brush with death which Um of course left me cold as this always Does but the clammy hand extended to you Momentarily anyway But I i i can't i can't live like that or Think like that otherwise i would Dig a hole and climb into it and close It after me you know What's the point in that father um not Long ago Somebody sent me and i i'm kicking Myself six wives from sunday yeah uh Somebody sent me What they said was the third secret of Fatima yes I actually read it on the air and then i Somehow lost it if anybody out there has It please resend it to me now it's my Understanding That you have taken a vow Of silence or secrecy uh you have read The third secret it was shared with you Is that correct it was given to me to Read yes one Morning early In february 1960 And of course before i got it i had to Take this simple oath you always take Of maintaining the secret so the details Of it i cannot communicate in the Actual verbiage and expressions yes if

Um If this third secret of fatima were made Public yes could it be the shock That The public that The church needs It could be And that is one reason why it's not Published And why it's sunk into a limbo Out of which it's not going to come Easily It would be a shock there's no doubt About that It would affect people in different ways Though art um some people would On being told that this was Authentically the third secret of fatima They would get extremely angry Oh i understand believe me very angry All right here we go uh and i really Want to thank the person that Transcribed this for me The following is a transcription of what Is possibly the third secret of futima As read by artville over there on coast To coast am on 5 14 98 at 34 minutes and 48 seconds into the program and i began It with this preamble all right I in no way want the following as being Authentic I have no way of knowing All i can tell you is it feels real It is alleged to be the third secret of

Fatima you decide for yourself here we Go a great plague will befall mankind Nowhere in the world will there be order Satan will rule the highest places Determining the way of things He will succeed in seducing the spirits Of the great scientists who invent arms With which it will be possible to Destroy a large part of humanity In a few minutes Satan will have his power The powerful who command the people And who will incite them to produce Enormous quantities of arms God will punish man more thoroughly than With the flood There will come the time of all times And the end of all ends The great and powerful will perish Together with the small and weak Even for the church It will be the time of its greatest Trial Cardinals will oppose cardinals bishops Will oppose bishops Satan will walk among them And in rome there will be changes The church will be darkened And the world will be shaking with Terror One great war will erupt in the second Half of the 20th century Fire and smoke will fall from the sky The waters of the oceans will change

Into steam And the steam will rise and overflow Everything The waters of the ocean will become Missed Millions and millions of people will die From hour to hour Whoever remains alive will envy The dead Everywhere one turns one's glance there Will be um There is going to be anguish and misery Ruins in every country The time draws nearer the abyss widens Without hope The good to perish with the bad The great with the small The princes of the church with the Faithful the rulers with their people There will be death everywhere because Of the errors committed by non-believers And crazy followers of satan Which will then and only then take Control over the world At the last those who survive will at Every chance newly proclaimed god and His glory and they will serve him As when the world was not so Perverted That's it father martin Yes art any comments on that i've Listened to that Um And i suppose the

The measured response i should give to It Is this um In two parts really Two statements It is not the text Which was given to me to read Okay In 1960 there are elements in it which Belong in the text So uh in other words I'm trying to step as carefully as i can In other words you're suggesting this is Not precisely what you have but there Are elements of what you just heard yes There are elements which Do belong In the third secret Um That's about the most measured response I could give to it I am okay that's fine and i i will not Ask you to say more But Bearing in mind what i just read yes Would you consider the third secret to Be As traumatic as is suggested in what i Read or more so also More so more so yeah Much more much more so The The Without again

You know are stepping very carefully yes Sir uh the The central element in the third secret Is awful And it's not in that Thank god Um Now I guess i would ask this i understand That you have taken an oath that's right But have you Considered that the shock that is Required To Turn things around May be this very serious and and that it May be That Um It should be revealed to your last Sentence my full ascent it should be Revealed But Here's my difficulty art I'm one small little man I have no public authority to Do that I do not know If that would be the will of god And since it will have such dire effects On Much more than christians Or many others I

I can't make that decision do you Understand what i'm trying to say Yes i i i can't make that decision i Have no I have no assurance that's god's will And since this is A question of his supreme will as Regards the world Human race Its existence in its continuance and its Future I I have no authority father in what Manner were you shown the third secret Because The cardinal who showed it to me Had been present at a meeting Held by pope john xxiii Uh In that year 1960 To outline to a certain number of Cardinals And problems What he thought should be done with Secret John the 23rd Pope john the 23rd then pope in 1960 Did not think That he should publish the secret It would ruin His At that time Ongoing negotiations with nikita Khrushchev the boss of all the russias

And he also Had a different outlook on life Which In Two years later opening the vatican Council He echoed very Succinctly and almost contemptuously In the middle of his speech on october 11 1962 in saint peter's to the Assembled bishops who had come for the Vatican council and The visitors the place was crowded Huge basilica He derided Contemptuously The people he called prophets of doom And there was no doubt in any of our Minds He was talking about The pre prophets of fatima He was against that There are those within the church Who minimize What is uh Contained in the third secret absolutely And then there are others who don't Minimize it at all they exaggerate they Exaggerate yes uh so without minimizing Or without exaggerating you're telling Me that's what's in the third secret is More horrible than what i just read Which oh yes it is because What you have just read

Essentially It is the onslaught Of natural powers Sure satan is walking etc like that Amongst men But essentially it is as if nature Revolted against human race That's essentially what through all These terrible catastrophes and justice And that's not the essence of the third Secret And not the frightening one Yeah Um It does bigger the imagination Well Again in a sense uh it would be such a Shock that i understand that You have grave reservations about it but If it would If it would in effect Um right the church Yeah yeah i if it would but you know art I have no guarantee I have no authority it would say yes This the net result will be plus Rather than minus I have no authority I have no revelation no angel has tapped Me on the shoulder i've had no private Divine dream like saint joseph or Joseph in the old testament had I have no Authority and i cannot arrogate to

Myself Uh that authority because i may be Putting my foot in my mouth In a mild fashion i may be Going ahead of the lord and we're Supposed to walk in the woods of one Roman saint Five yards behind the holy ghost the Holy spirit I i i and besides that Uh art there's the question of shock Scandal of Of frightening people And polarizing My human society to which i belong And which i'm happy to belong because God made me to belong to it As a member of the human race and i Cannot do that Not not Just like that I just can't i wish i could Because in human calculation yes this Will shock this will uh jerk people out This will fill the confessionals on a Saturday evening this will Fill up the cathedrals and the basilicas And the churches with worshippers Kneeling down striking their breath Maybe Maybe Because at the back of it all are as This regnant Reigning as it were catholic truth

