Art Bell Interviews Malachi Martin 4 of 7

All right uh here he is father malachi Martin father Good morning or good evening depending On your Time that’s right time zone we’re all Over the place You sound very good you sound in good Shape out i don’t know how you managed To remain always so chipper Uh well it’s simple i i think it’s just Like you father we’re both doing what we Enjoy Yes i suppose that is the secret i Remember the last man to say that in Public was Jimmy stewart he said he was paid to do What he loved to do So this is the case of the same thing i Suppose Tell me this uh on your mind you had Something about asking me about my My background and training and that sort Of business that’s right there have been Uh a lot of inquiries Apparently um because you’re a very Public person about your background and Your training and Um how you came to the priesthood and What your current status is so Instead of mine you know instead of my Reading a bio why don’t you just go Ahead and tell us Yes i don’t want to bore people off i Think you could always ask me a question

If i’m Obscure on any point and the The uh and it’s quite short and brief in Its own way except i’ll Try and fill in the details where it’s Necessary Uh to give a better picture d i was born In ireland of course in kerry In ireland uh but way back in 1921. Now father i’m going to ask you to get a Little bit away from the phone if you Would Okay what about this much better okay That Is a question of locating that that Speaker Um and i joined Jesuits the jesuit order the order of The jesuits i joined In 1939 just as war was being declared In fact i did it three days after we Heard prime minister chamberlain of England declare war on germany And germany had attacked poland and I remained in ireland for the duration Of the war Because we couldn’t get out it was Dangerous to travel And during that time i got a university Degree In semitic languages and Oriental art and archaeology and history And after the war i taught i Went to philosophy for three years i did

The jesus rigorous training And we went to philosophy for three Years and got a degree from that Then they had me teach little boys French and greek for a couple of years Every jesuit had to undergo that Teaching experience Because if you can teach greek and latin To little boys who just want to get out Of class You have learned to teach after that They sent me to belgium To a place called louvain where I studied theology for four years And where i was ordained the priest a Member of the jesuit order And i spent another three years getting A doctorate In semitic languages oriental art and Archaeology and history And i did a special work published in Two volumes On the dead sea scrolls and i spent a Lot of time In the middle east and Studying the actual scrolls themselves And Uh became an expert in paleography that Is ancient handwriting Um it all sounds very boring but it was Very exciting No it’s really not boring at all it was Very very exciting And then they brought me back to rome to

A place called the biblical Institute that’s the central part of the Vatican which trains Uh professors of bible and i became a Professor And with tenure of Hebrew and paleography and new testament And old testament and of one or two Other Languages like aramaic which is used in The bible And with the language to which jesus Spoke um But i arrived just down there in 1957 58 and the old pope Patchelli passed the 12th um da had died And his successor was john the 23rd And his great collaborator was a jesuit Called father bear Augustine bear a german jesus who lived In rome had been wrong for years And he took a shine to me and his room Was just beside mine in the jesuit house And at that time john the 23rd was Very keen on establishing a new Relationship with the jewish community So he brought me over to john the 23rd Who was very keen to have some young man And i was in my 30s Some young man who was trained in talmud Which i was And in in bible and in the biblical Languages Because john was setting up a huge

Network of relationships with jewish Organizations in europe and in america And then because he was going to hold a Thing called the second vatican council Which met finally in 1962 and lasted Until 1965 last Three years john died in the middle of It in 1963 But his successor paul vi kept it up and I was functioning all that time But however i had gone to my superiors In 1959 1960 and said look i’m not satisfied the Way things Are going and they said why well i said Because i don’t I don’t i don’t agree with some of the Policy decisions being made And i don’t agree the way these Decisions are being implemented All right may i may i if i can stop you There and ask you Uh a few specifics what did you disagree With I disagreed with changes modernizations Of uh the liturgy and i disagreed also With The the general trend in rome At that institute was to diminish The age-old tradition about the nature Of Scripture as being the word of god The dominant school of thought was a Germanic school

Which held that much of the bible could Be explained As a form of literature as a form of Popular mismaking Somebody’s story and That could of course if it were pushed Could affect the central beliefs that i Had as a catholic Of course namely the divinity of jesus The effect of the resurrection from the Dead And hell heaven and purgatory and Everything finally Uh because if you begin to throw doubt On the gospel stories the historicity Of the gospel stories you’re in trouble And indeed Today many roman theologians Will not state categorically that the Resurrection of jesus is a historical Fact they say yes it took place but uh They won’t call it a historical fact It’s a whole It’s a it’s what’s called the higher School of the school of higher criticism So i couldn’t agree with all that and Then um There were other disciplinary matters Too i thought that the What had made the jesuit order so Successful Was its inner discipline and that was Being loosened But everything was being loosened in

Those days uh Art there was a spirit sweeping through The roman catholic church As regards the old rules of the old Discipline That resembled a tornado at its height So anyway but so we we they decided that All right if you want to go you can go Now but I was a jesuit with a with Uh four vows there was poverty And celibacy or chastity as you call it And obedience and then a fourth of our Obedience to the pope There’s a special core of jesuits who Have that fourth power of obedience It really means the pope can call you in Any morning and say please Depart for tahiti and stay there and do Such and such reception such and you Can’t ask for your ticket Or for your support you just do what the Pope says let’s see if i’ve got it right Poverty Chastity obedience obedience and a Special vow to the pope Of obedience a special special vow of Devotion um So i went to paul the sixth who was the Pope then when i decided This is 1964. and um He said all right if you have to leave You have to leave i can dispense you From your vows

Which ones do you want to be dispensed From so i said well i’ve got to earn my Living holy father And for that i’ll need to Not have a vow property because my vow Of poverty means i can’t earn any money Or keep any money And he said all right and said that i i Have to abuse my vow of obedience Because i don’t want to obey my Superiors any longer And he said all right i said i want to Keep my valve celibacy because i have The syllabus and i want to remain Celibate Um the vow of obedience to you will be Immediately Automatically dissolved that’s canon law If i leave the jesuit order And he said to me well do you want to do You want me to find you a bishop at the Present moment there are Or almost two thousand bishops in rome At the council I’m sure several of them would like to Have you and they’ll die so i said no i Don’t I don’t want to be under a bishop so he Said well they won’t like that He’s very funny really he had a sense of Humor All his own we used to call him Because he looked like an owl with his Face

And he said well they won’t like that And you’re not going to have a bishop Where are you going to get your Authority from i said you will have to Give it to me holy father or your Successors By some special arrangement but i i want To be a priest I want to be celibate i want to write And I want to have very active in in tv and Radio And lecturing and talking and confessing And there’s a storm coming over the Church anyway which you yourself are Always talking about these days and the Apollo 6 was Always talking about the storm let loose Like a tornado Yes and he finally ended up by saying as You know in public A couple of years later the smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary of the Church We are now invaded anyway so We talked about that and he said all Right uh But he said then what you what you are Asking for is this there’s a form which You know of called layer sization And he said many people make the mistake Of thinking That a priest like you who undergoes Leocization

Becomes a layman and he said as you know That’s False you never never become a layman Once you’re a priest you’re a priest Forever But leocization merely concerns who has Authority over you and you want me to Arrange it So that no bishop and no religious Superior has control over you And he said we’ll have to make some Special arrangements about that Because he said somebody must have some Check on you So he made those special arrangements And there’s always somebody in rome to Whom i refer My life to and discuss my money with They don’t ask for money but they must Know what i do with it And they can always check on what i State in public if they don’t Think it is doctrinally safe So he said you won’t be you see art rome Is run by ministries They’re not called ministries in the Vatican they’re called congregations And there’s a ministry or congregation For the bishops And called the congregation for bishops And there’s a ministry or congregation For Clergy and that’s for clergy like Priests

And so on and so forth so uh You are still a priest oh yes uh you’re You’re simply a priest now who is Allowed to write books and uh derive Income from those books that’s right but I’m not I’m not under any of the congregations Directly Because i i don’t belong to a bishop and I don’t belong to a diocese So you’re a renegade priest no no no no No no No no no in fact a lot of people would Like it if i were because Uh writing for all that length of time And Talking to so many people over so much So from so much radio They would like it if i swung away Because i’m really known to be Fuddy daddy conservative and you know me As that artist Well that i guess i was uh i was Conferring an honor Uh you i i fully realize uh you uh Uh you’re a very conservative a priest And in that sense Uh in light of today’s church you are Sort of a renegade That’s right that’s why in that sense Yes the the the The uh sometimes puzzles catholics Because they used to preach or either Members of religious orders