That nothing like that can happen unless God gives the grace and i have no Authority to presume that he will give Me the grace Give the grace on the occasion of my Doing anything like that With what uh how much weight father do You give To the uh entire Fatima revelations I consider it to be the key event In the Declining fortune Of the roman catholic organization And the defining event for the near Future of the church in the second in The in the next millennium the third Millennium It's the defining event And that is why A strong man A strong man i mean See ash when we speak about strong men The the amazing thing about the Statecraft People people who practice the craft of State like casserole who's just died or Pope john paul ii Uh Is what people always remark say about Great figures in history like napoleon Like hitler like stalin They had a will Of indestructible power

And they could oppose The united wills of millions And make their point of view stick to a Certain degree anywhere until they came Until they fell so they became a cropper As we say in england And similarly in rome there are men with Strong wills they spacecraft all their Lives They are engaged in macro government not Merely of religion but in state They're up there amongst the greats And they Will not touch this with a barge pool In what way Does The church have a role In what many see coming as A one World Government a one World control point There are two responses to that are very Brief responses one is The response already chosen Chosen By the leaders by the managers by the Prelims By the Papacy at the end of the night of this Millennium And then there is What one Sometimes thinks will be

God's response the response at the Present moment is this Beginning with john the 23rd Pope john 23rd and then with paul vi and Now with john paul ii the response is Let us cooperate It is joined as paul the fick said in His famous speech and In december 1965 has cooperated with man To build this habitat And john paul ii is an ardent Supporter Of um The tendency to one world government for Geopolitical reasons He he wants to bring in his the brand of Christianity of course and catholicism Um but he certainly is in favor of it And there's no When he addressed the united nations In his last big letter to them He um His salute was this i John Bishop of rome And a member of humanity Now this was no longer what say pius the Ninth applies to tenth place the tenth Would have said at the beginning of this Century that i am the vicar of jesus Christ If you do not listen to my voice Then you are going to be damned forever And we will not participate in any

Government Behavior Uh in any government plans which do not Recognize the kingship of christ That is completely absent There now is the the the Policy of cooperation with the formation Of the european union With the cooperation of cooperation with The united nations And the the the the the The vatican and the church has entered They live in the struggle Amongst the uh the assembly and the General assembly of the united nations And in the non-governmental Organizations what we call the Eco-fucking go organization so it's well Underway well underway that is the Response And um Remember the vatican has you know on Vatican hill it has about What The figure varies somewhere over 140 Ambassadors from the nations It is an integral part and has built Itself into it over the centuries Of the of our international life and it Has its own Ambassadors and representatives in over 90 countries Um including russia including israel It has its representative in beijing not

Quite a diplomatic status yet but then We'll get to that All right father martin again referring To what i read which you said had Partial Um echo relevance as well yes uh would You imagine that the person who wrote This uh had been privy in some way to The original text yes yes yes certainly At least by word of mouth if not by i Understand reading all right father uh Hold on all right i'll say for my own Edification uh that if anybody else has What they consider to be A valid copy of the third secret of Ephemera why by all means Send it to me and i am Curious about just one thing father um If I actually got a copy of the precise Text yes And i were to read it and ask you if That was In fact correct I would have to say yes if it were I see i couldn't tell you would lie if i If i want to sort of travel i could say I can't uh uh i can't ask And i'd be able to yourself which in Itself would be an admission it Certainly would um all right very good Then i'm going to leave it at that and Hope that somebody will send me the text And we'll try it out on you first time

Caller line you're on the air with Father malachi martin hello Yes father where are you sir i'm in Atlanta georgia atlanta all right um i Wanted to comment on the uh a third Secret yeah um I'm i'm doing a little bit of Speculating here but um i converted to Christianity uh a couple of years ago But uh what i came out of was A very difficult religion being the Exact antithesis of christianity And uh When i was in that In that religion I heard many many things One of the things that i heard That i feel strongly relates to this is Um With regard to that third secret which Has to do with uh this european system That is coming to pass now And um Something that i heard was that there Was going to be an unholy trinity that Would Basically mock the holy trinity Coming out of that european system and Basically a super dictator coming out of Germany who would be the beast The man of sin coming from france And Basically the antichrist coming from the Seat of the vatican

I'm very terrified about this obviously My voice is trembling well don't be sir Don't be afraid Uh it's what i've heard and what i know Do not be afraid Because uh your fear Your fear does not come from god And your fear is a weapon used By your Mortal enemy The devil satan lucifer whatever you Want to call it And Do not let it dominate you in the Slightest way But take refuge and hide In the wounds And the passion And the life and resurrection of jesus And he will dispel your fears Fear is just a weapon used against you To Unbalance your soul Don't let it dominate you Please Do not let it dominate you i will pray For you And um you did come out Of a Luciferian Uh form of religion And your soul hasn't been destroyed Unfortunately there are some people that Were left behind

I know but you know It's every man for himself when it comes Down to this Try to do your best pray for them Because unless they get grace from Christ they won't be they won't be Changed But do not fear All right caller yeah i'm i'm fine i'm Just it's just this this um you know the The mass media blitz you keep hearing About you know the Coming of armageddon and all this Pre-millennium tension and a lot of you Know while it's been what i've been Through in my life i've had a very Unusual life and very spiritual life Which is very just been very difficult For me to come to terms with And um There's been so much religion in my life Ever since i was a very very young child And um i've been exposed to so many Forms of religion and It's just i mean the things i can tell You Happened in my life and the things that I've seen You know yes Let's ask this father martin uh he Mentioned there is so much Pre-millennial tension and there is sure There's a great deal of it uh is it Justified to a lot to a certain degree

No it's not justified But then There's The justification arise from this art That I think If You have done the reflection necessary There are such huge questions Being decided Beyond our will you understand me beyond Our oh i do capacity i've touched them Princess i am a citizen i vote you're a Citizen you vote but we know you and i But that by the time our vote which we Which we faithfully record each time There's an election local state or Federal Or presidential that by the time it Reaches Those who make the laws which govern us It is much diluted Because of our political system And um We know that decisions are made And not at the will of the american People for instance the will of the Canadian people But the will of people who govern the Uh The flow Of capital and capital goods throughout The world each day on which our world Now depends

And that is such a hazardous situation As we've all learned watching the asian Tigers crumble into puppies And the biggest asian tiger japan Faltering When five years ago it was threatening Our economy remember that time And now it's not And we have this precarious balance of The european union britain is in and It's not in germany is the great power But it isn't By the way france is the most Economically sound member of europe France And not because they won the the the Soccer uh victory But uh Somebody said frost didn't win brazil Just lost Well uh as a matter of fact it's Interesting you should mention all this Number one i just got back from paris i Was there during world cup oh you were i Saw the Um Uh the brazilian uh loss It was a loss i mean it is tear breaking Um It was an amazing game and i guess Brazil just didn't come to play no Justin Wasn't up to par Something happened to me in paris that i

Would like to ask you about father what Is that I have had over the years many many Guests on What is called an out-of-body experience Where people think that Their soul or their being actually Leaves their body yeah I Have heard many descriptions of how this Occurs that frequently there is a Feeling of being paralyzed and a large Humming sound And then people will find themselves Outside their body right i was lying in A hotel room in paris yes and something Happened to me father It's There was no humming There was no feeling of being paralyzed But Never in my life have i experienced this And i have a hard time finding words to Describe but i'll do the best i can Suddenly I Without question accelerated At an Indescribable speed up straight up Into a place That didn't have form And didn't have things that i saw But it had Indescribable

Joy Um It had It had the most satisfying incredible Feeling I've ever felt it was very short i was Very shocked very surprised by it it was Brief and i came a chop I came right back that fast and i woke Up my poor wife And and and sat there saying i I don't know this was you know i've had In my life flying dreams before and when I wake up i recognize that i have been Dreaming i did not dream this is Something that happened to me no no that Was an out-of-body experience in the Technical sense of the word Not that you left your body But It does happen It's very interesting sometimes you must Scribble on a bit of paper the name of The place you were sleeping And what part of paris i didn't want to I didn't It was so amazing and so Startling and so overwhelming that i i Wanted i wanted to have it again right Away i didn't want to i know i lose it But you you can't you can't recall it You can't call it back you can't make it Really happen all over again no if it's Genuine and you it didn't you weren't

Able to recall it Uh i i must tell you uh if that does Happen to you It's a privilege and because it is Joy making And exhilaration making And ultimately peacemaking and Confidence-making Is it from god Remarkable remarkable it's very hard to Explain it And by the way you don't try to recall It and you don't try to explain it you Do express your thanks in your Particular way that's right in your own Way you must express your thanks And It will come unbidden and go away at its Own pace Uh it is sudden it is intuitive Uh it does belong its trans senses Beyond your senses and quite rightly it Had those marks there was no paralysis There was no none of that none of that No no physical sounds like humming or no No no no no That's the marks of uh you see after the General principle who might have Explained that to an old master like you There's a general principle that the Discernment of spirit as they call it If an experience Such as this Brings peace brings joy brings

Exhilaration Doesn't breathe in your arrogance and Pride but gratitude Great gratitude i'm i'm old i'm not a Master Well but when it does that's from god All good things come from above come From god And That you can treasure it And by the way if you want to There there will be a memory of that Forever Within you Um Don't try and member remembers it will Come back of its own accord To remind you whether it's repeated or Not something else anyway all right i'm Bouncing back for a second to the third Secret here's a fact from bob and Leclair wisconsin it's kind of rough it Says art Why would god give this prophecy Referring of course to the third secret To a select few and instruct them not to Give it to his people it sounds to me That it is man who has decided to keep It a secret from the people and not god Can there be any greater sin Than this Well Whoever this man is Is

On target The secret was meant to was meant for The people not for the pope Not for the bishops not for the holy Office It was meant to be published In 1960 By explicit order By the mandate of heaven John the 23rd God bless them and arrest him because He's with god now In whatever form that is He decided not to He had his own reasons We think With all due respect and generation etc Etc etc that he made a very bad mistake And indeed What probably your correspondent from Wisconsin doesn't realize or perhaps he Does let me remind him that in 1963 There was a second appearance This time in spain in garabandal And the opening words of that revelation Were because My sons have not listened to my orders My mandate Here's what's going to happen And the message was very dire Repetition of the third secret in brief Form So It wasn't the will of god the will of

God has been frustrated but you see but Let me remind you and and and that the Particular man That the will of god is frustrated Continuously And that doesn't mean it wasn't his will And his will will not work out finally So It's a pity And eventually eventually the secret Will be revealed And will work its way out But this time Painfully Painfully all right father wild card Line you're on the air with father malik Martin good morning hi good morning it's An honor father i visited your website And i left a message a while back uh i Don't know you're probably very busy no No i take all my messages i download Them all oh and go over them i i guess i Related to you that ever since i was Young i had a sort of a I wouldn't say premonition i don't think It was that Sophisticated was more subtle That Everything It seems to be without purpose Now i guess what i'm trying to ask now Is i'm 37 years old yes i don't have the Same um Love of life that my friends have yeah i

Seem to have in the back of my mind the Sense that well it's all pretty much for Nothing Now it isn't depression per se But it but it is a sort of a i thought Of an intuitive thing that well maybe Everybody's putting a little more Into this thing and they'll ever be able To take out and it's worth it yeah and And i thought to myself has this to do Perhaps with a premonition or some sort Of sense Of what may be coming in this case we've Mentioned the third secret of fatima i'm 37 years old let me ask then by the time I'm 45 while i see these terrible things If they are However terrible they may Be if i were to sort of Abandon any Strict Control And give you what i think That's what you're asking I think since you're 37 by the time you Were 45 You will have seen the worst My god Now but add this in to the Fact of this following thing in You have an angel a guardian angel You also have a birthday angel The the latter was assigned to you on Your birthday the guardian engine was

Assigned to you when you were just a Little zygote clinging to the Endometrial wall of your mother's womb They Accompany you Some people They start talking to them very early on Other people they don't It all depends on the angel and depends On one or oneself I would classify this as belonging to Your angels messages molding you And it may be that you will be demanded God will demand something of special of You Since he's given you something special i Do not know sir i don't know you I probably will never talk sir we've got To hold it there i'm afraid okay i very Much appreciate your call father martin I'll hold on just a moment and we will Be right back all right uh what i'm Going to do is read just the preamble to This and see if The good father finds uh Identification with this uh it says Do not worry dear child it is i the Mother of god speaking to you and asking You to proclaim in my name the following Message to the whole world In doing so You will meet strong opposition be firm In your faith however and you will Triumph over all opposition