Or who are uh under under a bishop in The diocese And i’m not either of those things and No but no congregation in rome would Claim authority over me But i’m not alone in this matter now There are well over a thousand priests Throughout the church in the same status As i occupy But it’s it’s very hard to explain to People because once they hear that You’ve been layer sized to say Oh well you’re a layman though but You’re not actually We’re not i’m not so in every sense of The word uh You are still officially a priest oh yes Yes there’s no doubt about that whatever The um the it allows me a certain great Latitude But it also puts restrictions on me Because i can’t back every political Cause i’d like to back Because there are limitations on me for That i’m not supposed to I don’t think priests should be Politicking him That makes me want to ask you about your Political views Oh yeah i have views of course i’ll be a Dumbbell if i haven’t got our Views but to fling one’s weight into a Political fight Which i sometimes would love to do i

Restrain myself because i think Between you and me i think that the one Thing jesus dislikes Is politicking clergy because he had a Lot of trouble with it in his day So i think that well i have to frankly Wonder about the entire Process of politics in other words uh to Attain high Office uh in this land today father it Seems as though you must be An accomplished prevaricator it seems to Me that you cannot do it with clean Hands I may be too condemned three in that Sense although i’m not condemned we are Here confessions all day And forgive sins as a catholic priest as A human being But it would seem that you’ve got to Pre-barricade yes You have to speak out of two sides of Your mouth you have to promise knowing You will not fulfill your promises And you have to pretend you side with an Issue because it’s good for you For a re-election is that is that a sin Or or uh would you say that even a good Man trying to enter the political world To do good things Yes uh would have to do what he has to Do to get where he wants to go to do the Good things he wants to do It’s just complicated but i think it’s

Quite clear what you’re saying well I suppose that there are limits you know There are certain exaggerations that are Now allowed Uh which uh are understood to be Exaggerations In the in on Father uh hold on just a moment we’re at The bottom of the hour and we’ll be Right back Back now to father malachi martin in Manhattan father I ask there’s a point in connection with What we were just talking about In the previous hour and it’s this that Uh you call me father Yes sir and the priests are normally Called father It has become the habit that if uh You’re not called father officially Since i have three doctors i chose to be Called dr martin Or father martin many people have called Me as that and there’s no difficulty With that Except for instance in the archdiocese Where i live in new york The archdiocese does not want any priest That’s not part of the diocese and i’m Not part of the diocese And not to wear clericals little girls Yeah and the black suit yes or not to be Called father Officially but i just want to note that

A lot of catholics They meet you for the first time when They find out you’re a priest but you’re You’re Wearing a shirt and tie well they find That shocking Is it okay to call you father oh yes Good that’s what i am and that’s where i Profess to be Good i’m just noting that small point as A consequence of my The status i thought again but Politicking clergy yes About politics itself uh it’s a very Very trying affair for the soul art i Think Because you’ve got to make so many Compromises Well yes um and i You know i don’t want to launch into a Big political discussion but i’ll say This about politics Uh there was a day when i discussed it Frequently Uh or even most of the time on the radio And in the last years father Um it seems like what they argue about And discuss In washington is more and more Irrelevant To our lives me too it seems so To me too it seems so and therefore i’m Not very interested Unless you wanted to discuss some

Political uh Problem case situation not me Not me either i really i don’t find it Interesting I find the majority of my my fellow Citizens ordinary men And women are not really exercised about It either They have other problems and other Considerations And that there’s something new happening Anyway out There as we say with the demographers There’s something new happening to men And women Uh there’s a there’s a new situation in The minds That i don’t think the politicians yet Have tumbled to They don’t know what’s going on um well I would think i would join them with That i’m not sure i know either i just Know We are at the edge of momentous change Yes we are we are there’s a there is a Change taking place And nobody can formulate it quite Accurately yet And i suppose until it becomes a de Facto Situation uh encased in laws And in practices and in the Constitutional amendments We won’t know what it is but there is a

Change taking place And i can characterize it in a certain Way but it won’t be a complete Characterization It’s very hard to pin it down but there Is a change When i interviewed you father um oh Gee it goes back uh at least yeah um A year maybe a half a year at least you Made a statement that stuck in Everybody’s mind you said This spring watch the skies that’s right Now There was a most remarkable event Over um over um uh Phoenix arizona uh most remarkable Um something gigantic uh hovered over That city Uh to the point where uh francis barwood One of the council Women in phoenix um called for an Investigation A gigantic hubbub there have been things Seen All throughout this spring in our skies That we normally Do not see uh i wouldn’t characterize Them As uh alien spaceships or devils Or uh weather inversions or flares or Anything else Uh something is going on but there were There There were these extraordinary uh

Phenomena huh Yes well i’m very glad you’ve told me That because nobody else did Uh nobody brought it to my attention What i used to say And it still holds retroactively That if between the end of winter 97 and the end of spring 97 There were such were such signs in the Skies Then that heralded Something very very awesome And something awesome and therefore Fearful In within within say six or nine months Of that time certainly before Winter of 1998 is there over And probably before this calendar year 97 Is over and i still say it ah Father you said you worked extensively On the dead sea scrolls Um How much of the information in the dead Sea scrolls Uh is now not public uh And and will it ever be and what do the Dead sea scrolls Reveal well the answer to the first Question art Is very simple and it is a a needed Statement there was for quite a while A constant rumor being repeated Especially in the popular press

That somehow or other either roman Catholic priests Or jewish rabbis or jewish scholars or Some group anyway Had found certain scrolls certain Writings From wadi gumraan that’s the place in Jordan now Where the original writers of the dead City schools lived At a place called ayan freshka and That they had these if they revealed These documents that they would upset Every traditional view of christianity And judaism Now we have examined every inch The truth is we have examined every inch Of every dead sea scroll every skull Produced in the scrollery produced by The scribes Transcribing them by hand there is Nothing Extraordinary being kept from the public What is being kept to the public is the Publication of all the documents because It takes a terrific amount of time To decipher them and to print them and Publish them and translate them But nothing has been hidden by cabal Of scholars christian or jewish And it’s a very it gives a very false Impression that’s the first thing to say That It is all accessible it now is all

Accessible And as time goes on it will be more and More studied and uh Illuminated by scholarship all right There are there There are large unpublished portions Throughout the dead season There certainly are and then sometimes It’s not so much they’re large and Published But significantly the some things are Small little scraps for instance Only in recent years art have we found Out That one scrap that said i suppose it’s About it’s about the size of the palm of My hand which is certainly from the Scroller And which certainly dates from about Or about 10 years after jesus died and Presumably jesus died By crucifixion in the year 33 But this graph coming from the scrollery In wadi gumran The dead sea scrolls place the monastery As we call it Has on its back a quotation from the Gospel of saint mark And that is revolutionary because that Shows that The gospel of sin mark was circulating At that time That would be about the year 45 or the Earth 50 a.d

And that is revolutionary that me a Small little fragment and so on there Are other surprises to come Now there’s one thing which we must keep In mind though is this The soil in palestine the soil in that Part of the country Above the world i should say that now It’s mainly israel Is a dry soil which preserves things Yes and i am certain I i will probably be playing a harp i’m Very hopeful about that part of my life But i will be dead because i’m 76 but i Think that in time That land is going to yield ancient Manuscripts They will be found by archaeologists and Published And they will help revolutionize our Entire concept of the bible for instance Art Do you know we have no pre-exilic copy Of the bible what i mean by that Well as you know the the jewish Population of palestine Was led into exile in the year 594 by King Nabokodamaza that was the exile To babylonia we have no copy of the Bible Dating from before that time no Pre-exilic Copy i am certain there are pre-exhibit

Copies So it’s like the missing link that’s Right and it’s a fighting the further we Get away from those events Way back two thousand years ago two Thousand five hundred years ago Uh three thousand years ago the more we Find out about it It’s the inversion of history so that is Coming Now then about the significance of the Scrolls themselves they confirm Everything we know about judaism Uh there’s nothing in them which is Specifically christian at all At all at all at all there’s nothing Specifically christian And you know jesus when he was taken Prisoner one night The night before he died he was being Interrogated And the the one of his interrogators Said to him What have you been teaching in the Streets well i watched your doctrine And he came back very strongly jesus Never turned the other cheek by the way Ever And at that same interview by the way Somebody struck him across her face Somebody struck him he didn’t turn the Other cheek he turned on the man and Said why did you hit me If i’ve done something wrong say so if i

Didn’t What’s with you to hit me but anyway he Uh jesus answered the accusation that he Was teaching doctrine Said i’m sorry i have never taught And then he used an expression in Aramaic And in greek we have it in greek which Is normally translated as in secret A thought would be the aramaic but basod Is the term used in the dead sea scrolls The official documents of the Of the group of people who were there to Indicate their special meetings There are professional gatherings so What he was telling the The his interrogator was look There are those fellas out there by wadi Gumram and they’re revolutionaries They’re essenes and they’re zealots and Uh There are your enemies because they’re Revolutionaries but i don’t belong to Them I don’t teach in their gatherings i Don’t frequent them So there are traces that jesus knew About it Like that in the new testament know how To either But there’s no in the dead sea scrolls Themselves there’s nothing specifically Christian at all there’s a lot that can Be learned