Listen and remember well what am i what I am about to tell you Men must become converted They must implore pardon for the sins That they have committed and for those They will commit again in the future You have requested a sign by which all Men would understand my utterances given To humanity through you This miracle you have seen At this very moment It was the great miracle of the sun All have seen it believers and Unbelievers Peasants townsmen scholars and Journalists laymen and priests and now Proclaim in my name And what follows is the secret does that Father sound familiar There is no preamble Well i'm not sure preamble was the right Yeah there is no Introductory um Statement In the actual secret the text actual Text of the speaker itself so you don't Recognize what i just read Not as a part of that one sheet of paper No but it may well be that what follows Well then let me give you just a little Bit of what follows a great punishment Will come over the entire human race Not yet today nor tomorrow but in the Second half of the 20th century

What i have already made known At La Salette By the children melanian Maximum i believe it is I repeat to you humanity has not changed As god requested it too It has sinned And trampled under foot the gift it had Received There is no order anywhere satan rules Even in the highest positions And determines the direction of things He will succeed in warming his way even Unto the highest summits of the church He will succeed in seducing the minds of Great scholars who will invent armaments With which half of humanity can be Destroyed in seconds He will have the mighty Among the peoples under his sway and Will induce them to turn out mass Production of arms if humanity does not Amend itself i will be forced to let go The arm of my son If the mighty of the earth And of the church do not oppose this I myself will do it and i will ask god My father to allow to come over men The punishment of his justice It will then be that god will punish men More harshly Than he did with the flood

And the mighty and the powerful shall Perish along with the humble and weak And it goes on from there yeah the uh No it's not the text It's not specific enough the text is Very dry And specific And um But all that is there Is very accurate as regards the General Fatima interpretation of modern history But it's not the text of the third Secret that i know all right um east of The rockies you're on the air with Father malachi martin hi hi Where are you sir uh this is bob from Wilkes-barre pennsylvania hi bob hi uh Listen first of all i want to thank Father malachi martin for appearing in This on his show again well thank god Better for that bob Yeah i really don't know what the hell Yeah there are a lot of people i i know That are out there that do appreciate You even though there might be maybe a Lot that don't but i'm one of the ones That really do and i've been uploading i Listened to the show has been great Anyway what is your website first of all Because i want to maybe email you fight Hold on a moment later well listen Caller if you're used to going to my Website all you've got to do is go up to

The guest area and click on father Martin's name you'll go right over there Okay then all right well father martin i Have like a ton of questions i can ask You but i got to be pretty selective Here i think so okay um let's see all Right Did you ever maybe make known uh mention Uh make mention anywhere of a a warning That's supposed to be given to mankind That came out of garibando but yeah And says going to be but it's not a Warning bob no it's it's We have no word in english it's Advertisement In spanish it means they're putting on Notice Like the share sheriff putting up a Notice on your front door saying You haven't paid your rent for three Months if you don't pay it by the Following month you will be blah blah Blah blah blah blah That's sort of a uh It's a putting on Just putting on the note i don't know You know what i did have something very Similar to that last call that was 37 Years old that mentioned about that Feeling is that well could you maybe Give a little more emphasis or like you Know describe that more what it could be Well it's it's you see For one reason or another certain people

Have a greater perception of what their Angel tells them We don't know why We don't know why we do not know what But that is in that nature It's always comforting but it's always Um admonishing in a gentle sense of the Word yeah because it seems like i lost a Lot of the zest for things in the world And it's like i'm being pointed out of The world into another direction and I've had weird things happen to me back From 1990 on and uh have you got a Spiritual director pop No i know that by the way it's a very Rare animal nowadays but find a good Spiritual director they do exist you Know how about you At a certain point bob just finish it Off at a certain point You'll just go around in circles unless You have a spiritual guide yeah Okay can i just ask you one quick Question go ahead all right uh is it is It within the church's laws like is is It possible to have maybe one of your Relatives who died and who's maybe not a Saint in heaven come to you and tell you Something in the manner of a dream but a Very very oh yes oh yeah it's quite Feasible Quite feasibly Quite feasibly you must be very careful With your imagination of course you must

Be you know not to be deceived And then you need a spiritual guide for Judging those things But it is feasible oh yes quite peaceful All right The principle is this that your flesh And blood is never above all your own Bone flesh and blood Have a spiritual bondage that nobody Else has And in the grace of god and if they're With god They can Communicate All right west of the rockies you're on The air with father malachi martin good Morning art bell father martin it's an Honor to speak with both of you this is Michael from san jose hi michael hi Michael i have three questions for you Father martin And they stem from your book hostage to The devil i have winslet's house first Edition hardback looking at it but i'm Halfway through your other book first But i can't get to the other one until Yet Um there is a passage in your Introduction that says the church is the Only element in society with the Authority and the availing remedy to Counteract such manifest evil talking About possession but what is it about The church itself if it's just i was

Always raised with the thought that the Church is the collective some of the Congregation that the practices within It also now the people that make it up No it's not quite that it is it is the Assembled people who are in the state of Grace sanctifying grace in this life and Those who are in purgatory and those who Are in heaven already okay they as the Mystical body of christ because it's Christ who coagulates them all into a Mystical being And that is the church Now we have also got an external Organization which art and i have been Discussing tonight in its sorry Condition That's only the external organization The The the church itself is this mystical Body of believers On earth in purgatory and in heaven and They have Through their prelates through their Authentic prayers they have the power of Control of evil if they want to use it Now how is it manifested through those Priests bishops cardinals monsignors to Give You i should say you as an exorcist the Power to combat the people you must have Authority from them they must authorize You otherwise you haven't got the The the power and when you try to

Exercise You'll be you'll be caught but if they Do but i mean i've just sit here and Listen to your pen on them for two hours Which i believe the church does need Anonymous so to speak even when it comes Down to when i go to catholic church in The morning masses of watching the Fathers delegate the responsibility of Giving out the eucharist to other people To sick people when they're pawning that Off it makes me wonder You know just how serious are they Taking certain responsibilities well Michael you now you put your finger on a Very sore Spot the difficulty is first of all We're not sure at all that the nervous Order the new form of the mass is valid And even if we were valid there are Certain laws that the priests and Bishops are breaking now As regards the distribution of the Sacrament It's a very complex question and you Can't trust their judgment It's very hard to give you a hard and Fast rule for single instances But you've got to be very careful okay Well i promise my next two questions Would be a lot simpler Um In the second story Of your book hostage to the devil it was

The virgin in the girlfriend not Mistaken yes one of the priests whom you Finally entered the story into uh Suffered Irreparable damage as um a result of the Exorcism that's right have you ever i Mean i know you're 77 and you're still Alive but have you ever come that close To having something like that he got his His ailment because of a mistake he had Have you ever come across a situation Where you had Michael now making a mistake and yes I'll tell you something michael in General You never come back from an exorcism the Same man Yeah i read that but i you can also put Yourself in further jeopardy you do you Do you do you you endanger yourself but You have to rely on the grace of god to Save you Uh but you do you suffer irreparable Damage in one sense father he's asking Whether you ever have come close to that Kind of disastrous person yes i have you Have yeah And my last question i guess is in Reading hostage to the devil that Doesn't seem i like i said i've only Read it halfway through i'm i'm right Now into uncle ponto I'm wondering when we're gonna start Reading the malachi chronicles are we