About the the times in which jesus lived And what people believed and i could Spend the next Three hours going through the new Testament pointing out where There’s an incidence between dead sea Scrolls and the gospels But that’s not really relevant for the Moment all right Um i want to ask you about uh about Something Very recent on the horizon uh father Um there have been a number of people Uh there’s a new book out by mr drosnan Called the bible codes And uh while i have not interviewed mr Drazen now i have interviewed a man Called stan Tennant yes and he has for 30 years been Working on the ancient aramic yes And claims to have this is very Interesting to have deciphered Uh yes indeed a code in the bible in Ancient aramic Aramaic i guess thank you and uh And he claims uh most fascinating Discovery That these codes translate into Geometric Patterns that uh if viewed Uh actually allow for example in genesis One to Enter a state of experiencing Not just what is written in uh genesis

But What actually occurred it’s it’s the Most intriguing uh I must read that book out i haven’t read It yet uh so that uh And and then he claims of course that uh Some people have not come out of the Experience As whole people anymore and that uh only Those who are the most pure Are able to have this experience anybody Can have it but not anybody can come out Of it A totally sane anyways i didn’t know That I must look at that book and i was Wondering i i guess have you heard about The public i’ve heard about it all right Bible codes i’ve heard about it um And indeed there has always been a Tendency Not more than more than a tendency That’s always been the habit Especially amongst jewish scholars uh Tell me experts to Read the Bare words of the bible which is mainly Hebrew but some aramaic But mainly ancient hebrew to read them In such a way that they get a double Meaning out of it and a more profound Meaning than The simple meaning we take from the from The historical parts of the bible

Uh there’s no doubt about that have you Heard about An art called demetria gemetria No what is that gemetria is actually It’s a it’s a word used in the talmud a Jewish childhood But it comes from the greek word Geometry but It’s gemetria is the Use of the letters of words say in The first line of genesis is boreshit In the beginning god created heaven and Earth yes but they take each letter And they give it a value a numerical Value yes And they translate those numerical Values into other words More profound than the their statement In the beginning god created heaven and Earth It’s called gemetria and um The sometimes the the results are Astounding They really are astonishing and do you Consider it then possible father I consider this as possibility If you know something did happen You find confirmation of us in gemetria But it’s merely a confirmation New revelations about god new Revelations about the Evolution of mankind new revelations About god’s nature About our destiny and about holiness and

About the entire question of religious Belief No i don’t consider it reliable you must Have it beforehand But chemetria does provide a Confirmation There are books published on this and You have to know math very well and Nowadays you must be able to use a Calculator Because you’ve got to run off and you Calculated the value of a word Um well the the man who published uh the Work called the bible codes drosman Uh claims that uh it is predictive that It is Prophecy um i find that explanation far Less elegant Uh than mr tenon’s which is that these Geometric patterns produced By the bible codes actually allow one to Experience Uh what is generally written in in in The king james Version for example yes uh and that’s Very elegant Uh explanation indeed and if true Um i i can’t say It’s something i could try because i’m Not nearly Uh pure enough to try it but normally Nor I i do not feel that either then it goes Against

I must say i couldn’t do it from the Point of view of doctrine Because i don’t believe that that’s the Way i’m supposed to find God i’m supposed to find my belief Um i have a far more What i would call an objective norm That’s not to attack anybody as Subjective But the difficulty is this art that if I’m allowed set up rules Of interpretation which i choose Arbitrarily arbitrarily because i’m Just one single person and with that i Find out That i can predict such and such and Such and such Uh first of all people must wait to see Are those predictions fulfilled Yes otherwise it’s a fake And while i’m waiting i still am hanging On the subjective interpretation of one Single individual And that i find very shaky Especially if i’m seeking guidance for Concrete decisions Should i marry this woman should i have Children Should i invest in this business should I believe this It’s it’s a shaky basis for concrete Decisions i have to make Is it honest of me to to conclude such And such a deal

You know and i need guidance i’m a moral Being And i can be very immoral if i haven’t Got guidance indeed All right father uh hold on well we’ll Be right back to you And father yeah uh this august again i’m Going to remind you to stay a little bit Away from your phone if you would Is that better oh infinitely yes sir I’ll do that Religiously i hope religiously Uh father this october i’m going on a Trip which is going to take me Uh to rome i’ve never been to rome I’ve never been to the vatican and i’m Going to go to the vatican What should i see Oh that provokes an awful lot of Thoughts in my mind art Um and uh entrenu between you and me Let me provide you with one or two names Uh To go and see when you do go there oh And if you’re to give me your dates but I will talk with you separately about All that All right all right but uh apart from That completely Um there is so much to be Seen there that my one main advice to You is to make a choice beforehand Because you can’t stay there forever um As a matter of fact i’ll only be in rome

For two days well then in two days Certain things you can see and are worth Seeing And that repay the the time Put into it you can see Saint peter’s and you can see the Vatican museums Um the main museums in one day In less than one day in one good outing Organized By some agency and there are many good Ones in rome And there are many good ones here They’re organized in rome for you Now if i were to use your name that Would not get me into the secret Archives would it Uh well if you use it with a certain men Whose names i’ll give you yes Oh my god i’ll get you a visit there It’s a fantastic thing do you know there Are seven Miles beneath the surface of rome Seven secret archives that you enter This thing And when you enter it the light goes on And as you move through it down along The passageways The light behind you goes off and the Light ahead of you goes on It’s a fantastic thing this is a Fantastic affair What i would give to be able to see that So you can

You can see it all right but if you you Can in A short visit though you just look at it And you pass on because you haven’t got The time Right but you can see it and then there Are various other parts of rome Which should be seen um but The main one would be the peter’s Basilica And there are some of the main vatican Museums because They’re magnifi you’ve never seen such Magnificence And such art well i’m looking forward to It oh it’s a marvelous thing It’s it’s simply marvelous and rome has Some aura which He exists no place else and they say Nancy parto de roma nobody ever lived Wrong once you’ve been there And it’s true but before you go I must know your dates and before i mean Before you go wrong Um oh indeed i i will let you know i’ll Be in rome actually uh I i believe october uh second october Well no that’s wrong now i let me get Back to you on that Yeah actually it’s at the end we can Talk about we have all the time all Right uh here’s the facts i want to read You we’re going to get down to some hard Stuff here

Uh dear art i’m sure the good father Would agree that belief in god must come From one’s Own faith then it would uh would it not Be true That faith is necessary for one to Believe that demons also exist I personally believe that his god Meaning yours father Or any god does not exist to me It’s all a fairy tale so would my Non-belief Of the angel and demon god and devil Heaven and hell Dogma mean that i am one whose body Cannot be possessed and if so what does That say about That particular theology So i guess number one would somebody of His sort Of be somebody whose body could not be Possessed No no no his body can be possessed Um his belief or disbelief Is no guarantee his body won’t be Possessed Or can’t be possessed but that doesn’t Mean it will be either It’s the profile we try to create the Profile of the possessible person art We’ve tried it since 1970 and there is No profile there is no profile It’s a random thing happening rich poor Good evil male female homosexual

Heterosexual educators are uneducated Uh it doesn’t make any difference that’s Not the norm apparently we don’t know What the norm is It looks to us like completely random Choice Because i have art between you and me And the holy spirit i know very naughty People I really do in new york i mean people Who who have morals that i can’t share I know mafia people i’ve come across My share of these people of in many Walks of life but they’re not possessed They’re just very naughty You know how actually it’s a very good Question uh there are as you point out Many Naughty people it’s a very kind word Yeah uh how do you Delineate between the very naughty and The possessed Well the very naughty are usually Terribly honest about their naughtiness A high-class call girl who is simply a Prostitute Will tell you honestly when she lets her Hair down that she is that A mafia soldier who Is on vacation over here from the west Coast because They he’s done something over there and He’s in he’s in retirement for the Moment over here

I’m exciting people i know they’ll Explain exactly what happened in fact One of my first contacts as a priest in In In new york was with a mafia soldier who Had been shot up And needs his absolution and anointing Afraid he was going to die But that’s one kind the other kind the Possessed kind is something very Different And then there’s the very base the Various stages of possession But it’s a very different thing the Phenomena is different the behavior is Different The things surrounding them are Different the atmosphere the smell The behavior the look the language Father Does possession come upon a person Slowly In stages or does it come all at once Slowly and in stages it’s like any Addiction It’s like any addiction uh it becomes For instance we’re dealing now with a New generation art really There are always 20 somethings or 30-somethings Very few 40s but they’re in the 20s and 30s and The the situation is generally the same As the young man who came to me