Ever gonna get Your work a chronicle listing of some of Your cases where you handled them Um good question uh father good question I i See i i must tell you michael and art i Bore me I really do I'm bored with myself that's why i keep Going away from myself And i i i find it hard to believe that i Should write a a personal story I really do So you may not do it i mean i i have no Inclination at all art and michael to do It at all Uh as i say i'm a boar to me I really am And uh i don't like me in that sense i Like me in the sense that i want to go To heaven And be with christ and the angels Forever and all my family but i i i I don't think i'm interesting in that Sense Not for a written chronicle well we Think you are Very kind of you are for a poor old guy Like me first time caller line you're on The air with father malachi martin hi Good morning how are you okay sir where Are you i'm in hayward california okay Uh I was reading uh the book the decline

And fall of the roman church Yes um and one question i had in that Where You had thought that uh by the year 2000 Um And we quoted here that there will no Longer be a religious institution Recognizable as the roman catholic Church of today We're almost there right and uh the Question i had was What's the the rush what's the the real Hurry Uh to unite with the orthodox churches That the pope is seem so urgent Uh to connect with them before the year 2000 is there any connection well two Comments on that i didn't get your name By the way timothy timothy timothy two Questions and that's a very relevant Question you ask first of all Um That idea of ecumenism Is something i disagree totally with Right We properly speaking don't want to join With anybody we think everybody should Join us Number one Number two The rush to ecumenism Is tied to the concept that paul jo my Pope john paul ii and he is my pope has Because his ideal

And remember as well because you can Interpret for his words and his actions In his life his ideal is to form a Dynamic a new dynamic as he calls it Catholics joined with protestants and Joined with jews and joined by muslims And uh hindus And all believers creating a An irresistible Uh force Within the nations of the of the earth That's his ideal that's what he labors For that's what he talks about the year 2004 that's why he wants to go to mount Sinai and why he wants to go to ur of The chaldees where abraham came from and He wants to end up his celebrations in Jerusalem That's this pope's concept Okay and for me there's no rush at all It's a question of god's grace right Yeah i was just interested in that Because uh Uh I know that there's a long connection With the orthodox churches Uh where You know the history of the church Where you could see a significant Difference of the roman catholic church Today when you go back in history Even with the dealing with the eastern Churches it's very yeah well you timothy You know as well as i do that all greek

Orthodox and all russian orthodox Are heretics and cosmetics Well not that's not the pope claim but i Think it was in 1962 where the pope Lifted the anathema against the orthodox And proclaimed them Well actually i think it's this pope who Claimed them as the Other lung Of the you know the two lung theory have You ever heard of that i have timothy But that's very nice language right when You get down to theological fact With would necto the patriarch of moscow And the patriarch of constantinople are Both heretics And schismatics And unless they return To Union with rome They will not go to heaven well how how Can we say that really about You know the patriarchs when actually You look at the history Where's the the patriarch of the west The pope who is in heresy Well no pope was in heresy as pope Uh if you give me his name we'll discuss It but no no there's no pope who Has pope proclaimed heresy And there are 244 of them 64 of them Have you ever Saint vincent of laryn's

Yes well he had said that the way that We could tell what is the truth Is uh that which has been believed Everywhere Always And by all And at that time Uh no pope had ever claimed to be Prime over all the other bishops yes he Had i know he hadn't in fact I'm sorry well i have quotes here from Roman catholics themselves That state otherwise no no no no no the Pope was Going right back to Clement both clement who Knew peter And going up to gregory in the sixth Century and norm was there was always This claim and acknowledged By the orthodox greeks And the russians Until the until 500 years later But it's the old old quarrel Quality father um In view of the state of The church and the vatican and the Cardinals and bishops that we now know When the lord takes this pope what do You expect will occur With regard to succession the next Trouble Art much trouble The prime candidates at the present

Moment we all know them because for the Last year and a half certainly The most um Frequent word In people's minds And in courts in rome is conflict the Election of the next pope And the Prime candidates we now know that three Or four of them they do not look Very very promising as regards What is needed to pull this organization Together Uh you must Well what i'm pulling together To get something going which is really Evangelical Which is really Forceful in the field of morality And religious teaching And which has the power of god behind it Father by now a lot of people are going To want to win swept house and before we Leave this hour i would like you to give The address out again i will indeed they Can if they cannot find it in a Bookstore yeah they can write to the Following address Write to me Care of Post office box pob295 Lodi lodi Wisconsin Zip code five three five

Five Five one more time Pob post office box 295 Lodi lodi Wisconsin Zip code five three five five five and How much should they include when they Order Uh i think the price is something like 24 or 25 um I can't check that immediately Um i wish i could i should probably Somewhere in the area of 24.95 All right father martin standby we'll be Right back to you all right here we go Um just a couple of things i want to Quickly read one from a friend in Australia father yes uh who says i had a Jesuit priest tell me more of the third Secret of fatima years ago in perth Uh he said among other things the last Pope would be under control of satan Pope john fainted thinking it might be Him we were interrupted before i could Hear the rest Um Any comment on that Yes Uh It sounds as if They were Reading or Being told The

Text of the third secret Oh my It sounds like it But It's sufficiently vague to make one Hesitant yes sounds like it all right And then just this one as well this is From dan in Devonport iowa it says I was told by an old catholic priest While i was stationed in asia in the Late 70s that in the last days Nature Will attack everything we have and know And that all food will be gone starving Will be so widespread that families will Eat other members of their families my God just to stay alive this madness will Be so widespread there will be no place That will be safe and no place to hide Until all That peoples uh who do not believe in God are dead then life can start anew No that's not that's not Part of it it's not part of it but that First one Yes is And there's a certain element in the Second one Which is Near the truth Okay um And i'm sorry to be pushing on this i'm Just not happy