About 15 years ago and said look father I want as such and such And such and such and church and i made A pact with the devil I said to him if you really are satan And if you have power give me this And he said i got it and now he said he Won’t let me go And he did it slowly and then i inquired Into how it happened and His mind got used to the idea of asking For help And uh for really a leg up And he got the leg up in various places And succeeded tremendously in his In his uh in his profession And then he found that his mind was Locked and his will was locked And he wasn’t free he wasn’t free to Love And he wasn’t free to choose and finally It wasn’t free to die Father there are many people who have at One time or another Uh let it cross their mind yes uh Let me have this let me succeed in this Let me do this Yes and um i’ll sell my soul whatever Yeah now how does one know Whether one actually has made a pact With the devil or one has just had a Fleeting Uh hard little thought that went away No it’s a very good question

There’s this art and those Whom it has happened will know exactly What i’m talking about There is this lock they find On their will on their will And there’s the control of their mind Which they lose it’s not that they go All Hairy or they lose it as we say But it is that they find that their mind Is restricted In certain ways and their will They cannot do certain things they Cannot Exercise compassion they cannot They can’t desire certain things They can’t really desire their wife Or their husband if it’s a woman is in Question There’s it’s the peculiar lock on the Will and that’s generally what sends Them The ones that are saved sends them Running for a priest or an exorcist What happens in some cases is that they Go Further into it and they’re completely Programmed and controlled well And then you have perfect possession out Of which i have never seen any person Emerge Never never i haven’t seen them now i’m Only 17. so it is It is not sir the uh the classic

Possession that we all Recall from the exorcist not that but a More perfect um it’s a perfect Possession You see the classical form is the person Who Makes themselves very obnoxious in their Behavior And they’re really like the child when a Child is hungry an Infant who can’t talk they bang their Heads on the ground and they Throw themselves around they may protest And they’re saying i’m hungry Or i’m dirty or i’m thirsty That’s one form and that something can Be done about that But when they’re perfectly possessed They don’t ask for any help And they they they issue any help And uh how many how many people father Do you think are in that condition uh Let’s just talk about america right now Forget the rest of the world On a percentile basis sure A minimal crowd a minimal set of people By minimal what do i mean well we are 260 million isn’t it or something like That Yes um I’m trying to make a proportion between The The number i’ve known and the general Population

I suppose about uh about 10 million 10 million if i if i am in my mind i’m Calculating the proportion Of people i’ve been with in this whole Field well here’s a tough question for You huh Would we would we uh generally if we Could see these 10 million people Would we find that they are powerful the Successful The uh you would none of them are Obscure None of them are failures none of them Are without respect and means A lot of them are in high places And as charles ii said about his Ministers the higher the goal The higher they climb the blacker their Bottoms get but that’s the Very worst possible scenario for the World Uh these are the people who are shaping Policy Well that is the difficulty that we do Find Those in charge of things And when you do what i have seen i’ve Seen The following take place in a certain Bureaucracy Which i won’t name but of a very Well-known bureaucracy Of a worldwide nature not merely American

People by people people by men and women Of ordinary means some of them hindus Some of them Christians some of them are jews some of Them nothing at all But with a natural What i know for want and better for a Civic virtue Isolating somebody who is obviously Perfectly possessed And getting rid of them because somehow Rather they They just everybody agreed with the Consensus that this person Um was in alliance with something that Militated against our best instincts As human beings i’ve seen that happen And not for any religious motive either Just Not i mean consciously religious motive Do you understand what i’m saying That they they felt uncomfortable in the Presence of this person yes Also saw that the direction of their Actions and decisions which they Had power to take within the bureaucracy Was evil humanly just humanly just Humanly Um i’ve seen that happen but yes There are people in very high places as Well as in normally high places Who are perfectly possessed There’s no doubt about that and They will never be saved as far as

My experience in life goes art i don’t Touch god’s grace or god’s greatness And god’s power but neither do i Doubt or belittle the power of lucifer Because he is the prince Satan is something else as you know That’s not the same being Satan and lucifer a different one from The other but i don’t belittle the power Of lucifer he is the prince of this World as christ called him And he has his he has his kingdom Uh and at the present moment he reigns Supreme in the middle plateau Well if lucifer has all of these Perfectly possessed people yes uh that Are in effect in league with have made a Deal with him That’s right then why does lucifer from Time to time do this horrible thing And possess the otherwise totally Innocent who have not asked for in Any way um any sort of deal With him well nobody is possessed Against their will You always say yes Even the semi possessed evenly obsessed Which is the stage prior to obser To possession they say yes You are never possessed against your Will you’re never obsessed against your Will You open a door and you say well Who are you or put a foot in let me look

At it or It’s partial invitation now but What must be stressed is that this Doesn’t happen to everybody who’s just Barely naughty don’t say i use the word Naughty to cover all sorts of Human malefactions i’m sure but It doesn’t follow that’s a random thing As far as we’re concerned But there’s one more thing which we must Stress and it’s it’s It’s not a cause for pride on our part But it’s this that lucifer it can be Intensely stupid As satan can also as all demons can be They’re extremely limited in their Knowledge they don’t know Everything they’re not all powerful In fact they have merely been conceded Certain Powers by god and that Is one of the mysteries of this creation Why the my evil spirits have been given Power but that they have And that they reign supreme on the Middle plateau there’s no doubt about That Father i recently saw a movie called the Craft I don’t know whether you’ve ever seen it I’ve heard about it uh It is about four young women Uh who decide they will call upon dark Spirits

To do their bidding uh it’s quite well Done Um calling on dark spirits from north South east west Yes um it’s a horrifying Uh movie uh and to back it up I’ve interviewed a number of people who Suggest that Young teenage girls particularly young Teenage girls Yes uh are powerful uh That they frequently have things occur Around them where poltergeist Problems have occurred uh they’ve Occurred around Young teenage girls now you have these Four girls actively seeking out the dark Forces To do their bidding is such a thing Possible Oh yes and there’s an everyday Occurrence in our experience Now something everybody does it or a lot Of people do it But as far as happening art it’s an Everyday occurrence Back now to father malachi martin by the By the way father Uh wabc radio Uh in new york uh the big one there in New york is having discussions with us Uh presently about possibly uh getting On the air there Big apple and uh for two saturdays

Uh recently we sent them programs that We had done in the past which they ran From i think Midnight five o’clock in the morning and One of those programs Was one of the ones i had done with you Oh thank you very much Um so you were heard widely there in Your own city Very very much um at any rate um I considered it uh one of the best and So we sent it along and they ran and i Thought you’d want to know I certainly did do and thank you so much That’s excellent All right uh father is magic real The the best answer the most accurate Answer is Yes there is a magic there is A magical system Which is real yes all right uh as an Example Um again i refer to the movie the craft Yes in that movie uh it showed uh there Was a dispute between a couple of the Young ladies One grabbed a henko hair from the other And they began doing these um these dark Spells right yes and uh In the movie this this girl who had had This magical spell cast against her Began to lose all her hair Began falling out that kind of magic Father

A real tangible things that can be done To other people Yes that can be under certain conditions Can be real and effective and horrible No doubt about it it can be so it can be In effect Foisted uh off from one person uh To another using using dark forces Yes under certain conditions under Certain conditions And one would want to outline those but In general it is that Both the the uh the hexa the speller The person doing it to somebody else Must have an arrangement Be in league with yes have a pact with Yes uh demonic forces And the person affected must lack Protection Because we all need protection and uh What protection is there uh To put it in human language on this on This level of understanding art It is the arrangement whereby I at least in general in my life trend And in the way i behave i follow the Dictates Of what i call my conscience which is Really My angel because we’re all assigned an Angel to protect Us because From in on this again in in this context There is always there is always danger

Of being attacked by demonic forces Either directly or indirectly and we Have an angel A guardian angel we call it or him Or her there’s no sex involved But we so we use him or her or it We always have an angel who can protect Us if we forsake that angel and the General trend of our life Is in the very opposite direction Then we are liable there’s no doubt About that and I can’t tell you i have one whole file One called firing cabinet full of Letters from people Who are victims of that you are now 76 That’s right 76 years old truthfully I’ll be 76 On july 23. on on the 23rd Oh my um when i when i talked to your Uh secretary yes uh the other day she Said You were at the time we talked um At an exorcism that’s right You’re still doing exorcisms oh yes it’s At the present moment is usually Directive that is that i’m in charge of An exorcism Um i i’m not usually Doing it myself i don’t need to because There are two or three going on at the Same time And i decide what must be done Interview the people and assign it