At all I wish to god you hadn't got the push Okay west of the rockies you're on the Air with father malachi martin good Morning hi good morning this is joseph From hawaii yes sir my name Is art i have a question father i'm a Little confused um When you say uh you have no authority to Um Reveal the secret yeah um wasn't the Secret uh revealed uh to the nun and Then on to a pope and then wasn't it was Supposed to be revealed to the public At first and how it was oppressed by the Church yes it was supposed to be Revealed to the public and in general Isn't that the authority from the higher End no no that doesn't give me our cars Yeah okay i'm just a little confused it Seems like um I'm not Clear on the story but what he's saying I think father is that if god's original Wish was for it to be revealed then yes And it was not Yes Then is not the authority present now as It was then Well exactly for it to be revealed His argument is very forceable arguments And many people Would agree with him and with all due Respect father if if you don't reveal

The secret and uh if the secret is held Wouldn't the members of the catholic Church be perpetuating the suppression Of the secret of the truth yes of course Yes of course they are but therefore it Should be told but i in the catholic Church we we worked through the Hierarchy the beginning with the pope And the bishops and i cannot I Take to myself the authority to overrule Them I think they should be overruled but i Haven't got the authorities to do that i Wish i had joseph i wish i had I haven't i haven't got even the Authority to authorize exorcisms Unless uh unless i have from a bishop In this case the bishop of rome Um All right i understand that answer is a Very very fixed thing Because i have no other guide on this Face of this earth Except the voice of the roman teaching The magisterium romanum as we call it All right father first time caller line You're on the air with father malachi Martin hi uh good morning father morning My name is john where where are you john I'm in miami shores miami all right and Uh i want to thank father for some of The books he's written particularly the Keys of this blood thank you john always

Been very interested in politics and World politics and he You filled in a lot of the questions That has always bothered me from Childhood And i encourage you to continue with Your writing shall do please god I I was going to ask about uh he may have Been a saint of By the same name that you have malachi Of ireland Yeah He was a different yeah he was a he was A bishop and and he referred to a Final pope a pope by peter of rome is There anything He has a list of popes the only thing About that list of popes is he doesn't Say He doesn't say that he has all the popes In it i see But he does refer to the two last popes And he gives the latin sort of names And Petrus romanus is the last pope And the one perceiving him is gloria our Levi The glory of the olive these are all Names and actually the names malaki Gives to a certain amount of popes Uh Saint malachy does it's uh they're very Interesting names and they always fit

Princess the present pope He described as um Labor solis And labor solas is the classical American uh latin expression for an Eclipse of the sun And in fact The day that John paul ii was born there was an Eclipse of the sun Amazing it's a very funny list of names And it's not complete that's the only Thing john now this talk of making mary Or corey dem checks yes A lot of people say we should Acknowledge that she is I thought there are difficulties in the Way Now is that something like i i once Heard from one of the sisters i went to Catholic schools and yes it's Uh saying the rosary might help uh Make uh god's path Become reality are there i know you You're reluctant to share what's In the uh that letter and i guess the Guy is cast when john the 23rd decided Not to uh Publish it at that time there's nothing About the rosary in the secret but is There any positive step a believing Person can do to Help Perhaps

Reduce the suffering of others or yes There is there is and there's a whole Literature on that john which you can You can read And it's published by various Organizations one is called the blue Army another is called um chihuahuas Escapes them from his own there's Several Books and pamphlets and Periodicals and magazines published That that explain how we can And There's lots of instruction on that the Blue army is that somebody would be able To like find in a christian bookstore Catholic bookstore yes you should it's Headed by a man called gruner nicholas Gruner father nicholas bruner And uh i appreciate the opportunity to Ask you these these questions but uh Thank god bill i uh Uh he was our creator The uh there's a movement i i didn't see Much of it in massachusetts but here in Florida there There's a church actually it's not a Catholic church it's a shrine and they Do the uh Old roman rite the roman mass John joseph for uh john for your Information i say the roman mass every Morning well now it's time i'll be Saying it it feels i don't know if it's

Because I They changed the match when i was in the Third grade but it feels more wholesome To me i i Is it all right to take that path as Opposed Between you and me and the holy spirit It's the only mass all right i i Appreciate your call um Father i Said i would ask this and so i am going To ask it i i have people of many Stripes and opinions and beliefs on this Program sure Um Dear art would you please ask father Martin his opinion of benjamin krem And this lord matreya supposedly alive And well in london does father martin Consider lord matreya to be the Antichrist no he's not Um do you have any comments beyond that Uh Creme And The mid-prayer Are fulfilling a certain function Pre-antichrist Pre-antichrist but they are not the Anti-question All right we'll leave it right there and One other question Today

Uh certain prophetic scholars Are very much interested in why Gorbachev And the present pope john paul Are in discussions or more clearly Sharing the russian language which they Can speak and few understand around them Why where are they in talks They're in talks because John paul's concept Of Gorbachev's function Is that In reality he is destined to exercise a Certain role In the Creation of The new world order And john paul who is very keen on Participating in the new world order i Had a feeling that might be exactly what You were going to say yep Um wild card line you're on the air with Father malachi martin good morning Uh good morning gentlemen this is Barbara and alsa Tulsa oklahoma yes sir yes ma'am um i Had a question for father malachi a Quick one about fatima and then i'd like To relate something that happened here In the house that was kind of Frightening and i wanted his opinion Sure Um on uh fatima father malachi can you

Tell us if our country the united states Is mentioned specifically in the secret No it's not mentioned specifically But something very relevant to the States is mentioned i see um i wanted to Call on your professional experience as An exorcist uh to get your opinion about What happened here i'll try to be fast i Know the airstream is precious uh it Concerns my mother she's 83 and good Health but she is demented I took her to the front room for her Afternoon nap this is a couple of months Ago but on the sofa i left i was halfway Down the hall when i heard a horrible Streak I ran back to the room and she was in Total body violent convulsions Yes father yes uh she it was so violent That i was afraid to try to put her Shoulders down on the sofa for fear i Might break one of her bones or even one Of mine yes This it was just horrible she was Shrieking the entire time i'd never Heard her shriek she's not a screamer Never has been even before she became Ill this went on for three or four Minutes when suddenly she collapsed Backwards and her head fell slightly to The left The color drained out of her face What's your question about all that okay What happened afterwards father i'm

Looking down into her eyes i didn't know What to do i'd never seen anyone die Suddenly A small white ridge formed along the Lower Edge The lower eyelid from the white tissue Of the eyeball It began it was in a horizontal plane From the nose to the ear this began to Move slowly up through the white tissue Through the iris of the eye And the eyes turned yellow The pupil disappeared there was just a Fuzzy outline around the eye I i thought this is what happens to Everyone when they die or i i didn't Know what to do did she did she die No she didn't i thought she was dead art She was still as a stone and all the Color left her face it turned this awful Yellowish gray all right well did okay i Can almost answer that um I would say that A medical diagnosis Is required long before you would get to The consideration of An exorcism Yes There are many older people in this Country now worldwide in fact uh we're Living longer and dementia occurs Dementia of various sorts Uh begins to occur in people and it's

Very easy to mistake that um for Something that would require an exorcism And you'd have to go an awful long way Before you would make that determination Exactly you're right ma'am he's right Okay very frightening thing Sure but um As we say It would be a good physical examination First of all with a competent doctor Have you done that No she's now gone yep yeah but you're Right i totally you you said what i Would have said That was my commentary And you can't do that kind of diagnosis On the phone Uh east of the rockies you're on there With father malachi martin hello hi good Morning martin morning where are you sir I'm calling from high school maryland High school maryland you're going to Have to yell out so i can barely hear You right hey saint doran from high School maryland Um i have one question about angels Now i've been spared By seconds twice in my life And I know you believe in angels but i have Never I have no perception of anyone looking After me But my life has been spared

Any comment um uh he's asking father About guardian angels yes Yeah i heard him what i got was that he Has no perception that anybody is taking Care of him right well that's that's the Common perception all right but he Should cultivate his angel How do you cultivate him you pray to him And ask his intercession and you Do something in his honor you say a Prayer in his honor or you visit a Church in his honor Cultivate him And he will talk that's remarkable Remarkable advice i I had a guest on sunday brad steiger is His name he's a well-known author yes And he believes firmly in guardian Angels but the one caution that he gave Out is never pray to your guardian angel I know Well There are those of us who pray Continually to our angels Uh i don't know why rod really forbids That Um It's against all the practice and the Catholic church You don't pray for them as god you Present as an angel Especially confined To take care of you Uh but i'd love to hear rod's reason for

That i really would actually brad Bradsteiner people confuse him with rob Science brad steiger It really does and here in the middle of The night all right well i have people Lined up by the gazillion to talk to you First time caller line you're on the air With father malachi martin good morning Good morning uh all right good morning Father malachi good morning and god Bless you uh for giving all your time on Art show and i admire your stamina and Your patience My query is uh About a year and a half ago i read an Interesting article in a publications That that's dedicated to psychic Phenomena uh Ufos uh Hauntings exorcisms etc Uh and this uh In this magazine there was a story about The death of the previous pope that he Was discussing certain problems of the Vatican with the Secretary of state who is also a Cardinal i believe Uh And that night He had these papers that these this Edict that he was going to read before That uh Oh the heads of the church you know the Popes and the bishops and the cardinals

And he had discovered uh the pope A scandal in the vatican bank uh money Laundering involving cardinals and two Mafia bankers Also the pope wanted to lower the ban on Contraception And because of this he was poisoned by The cardinals now have you read this Story or heard about it yes i have i Have The one i'm recollecting with all those Details is a book by a man called david Yalap And Is that the one you're talking about uh Yes yes i believe that is and actually This was all predicted by nostradamus Yes a lot of it was predicted but Nostradamus can be read more than one Way you know but to get back to the Actual uh jalap theory The um The There are a lot of things in david yalap That are unsubstantiated Like he says that he spent i think 200 Hours talking to The secretary of that pope who died After 34 days as pope But i know that that secretary very well He never saw jalap's face or heard his Voice But As regards the

We didn't need anything to tell us that There were vatican scandals about money As as of 19 What 1974 75 There's been a lot of trouble with with Money Uh That Now the the death of that pope pope john Paul one It's very suspicious Yeah it also said that uh Uh When the the housekeeper came uh In the morning and discovered the pope Was dead and he was still clutching Those papers that he was trying to read Before the uh The hierarchy of the church and uh there Was a bible a medicine bottle on the Table which was poison and that's how he Was he was uh killed to poison and they Said when uh he was injected with Embalming fluid because they didn't want To have an autopsy that would reveal The poison in his bloodstream I've heard all these stories when i saw Father yeah yeah they they they Some of them are accurate some of them Are inaccurate The the the Certainty is that there are some Mysterious circumstances in the death That pope he didn't die naturally nobody

Believes he did The details or left the imagination of People like david yalap And I i i I Have nothing to share on that at all Except say that john paul One was probably done in Who did it well if you would ask my Opinion but it takes a long time to Explain we haven't got that time it's A lot of men within and outside the Vatican who could not put up with the Reforms that he was going to inaugurate And You and i asked you this earlier you Don't really rule out that kind of Violence in the coming days do you no i Do not No i do not well cardline you're on the Air with father malachi martin where are You calling from please Hello hello yes that's you all right um I'm calling from red bluff california Okay and i Heard the father um refer a previous Caller to literature by the blue army Yeah i was wondering if he is aware that The blue army was on a lecture circuit In the mid 70s revealing the third Secret of fatima And if he is aware of that if that is Accurate

Yes Father gruner and his company his Organization never revealed the actual Text The actual text i attended a lecture in The mid 70s and i remember I don't remember at all unfortunately i Thought most of it was so frightening i Just actually Couldn't um comprehend it the only two Things i remember That he said it referred to a lot of Civil unrest And that children would be disobedient To their parents and um they would be Tattooing their bodies and piercing Their bodies and Let's see um Children would be killing children yes And those are the only two things that i Seem to recall You know it's not the It's not the actual content of the Letter We have children killing children Unfortunately yes but no that's not That's not the That's not the sensational part of the Of the third secret as far as i remember Ma'am all right um east for the rockies Uh good morning you're on the air with Father molokai martin where are you Please Yes i'm from kansas city yes sir

Yes uh father martin it's a great Pleasure to hear you you know Thank you very much for saying that And uh my question maybe i have a Comment afterwards Is that Can You see the pope at some time or another At some at one point Giving up the secret of uh The rope no No No Okay Uh my comment is Art Is that uh If what i've been hearing on the rest of Your programs yes with with the major And then scanlan and the rest of it Yes if that's leading up to what uh The uh third to the third secret yes And the third secret what you read According to uh Father martin yes it's sort of a mild Version of the yes what it says yes I don't really don't think i want to Hear what the third secret is Very understandable sir I understand it has not added to the sum Of my happiness to have read it Um would you say that in a lot of ways Father that um The world is better off

Not knowing i mean that that almost has To be What the popes have decided that the World is better off not knowing Yes That's what the popes have decided uh Against that stands the order which Apparently The queen of heaven as catholic porter Gave to The pope through the children Publish it Ah Yes that's the difficulty that's the Only difficulty i have And it's a it's a big one um West of the rockies you're on the air With father malachi martin hi Hi Hi where are you Um i'm lennor in san diego san diego Okay And um my question father martin Is Um Our lady of medjegoria and one of her Yes I'm saying to the children Was that if We Return to god yes and um Change our lives to respect that return To god and pray enough yeah perhaps god Would not send the comment