And then observe and the time Step in to correct something um It goes on continuously because they They they since i started this work in The united states But since 1970 and it’s now 1997 98 coming into it yes i um The amount the incidence of possession Uh and therefore of exorcism has Increased Between 750 to eight hundred percent Wow enormous and this is only in the Northeast corner art In the northeast corner um the increases And then the amount of covens that have Sprung up Genuine covenant yes um Is enormous um when when you say common Uh would that be for example uh wicca Yes there are wicker clovens and are Is a general term for a group of people Who are linked together by one Main point adoration and service of Lucifer Uh you know many people involved father In wicca Uh will tell me constantly that um They are not uh of the dark side oh yeah There is there is a white wicker as they Call this And it’s really nature worship and That sort of business you know it’s it’s Innocent In that sense there’s uh it’s

It’s a reversal to the gods of nature And because it causes nature as such And the death course has its own Liabilities as regards belief in In god itself in god himself But the the white wicked i know I know the chief the chief wiccan in Long island She’s a very respectable lady and she Holds classes teaching people How to be uh how to enter wicca why Twitter that will have nothing to do With Any other form it’s all but that’s not What we’re talking about really That’s uh it’s a nature worship And um a lot of people are in this Many many who are in this are in it Because of disillusionment with religion Judaism christianity catholicism yes Presbyterianism You know what i mean they’ve had it up To there as we say with a former Religion therefore they find this Consoling And they love animals and that’s what They never have sacrifices of little Animals dogs or cats or birds or Horses or anything like that it’s a Nature worship And it’s you see if we use the word Paganism Uh it has connotations for the For the ear that are sort of bad you

Know these are What the ancient romans and ancient Greeks and all those people practiced Is it as dangerous for one’s soul as Even the darker forms of Uh wicca no no no this is not And i’ve met many wicker people who are Led Out of this uh by sheer devotion to Nature And by finding out that the beauty and The truth around them Must mirror some greater beauty greater Truth More permanent uh beauty and truth Elsewhere and that’s god but It all depends uh it’s very hard to give A truth An accurate answer to your question Because it all depends on what graces Have been offered you Has god entered your life and have you Refused him do you understand me Have you rejected an invitation I don’t doubt a creator However i have no tangible Proof and i am the kind of person who Um has a very difficult time Believing in that which i cannot prove And i’m constantly striving to prove And to learn through every avenue i can Manage some of them probably Uh very less worthy than uh

You can imagine uh but i i’m constantly Searching and looking And yet i’ve been unable to make that Leap Of faith and i don’t know that i’ve ever Received a specific invitation how does One know Well i’ll tell you somebody has said and It’s It’s a way of entering into this Somebody has said that If i say to you and i’m not i’m not me And you’re not art bill So we’re too mythical people but if i Say to you Look i want to love you That’s the beginning of love It’s the beginning of love if i say i’d Love to believe in you It’s the beginning of belief in fact in In there’s no jewish theologian or Christian theologian who would Dispute the fact that if you say that It means that it’s a grace in itself It’s a place in itself just to say the Words Otherwise you’d be selfless you wouldn’t Bother you wouldn’t bother your head You’ll regard it all as As a pitfall as nonsense it’s garbage And there’s this about it to art there’s This About it also that You can be drawn

Along for decades By the wish that one could get grace And one doesn’t apparently consciously Mentally rationally And all the while you’re getting grace Because grace is something of which You’re not conscious Does it come upon you as a slow stage Possession would that’s right it does And it comes upon you in this That when you find that for instance the Fire is in you That would that once upon a time Um tended you to less good actions Tended you to less Pure motives That limited your original fits Of anger of lust Of Of jealousy when you find those fires Dying down And a certain specific sense Entering your inner being Then there’s something taking place but Is that not a natural Progression of age no no no No pastoral experience teaches me And i’m long enough at it that on the Contrary Uh in my native language gaelic The dolonesia because the donald volcas Is a famous phrase Getting older and deeper into sin the Older you get the worst you get

It no pastorally it’s not the way it is Art People do not mellow and mature and get Gentle and calm and compassionate On the contrary they don’t except some People do Well then maybe there is some hope for Me because uh surely Those things are occurring to me those Things you described As i rolled are occurring to me i know They are and what What god must do in your case in my case In every case when he wants them He must purify the rust in you whatever Erroneous error erroneous thoughts you Ever had whatever Excesses you could we committed when we Were younger And more stupid than we are at the Present moment oh believe me uh there Were many for me Oh well we we all have them there’s no Human being who if they’re honest Don’t doesn’t say the same thing but the Difference Is the difference between the men and The boys is that There’s that you know somebody is Certain it’s true Between the ages of 35 to 55 or 65 It’s a corridor of youth and at the end Of that And towards the end of it we begin

Certainly to realize certain lessons we Have learned If the grace of god is working on us and You see god god has no form He he’s he’s he we you say he Because that’s the way the bible speaks And that’s where we talk in human Language We have no neutral words in our english Language anyway to express His existence but he draws us along Gently i think Until finally he can perfect it before We die So that when we die we go to him and not Elsewhere Good uh here’s the facts in i Have suspected uh father martin that i May be possessed Very subtly for a long time now how it Started is a long story but after Listening To you my suspicion is now much stronger Please Uh tell me if there is anything to do About this or What it means for my soul in the long Term i’m really scared Please help unsigned of course But now in this case you see we don’t Know What religious denomination this person Is whether christian or jewish or hindu Does it matter well it does because of

The things we can appeal to for Understanding you see look you and i now Already from all the talking we’ve done Together We have a mutual understanding yes you Haven’t got to explain your terms to me At all I know where you’re going with a Sentence and you know generally where I’m going When i’m talking but with a total Stranger You have to have some surface group Markings you must know What’s in their background by way of Education what Religious if any ritual They have followed or been exposed to And what are their thoughts and then What has happened in concrete life Concrete life situations with their Wives or their children or their Husbands This particular person What i would say to them whether they Mean something to them or not They should start saying a simple prayer And it is to christ and it is this its Five words Hide me in your wounds And see the effect of that prayer on Them And that they can always write to me if Necessary uh

Can you uh perform an exorcism on Somebody who Is a non-catholic or even somebody Without A apparent faith sure so you can if they Consent I mean if there’s a basic consent There’s a there’s a civil as well as a Religious aspect of this there’s a civil Aspect you can’t do something to Somebody Unless you get the consent of somebody Who is authority over them Is it possible to perform an exorcism on Somebody without their consent in other Words Uh a worst case scenario could somebody Literally Uh be tied to a bed or Uh bound in some way by family members And have somebody like you called in yes But you have their prior consent At some given moment they’ve said yes There must be something like that Otherwise You know otherwise they’re perfectly Possessed you’re violating their civil Rights You’re limiting their actions violating Their civil rights Yes because i mean if we suspect That john x is possessed if we have Strong reasons for thinking so Um unless we have john’s general consent

Or his particular consent Uh and john is is over 18 he’s an adult Uh we just can’t aggress him and time Down Not in this day and age so you can only Exercise those who are less than Perfectly Possessed there is no exorcism for the Perfectly possessed None none whatever the personally Possessed You can give them a bottle of holy water And they’ll drink it They can handle a host a consecrated Host at mass Means nothing to them they can look on a Crucifix and say Oh well that’s romanesque and it Probably is 9th century You know it’ll mean nothing to them uh You said that exorcisms uh in the Northeast at the very least are up 750 To 800 percent Right that’s terrifying uh and what what Does it mean to you What’s coming Oh it means uh not to put a tooth in it As they say in the english It means that the prince Has a wider kingdom than he had When we started off in 1970 anyway That means he has a wider clientele And therefore that you see i’ve been I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but

There’s a certain Uh there’s a certain disturbance Perturbation of mind this equilibrium Um at least a certain uncertainty in People today There wasn’t 20 years 25 years ago 30 Years ago 40 years i have noticed Believe me There is this peculiar thing this and It’s the demon There are demons assigned to do this to People and you get up in the morning and You feel lousy And you’re discouraged but everything And there’s no apparent reason for it You’ve got money in the bank and Your wife or your husband are very happy With you the children are all healthy More less And there’s no war on and nobody’s out To kill you And yet you’re dissatisfied and empty Yet you Are empty dry and despondent yes And that means that you’re under attack That means that they want also to affect Your spirits So that you spread the satisfaction and You spread Discontent and you spread unpeace And that’s why we all love somebody who When they come into a room The light comes with them light and Peace and

Joy of some kind of rubber and you know That person when you’re in their Presence Exactly that they don’t make your horse Laugh every moment of the day Sure they do give you this and when they Leave it goes with them and you don’t Want them to go It’s uh it’s you know you can see and It’s the simplest people have it And the opposite is true as well when You are in the uh Presence of a person a perfectly Possessed person Yeah you you know it you don’t wonder About it you know it You know and then a lot of people see Who are not acquainted with the Phenomenon itself and Father uh hold on we’re at the top of The hour stand by we’ll be back uh And open the phone lines uh but i want To set aside one line For an interesting purpose Uh we have with us a very holy man Indeed father malady martin adviser to Two popes uh And you’ve probably heard him before Perhaps not this may be the first time Uh father martin is an exorcist he has Done Many many exorcisms he now directs Exorcisms I think it would be useful

And intriguing to open a line A special line uh for those Who are either atheists Or those who practice the dark arts And i would like to hear your comments And i would like to hear an Interaction yes this invites controversy But that’s what we do here And it really is uh a classic See how can i put this i guess uh uh i Want to show A classic delineation between good and Evil we have good And i know there’s plenty of evil out There so i’m actually inviting it On one line I would ask the audience cooperation um Otherwise uh you can call any of the Other numbers But i am going to hold one line open for Those of you who claim to be atheists Or practice the dark arts That line is area code 702 727-1222 I’ll repeat it again and i would ask Everybody else not in that category to Please now hang up Area code 702 seven Two seven one two two Two i have a nose or maybe that’s a poor Expression I can safely say that i get many many Calls and faxes From atheists

I would be interested in hearing from You many calls from those who practice The dark hearts magic whatever you want To call it Uh so again i request the uh cooperation Of the audience In not calling that number unless you Are one of the above It is area code 702 727 1222 it should be intriguing uh father Welcome back Thank you we have done this on previous Programs father but If you would uh describe for the Audience Uh before we get to the phones exactly Uh What a real exorcism is like Well the essence of an exorcism when It’s really an exorcism By the way just as a preliminary remark Let me state this much A lot of people have the idea that Reciting Healing prayers over somebody is an Exorcism it’s not The essence of exorcism is a Confrontation Between the exorcist and the The demon presumably possessing the Person who is being exorcised It is a personal confrontation question And answer question and answer and Command

And question and answer it’s not a Question of a beautiful prayer Or aspirations all that can be included One way or the other but The chief the essence of it is the Exorcism itself the The confrontation and the idea the Confrontation is to Relieve this person of the Power possessing their will and their Mind Therefore their soul what what occurs During this confrontation i mean What it is first of all there’s the the Difficulty of getting The demon to talk away from the phone a Little bit father Yeah it’s the the difficulty is that the Exorcist must first of all achieve is Getting Into contact with the demon presumably Possessing this person That’s the first thing and that Sometimes takes some time Sometimes no but sometimes it takes a Long time a lot of cajoling a lot of Abuse And a lot of effort and there are Certain rules that the Exorcist must follow otherwise he’s Going to fail Uh number one when that does take place When there is contact And there is dialogue then

The exorcist must find out the name the Demon assumes The demon always assumes the name when He possesses somebody And how long it’s there And why it’s there and then get its Consent to depart And that’s the essence of an exorcism to Get its consent to depart suppose it Obviously does not want to depart it Doesn’t ever want to depart You’ve got to get it it’s submission It’s consent is a difficult word to use It’s it’s submission To being expelled because you see There is an entire theory and belief Behind it all art It is that as long as this cosmos Endures as it is Uh demons have a certain liberty A certain freedom and they roam on what Is called Figuratively the middle plateau Once this cosmos ends and there’s only Heaven Then there’s only hell and they go back There Permanently and it’s more intense Suffering for them They never want to go back there they’ll Rather roam around the world and You have examples of that in the in the Christian bible In the the demons who possessed these

People that christ Exorcised they said please please put us Into this wine Remember the incident of the garrison Swine art they had the whole It was a hog farm obviously there was a Whole flock of hogs And they possessed these poor animals And they all rushed into the sea Over a cliff they didn’t want to be sent Back To hell to suffer just to suffer they Wanted to roam the world on the middle Plateau But it’s a whole it’s a whole mentality Which the Exorcist must have and uh because he’s Got to understand who he’s up against Father question the middle plateau yes Um Remote viewers are psychics Uh people who claim powers uh Uh and and insight um that others Do not have are they dabbling and moving Within And joining with this middle plateau Yeah Dabbling is a we is a is a mild word They’re doing much more than that And it’s a very dangerous thing because You can be locked into it and eventually End up Possessed certainly obsessed And it’s a very tempting one for many

People who have psychic gifts I had an interview with somebody there a Few days ago And he wants out of it he originally Entered it voluntarily because It corresponded to his sensitivity And he felt that he could get certain Wisdom from it Now he knows it’s slavery and he wants Out of it And he will get out of it too uh so the Middle plateau is a very dangerous thing And People who use ouija boards who do Transcendental meditation Yes who engage in spiritual sciences Properly so-called who indulge in black Wicker Uh or in direct cultivation Of demons they Are entering willy-nilly the middle Plateau and it’s very dangerous This is very dangerous all right let us Uh let us go to the lines Uh on my special line you’re on the air With father malachi martin uh good Morning Good morning and thank you good morning Oh you’re gonna have to speak up i can Barely hear you where are you nearly Here Oh okay um seattle washington Yes and uh thank you for taking my call Um i’m a 48 year old woman and i’ve um

I grew up in a couple of orphanages and I had christianity Thrown at me my entire life And there’s one question that no Minister or Priest has ever been ever ever ever been Able to answer for me And this is why i feel that i am a Atheist And that is that i have a daughter That’s an adult I love her unconditionally and i assume That my ability to love her Unconditionally Is my newt to what would be God of the universe the creator if there Is one And with my daughter i would never say To her If you don’t love me i’m going to send You to hell And that’s what i understand that Christianity is all about And that god of christianity is about That if we don’t love him and Obey him then we’re going to be sent to This horrible Horrible place and suffer eternity In the hells in the belly of fire and That’s when I don’t understand that um our malachi i Don’t Understand i know ma’am i i get to Exactly what you’re saying

It’s it’s not as it’s not As i’m not saying this about you but It’s not as Crude a belief or as rough a belief as That um it’s not an either or In that horrible sense if it were Then that would be a most unloving god And i would agree with you what’s that That is how i have felt I know but that has nothing to me please Well that’s not exactly the picture of Things The the essence of it it would take a Very long time to go through it all but Yes The essential is this That there are certain things which Please him They conformed to his godly nature and His godly will And by the way i’m sure you observe most Of them The law of moral laws the ethical laws Honesty and purity and compassion and Gentleness And you know living a decent life And loving your neighbor not doing Obvious harm to anybody really Except incidentally or in a fit but not As a policy Not being an evil person and one sense Is that from The accents you’re using and the words You’re using

That’s what he requires as his practice And if somebody lives like that there is No way they can go to hell There is no way they can be punished Because they are fulfilling this person I’ve ever heard Say that they’re fulfilling his will now Does this about it that god is Infinitely patient because he’s god and He has An individual knowledge of each person’s Soul and being He knows my every thought and he Knows the marrow of my bones and the Point Is that uh he measures Uh his graces to suit what i need But there is no way on earth If i practice Love of my neighbor and love of myself Too i don’t mutilate myself i don’t I don’t desecrate my body desecrate my Soul With evil on my body with excess And i do my duty and i live a normally Good life There is no way on earth that god would Even dream Of punishing me with hellfire nowhere at All So but that’s that’s really i’ve cut it Down to the essentials Ma’am but that’s the essentials of it Uh this this god is

Is love well i hope that helps you uh Obviously it’s an answer you’ve never Received before that’s true and art um I’ve listened to you since 92 and this Is the first time i’ve called And i really appreciate your program Okay well thank you very much for the Call and uh good luck to you god bless You ma’am Uh east of the rockies you’re on the air With father malachi martin hi Yes hi how’s it going i need to speak The art bill if i can please Uh you are speaking to art bell uh with Father malachi martin Um speaking to him yes oh this is great All right well then um what it is is Is i’m practicing i’m practicing white Magic and everything And i don’t know i get it can i let you Know my story how much time do i have Well we’re coming up to a break but you Will be obviously a very interesting Call so What i’ll do is uh hold you over where Are you coming from i’m calling from Jacksonville in florida Jacksonville florida all right i’ll tell You what stay right where you are Thank you and uh we’ll do our break and Come back to you all right sure thing Back now to father malachi martin and um Uh my caller uh who claims to be Practicing uh

White wicca caller you’re back on the Air Hi how’s it going my name is richard Richard okay you doing good All right cool well then um yeah Everything that i’m fixing to say kind Of relevates Or excuse me it kind of goes with Everything that you’ve been talking About the last few days With bible codes and so on and so forth Was with what you were talking about Today well anyways My best way to describe it with with Which i think his name was steve who he Was talking about A few days ago well anyways i’m like Blabber and i’m like you are blabbering So Get to the point please all right okay The best way i can describe it sir would Be echoes all right Say say what say when everything first Started it out right You got nothing and then what happened Is there’s nothing to consciousness that Consciousness is that gets you up Filling in the morning and it’s just Zinging right out there that’s what god Is right there he’s everything that’s Good and it’s great and it’s creating All right Okay as far as satanist it goes I mean you could stretch it out on a