And i'm wondering if the comment has Anything to do with the third secret No ma'am The comment is not mentioned And the The difficulties or as they call them The chastisements the punishments Mentioned in the third secret Uh Are not those caused by a comet Impacting on the earth Do you know of anything else The only time i've ever heard anything About a comment was in that one Statement she said to the children Several years ago yeah the i i have a Difficulty about medjugorje I'm Since it has not been sanctioned by the Church by church authority I i i Can't rely upon it i can't believe he Hasn't been denied by the church either And and it hasn't Quite had major Spiritual Joyful Deeply gratitudinal i know And millions have also Millions have also the unfortunate thing Is that The church has not approved of it yet And i'm afraid to trust myself you know Oh i understand but that my experience

Is is Very deeply involved though okay Absolutely All right Thank you very much and take care uh First time caller line you're on the air With father malachi martin hello hello This is wayne somewhere in kentucky Trucking across america in a truck in Kentucky somewhere okay Yeah a question for father uh yeah Isn't it written in the good book that Uh evil has to be requested to come into Your home Yes it is And regards to Benjamin grimm of last week here this Malevolent spirit of his and It's waiting for everybody to request it To come into their home through one of These uh nbc abc or something like that Wouldn't you consider that uh evil Requesting to come into everybody's home By turning on the channel Well i i i i i didn't hear this Particular broadcast so i i'm not i'm Not able to say well this is with regard To benjamin grimm and uh Lord matreya yeah what did benjamin cram Say well he said that When the world is ready or requests yes That this matreya will make himself Known Through some large broadcast media to

The world Well if you said that let's wait and see So that's all that's all we can do um Wow card line you're on the air with Father malachi martin hello good morning Father malachi good morning You don't know what that means to me hey Um Um Have you ever One question i'd like to find out if i I've heard a story about a pope from the Mid 9th century a pope john yeah who Like 856 876 something like that which Was discovered to to be a woman no no That's a mistake That's a famous mistake If art gives me Two minutes i'll explain how the mistake Arose go right ahead the popes at that Time used as their throne Tears made of a stone called porphyry Porphyry is a very precious stone they Had the romans had a series of porphyry Chairs and thrones made And they all had a hole in the middle And He used to use one of these thrones And they said that It was because he was very effeminate His name was john I forget which john john the first to John the third or something like that And just forget momentarily

But uh He wasn't a woman no there was number of Pope joan Um Much at all as A lot of People would like to happen there was a Protestant historian in the 19th century Called harnack And hanak had a healthy dislike of the Roman catholic church And he wrote the definitive book about Pope john Demolishing the myth And if anybody would have liked to Create Or foment the story it would have been a Heartache But he came to the conclusion that it Was a total fabrication Wow All right um honestly Sorry there were loot stories told about Him Uh the purpose of the whole being to Masturbate et cetera i wasn't going to Shock your audience with all that Details Yeah all right uh wild card line you're On here with father malachi martin good Morning oh let me turn my radio down yes Father yes yeah i was wondering if i Read revelation 12. would i be Fairly

More enlightened as to the aspect of the Third secret Would that help Well Sister lucia who wrote down the third Secret Says that the whole of The secret is contained in chapters i Think it's 12-17 of the book of Revelation okay that makes it's that's Starting to make absolute sense have you Seen have you seen have you seen the Painting of her last vision Is it a woman Clothed with the uh with the 12 stars That the sign is no no no no no no the Crucifixion with our lady no i am okay Try and get a hold of that picture it's Her last vision in 1929 I will do that's great news it can Actually another question because Sometimes you Uh You say this pope is More attuned with the new world order But in other places and i may have been Misreading this yeah you say that he's Opposed to it at the same time am i Misreading no he's opposed to certain Things him or certainty yes yeah Certainly but he He his attitude is we can't stop the new World order right and it's here anyway So he's trying to align the church with

He's trying to make do with it Right hey great and thank you about the Revelations uh i'll be checking into That i had a funny feeling about that I want to thank you um a good lead he's For the rockies you're on there with Father malachi martin and not a lot of Time hello Hello hi turn your radio off please just A minute okay Uh everybody's yes Hello hi Father mark hi martin yes um i wanted It's nice to meet you i listen every Time you're on i learned something from You every time i hear you Um i wanted to know this vision you Talked about in garibaldi Um where can i find uh written Literature about it Um Is it sanctioned by the interior write Me a short note with your name and Address and i'll send you back the Relevant details okay uh rises at 217 East 66th street new york new york one Zero zero two one and why shouldn't you Hear me hero One two one and mention your name and Your request i'll send you back to jesus Promise you Oh yeah by the way my name is bonnie and I'm calling from philadelphia oh god Bless you bonnie yeah um another thing

That bothers me and it bothered me all Along about this uh third secret Um Is the chad still alive the one who Became a nun yes she is she's 89 she Lives in uh coimbra my god wow My god has she ever said how she feels About the church not Publishing the girls she keeps very Quiet for the simple reason that she's Been muzzled by the vatican Well the thing that bothers me about This is If the church Is going against what god has told them He wants them to do yeah in other words Your people are out here and they see This how do they expect us to keep Following them in absolutely faith honey What i want to say to you is it's not The church it's church men They are being unfaithful to their Vocation Yeah but it seems like it's been so many Ah you're telling us whoever gus was i Know that that's her difficulty that's What uh in the previous spin the last Three or four hours art and i were Discussing and i summarized it all by Saying we are in apostasy To a large degree And and the last thing i wanted to ask You is there anything that we can do as Individuals

Other than trying to avert What is coming In that third secret we can't avert it Now It it it it is coming When is something else but it is coming For sure We can mitigate it We can mitigate it slightly if you know What i mean We can't avert it Is the only way you can do is pray Pray go to communion say a rosary Cultivate the saints stay in the state Of grace Do good visit sick Visit those in prison two corporal works Of mercy In other words bonnie we know what to do Exactly if we want to do it right yeah Yeah but it's not going to be an easy Time No no it doesn't seem like we're in very Easy times now anyway Um father is there any circumstance Under which you can imagine That You would Feel free to reveal the secret yes Yes If there was a total collapse at the Center And you anticipate that don't you I anticipate as a possibility art

I can't You know i I can't predict but i anticipated as a Possibility certainly yes I do Martin as always it has been tremendous

Uncategorized