Line okay on one end you got totally Just Hell and on the other end you got just Heaven And in the middle you got what y’all Were talking about earlier the third Plane That’s that’s what you might want to Call the color magic that’s what’s Easiest for most people to understand Is that the world you’re in excuse me i Said is that the world you’re in No i’m what are you talking about man i Well i’m talking about what you said When you came on the air that you Practice White wicca uh yeah no i practiced just It’s not white wicked just all right Well then uh thank you for the call Uh you’re not even consistent with what You first said um on the Special first time caller line you’re on The air with father malachi martin hello Hello hello oh okay i’m on Oh these new way just make my keys hurt Art Uh i’ve been uh practicing wicca for About 30 years Plus and father martin there Sounded so in touch with everything Um i was wondering if i could ask him a Couple of questions Go ahead oh hey man all right uh father Yes um would you say that things have

Been going kind of crazy in the world Since the Catholic church broke with tradition Yes uh would it be better if the Church went back to the old traditions Yes but i think now That’s impossible they can’t go back Unfortunately What will happen will be some new form But unfortunately I say unfortunately you you can see my My prejudices there It would be better but they can’t They’ve gone so far Yeah okay because uh at one time i was a Catholic Uh matter of fact with my religion i i Pulled some of my favorite saints into It too Because as you know with wicca we Encompass a lot of different religions I know you do i know you do yeah um That’s all right provided you honor Question oh yes oh yes uh It’s a strange combination uh but as Most wiccans Find a place that’s comfortable for Themselves I’ve started a couple of covens and that Was one of the main things that i would Present to the people is for them to Find a place for them that was Comfortable Yes and in wicca we really don’t have

Black and white That’s just an easy way to explain what We do Yes that’s i agree with that but we we Have to use it as the way Yeah denominating things you know one Thing i’ve been finding is there’s been A lot of dream weavers running around Uh bothering people yes um Why i know with the new age uh Well the dream weaving is a very weak Form of the darker art Yes there is there is something left Loose there which wasn’t hadn’t been That loose up to now Father what is dream weaving uh Ma’am you explained in your language oh Well You could probably explain it easier Than i could dreamweaving Is when you send negative forces to People when they’re sleeping That’s right you can control a person Better when their defenses are down and Then stop The defenses of them right you can Cause them a great illness if they don’t Sleep properly Some people have gotten very paranoid Have you done that to people no sir i Haven’t i’ve put up Uh findings and awards to protect some People that i’m working with good good They give them protection that they lack

Right uh there’s no doubt about it Ma’am that What i was going to say is a lot of These new agers are using this dream Weaving I know they’ll and they don’t they don’t Know what they’re dealing with No they don’t and they end up in in the Ditch as we say Figuratively speaking and there’s There’s also behind it all too man Does this fact that there has been let Loose upon us Some other forces that uh That um That help dream weaving of an evil kind Yeah and um we we’re trying to combat That and that’s very difficult It’s very difficult it comes for an Awful lot of insomnia it accounts for an Awful lot of Disorder in families and disruptions and Divorces It accounts for a terrific amount of Damage oh yes And um i’ve also noticed there’s a lot Of imps running around lately Yes pardon me amps imps Uh what are those uh One of a better definition minor devils That are mischievous Yes i mean that’s the closest definition I can come

Yeah it’s a good way of putting it they Are Mischievous or mischievous as you say um They are devils they they belong to the Middle plateau for the present moment That’s their plane of activity And um they can be called poltergeists If you want to call them there They behave like poltergeists at times Um There are a lot of those but i think That’s all part of this Avalanche that’s been let loose upon us I can’t I don’t know why but that’s the way Things have gone And you said it did coincide with the Disruption of the catholic tradition I don’t know why wildcard line you’re on The air with father malachi martin Good morning wonderful to speak to you Again mr bell i just listened to your I just tuned in and i heard mention of The catholic church I wonder if mr martin could give more Insight in what is actually going on With the catholic church Well uh provided i don’t scandalize you Or you put your feeling wisely well you Know what i mean i have to be careful Because Uh it’s one of the few things that my Gentle lord jesus condemned was to give Scandal

And there are ways where’s the giving Scandal but if you want to Want me to be very frank here’s what’s Happening as far as i’m concerned There is a worldwide apostasy Going on amongst catholics and it is on The highest levels And the lowest level mr bill do you know Who i am Uh no not yet who are you well This this will give you a clue uh Mr martin what do you feel is the Catholic church’s connection with Vampirism Oh with what uh a father yes you are Speaking to somebody who claims to be a Vampire Ah mr bell i’ll be sending you some Literature photos and A lot of information hopefully you can Help Me spread the word about what is Happening with vampires in this country And in the world right now Have you ever spoken with a vampire Father yes i have I have there was a School of vampirology That was called in long island i knew The members of it in the 70s i’ve lost Track of all of them That school’s been shut down it has Moved really Yes it’s now somewhere in the midwest

Well yet I know that then there was another Settlement Or group in louisville kentucky That’s not it’s the exact same school Yeah Yeah it is um but i i Only had passing um but do you know when You You are aware that the catholic church Is involved in vampirism Uh no i’m not aware of that that is Officially Involved in vampirism the catholic Church of today is at the catholic Church it was Let’s say 30 years ago he said the Catholic church is not the church it was Years ago i think Oh that i know that i fully agree with You But that there’s wholesale official Vampirism I did not know A lot of i’m not even contesting that a Lot of the scandal that is uh Plaguing the catholic church today yeah Children It isn’t a coincidence that this is Happening all over the country Yeah and why the church is paying big Money to keep it quiet I know we’re paying an offer and we’ve

Paid since 1985 i think The catholic church in america has had To shell out Not quite a billion dollars in Out-of-court settlements wow For this for child molestation Um it’s more than molestation in many Ways i’m sorry dude It is the molestation is a is a general Word covering an awful lot Yes uh when you receive the information I i need to find out how to send it to You all right well i understand i’m I am in hiding yeah you just listened to My address uh father Yes um i heard you agreeing with him More than not With regard to the state of the church Yes The causes of that state is something Else a billion Dollars short of a billion dollars Almost a billion in out of course Settlements Why why is there so much Evil uh that it requires that kind of Money to cover it Well art you’ve asked me the 64 000 Question if we knew why this plague Has descended upon us in the states just In the united states Of america alone we’d be very happy Because then we could do something about It

We don’t quite know now by the way it Doesn’t involve More than four to six percent And uh it’s the official figure of the Clergy But the damage is huge and The reports we’re getting about europe And ireland in particular Are very discouraging the same same Plague Which i call it uh is afflicting those Places Beginning to afflict them but now that It’s Due to vampirism uh That’s something new in my in my Horizons All right uh east of the rockies you’re On the air with father malachi martin Hello Hello there no i guess i didn’t push the Butt sorry about that uh was to the Rockies you’re on air with father Malachi Martin hello oh all right this is Stephan in albuquerque Albuquerque yes sir yes um Father martin it’s been a pleasure and An inspiration to hear you on our show Thank you very much for saying that sir Uh i wanted to relate two experiences to You and uh with sort of like your Thoughts on it Yeah um one was a number of years ago i

Was uh Involved in uh i was experimenting a Little bit with shamanism Yeah and i had a rather negative Experience I tried to induce the shamanic trance And shortly thereafter a large Blue and red bird with a very long Beach appeared before me about three Feet away And its beak started pulling like the Best way i can describe it is the stream Of energy from my chest At which point i invoked the name of the Lord jesus christ Uh and and the bird disappeared And my question on that would be If what your thoughts on shamanism Were generally and if it is reported to Be a positive Endeavor by those who practice it why i Ended up having This negative confrontation that’s one Story that i’d like to comment on The other is that my father passed away About four years ago Under very painful circumstances after a Long protected illness And about two months ago i had a Visitation From him um did you see him I didn’t see him i was upstairs and I was asleep at least i believe i was Yeah and i felt myself moving downstairs

And i picked up the phone because the Phone was ringing And it was him yeah and he said as only My father would have said at the time he Said Things sure are different on the other Side and Which is very characteristic of Something you know like you would say Yes And it was amazing because I wanted to ask a million questions About you know how he died in Some family conflicts that had arisen From the circumstances of his death And he said i don’t have time to talk But just be true to yourself Be happy with who you are and i’ll talk Again later all right father Uh from that i would ask you uh do People Communicate with uh people who have Passed on Do they really communicate with them or Is this A concoction of their own needs in their Own mind If it were merely a question of the Concoction of their own needs in their Own mind That would be one thing at least it’s Innocent The difficulty is this that our friend Here from

From albuquerque who is very frank Talking to us He endeavored to practice shamanism And shamanism is an open door To the middle plateau and that middle Plateau is Dominated by spirits not friendly to our Souls And they can deceive us and We can be hoaxed without knowing it And especially when it’s a question of Somebody we love like my father Or my mother my sister my brother my Friend my wife My husband um i can be deceived And there’s only one sure way Of avoiding being hoaxed And that is submitting it all To a very sharp rule of discernment Which would take a long time to explain Uh right here and now but It’s spiritual discernment um because Anything touching the spirit and this i Say also to our friend Albuquerque i anything touching the Human spirit Anything invading my soul my will And intellect that’s how my soul has got To uh Is of prime importance because i’m Sitting duck For angels and devils and i must make my Choice and i must be careful What friends i make and i would advise

Him to be very careful about Practicing shamanism he had one Experience which was a warning to him And obviously he’s protected Otherwise that that bird would have tore His heart out All right uh you’re on the air with Father malachi martin good uh good Morning Uh yes sir good morning you know the man Who Calls about the vampirism and all that Yeah he caught a little while ago yes Back in the 70s I used to take a lot of her lucid acid And one night i was a vampire was in the Corner of the living room up at by the Ceiling and hit me like in Seconds and ever since then i’ve had A form of sexual obsession that I mean i’ve even i’ve studied the bible But Father malachi i know the verse where You’re ever learning but you never come To the knowledge of god Yes it’s like i cannot break Away from this i mean i know the bible Inside now I would advise you to seek out Um a negro cyst Because what you describe is a form of Obsession demonic obsession it’s not Quite possession Otherwise you couldn’t be talking like

You talk that Incident happened like in a matter of Seconds Oh yes i mean i could see that thing in The corner By the ceiling and it hit me and i knew It it hit me It’s instantaneous it takes just a Moment of Time and then that other problem Developed and to this day i have that Problem I know i mean i’ve even prayed to god And said i know you will have you But i can’t until you get rid of that Obsession and the only way you get rid Of that Is by means of uh of an exorcist Really and um So drastic you know what i mean an Exorcism Well it’s not drastic in your case Because you’re not resisting it It’s important you know psychologists Oh they there’s no healing there at all All Psychologists and psychiatrists will do For you my friend is this They will make you viable do you know What i mean You’ll be able to carry on but they Watch about what they told me yeah There’s no Yeah they don’t heal you only one person

Can heal you and that’s the grace of our Lord jesus And i should seek out of Because he got a holy priest would that Only be a catholic priest Well i only know holy catholic priests I’m sure there are other holy people And tell what’s going on in my life That’s right if i were to do that Ever since that had happened this has Caused major Problems in my life i’m sure it has i’m Sure it has Father how does how does somebody know That um This may be a question for after we come Back from the break but how does one Know that you have found The right kind of priest you will know That Because when we say the right kind we Must mean somebody Who is close to god somebody capable of Recognizing this Exactly and has the expertise in dealing With it because You know there’s nothing worse than an Ignorant priest who doesn’t know what to Do Nothing worse than or or one that cost The church a lot of money as in wow You know but talking in the context of Good men good stupid men Can do just as much damage inadvertently

You understand me Back now to manhattan new york and Father malachi martin father Um i’ve intentionally invited uh Something of the dark side Just um i guess as a sort of a contrast Uh this evening is something different To do yeah maybe i shouldn’t do it i Don’t know But uh i’m done um but you know what Um there’s a lot of it out there father And a lot of people think these are Kooks or crazy people And they’re not for example the the guy Who called and said he’s a vampire he’s Been very serious I know he’s he’s dead serious he knows What he’s talking about oh yes i i take It very seriously art quite frankly A lot of people father who are basically Good people Think that these these realms these People who are into these things Are not real oh they are the unfortunate Point Is that they are real that’s the Difficulty Exactly right um and these are the People That when you’re doing your serious work You’re working with Aren’t they that’s right all right um Yeah Exactly um you’re on the air with father

Malachi martin Uh good morning good morning thank you For having me sure where are you I’m in the low desert my name is debbie Okay Um dr malachite i believe in both the Dark and light and that they should be Together and not split apart like the Catholics have done And i just wondered in your studies i Study astrology and not the esoteric Kind And at the time of change like the one That happened just before jesus was born There were big floods for a few years And about About ten times as as many years there Were droughts and i wondered if in your Studies there has been reference to that Because most of the references were lost When the Library was burned at alexandria There there were there are references Um there’s a there is a set of men Called the church fathers and they lived Between Oh between 180 and 680 Taken those as cliche dates and their Their their writings Are considered to be very valuable for The For christianity and they do speak about Such things They speak about such uh climactic

Uh changes climatological changes i Should say And calamities of various kinds with Water And earthquakes and Mainly mainly floods and volcanoes They do you’re right i’m curious about Something you said ma’am you said you Work with the dark And the light how do you do that well i Don’t Separate it i think that both are a Natural part of our environment And so and in fact i’m really worried About some Tendencies with a new age i’m glad People are trying to get in touch with Themselves But um i’m sure the doctor knows that a Lot of the people who are learning Channeling from other people who don’t Really know anything Seem to have more contact with things That the catholics would call incubus And succubus than they are with having Contact with anything that would give us Valid information and i just and In that vein i wonder if he’s had to Cure a number of people who well there Are people who say once you open the Door It’s really hard to get it shut and i Think these people in their innocence And wanting to see just

The good and the light and the happy Aren’t looking At what they’re doing i know you’re Right there is a lot of Innocent mistakes there which en end up In A lot of pain um i Think that if we could have a long long Conversation which we can’t have tonight Anyway The when you say you work with the dark And the light You know those are traditional things Within christianity itself Absolutely i grew up in a christian Household i know Um and by the way there’s a balance Beyond the Union of dark and light too which i’m Sure you’ve have come to or will Come to sir when i was a child the People who Worked with the person that was the Missionary in our town who had been to India Accused me of being bodhisattva so i Kind of look at everything Because i’m supposed to be here to look At the whole picture Well the the role of bodhisattva is You know has a i i don’t know how to put This but It has a parallel within christianity Itself

A buddhist wasn’t that the john the Baptist Yes it’s a question of sacrificing Oneself for one fellow man for one’s Fellow People um there’s nothing nothing Disruptive for evil about the Bodhisattva in my view at All thank you very much it must be it Must be understood very carefully Well i hope you feel better well thank You i really appreciate you letting me Talk All right it’s been a pleasure man take Care east of the rockies you’re on there With Father malachi martin hi hey good Morning art good morning sir where are You This is lance a fifth time caller from Park hills missouri all right Uh i’d like to ask your question your Guest a question sure Is it possible for a person to be a Lycanthrope and not be Evil um yes it is possible Within the framework of your question i Must say yes It is possible yes it is possible In other words can lycanthropy be kind Of a gift Yes it can be and like everything else Can have a good purpose or an evil Purpose father would you get a little

Bit away from the phone for me sorry I’m sorry pardon me it’s all right i Haven’t spoken with A man with this outlook for quite a While i got excited Well uh let me understand because i Don’t understand what he just said So so would you explain lycanthropy to Art Well uh why can’t you read the the Definition you’ll find most Dictionaries is the delusion a person Suffers That they believe that they’re either a Wolf or a werewolf That’s you not by that definition Uh let’s see i don’t know how to Describe it in my terms uh Well do the best you can all right tell Us what you think you are What you feel well it’s mostly in dreams I don’t I don’t believe uh i don’t believe in Werewolves in like the real World or anything yeah but i’ve had like Cancer pee in my dreams And well that was just a question i came Up with while i was listening to your Show I’m glad you did um it’s it’s not Necessarily evil But it’s it’s it would be interesting to To find out why you have Like anthropic dreams that really would

Do you want to know caller uh yes If he can answer that how does he how Does he find out father Uh he must pray And him you see there’s the the this But it can be generational In the sense that it can come from Um from factors which he inherits With his flesh and bones Because accompanying that there’s An ancestral influence and that’s Something which i can’t At this distance i can’t uh perform you Know Okay just just make something clear i Don’t dream of ripping people’s throats Out or anything i know you don’t i know You don’t It’s mainly being a wolf with other Wolves down in the wilderness type Dreams that’s right Uh sometimes if i do take that half State form Uh those dreams it seems like uh instead Of killing people i’m Saving people’s lives like i’ve had a Lot of dreams recently Of saving people from fires well that’s The good that’s the good version of us Which you share That’s why i say it can be good and it Can be evil Um but i’d want to know much more about You sir so you don’t you don’t hear a

Lot of Of this sort of thing then father no he There’s a certain quantum i’ve come Across it In a certain amount of people it’s a It’s a minority as far as i’m My experience goes but as i’ve heard About it and Talked with them but i’ve always had to Inquire about their families There’s a generational aspect to this Which must be thought out especially if It’s As a negative effect when it has a Positive effect as it has in this man’s As this man just said then I still would inquire about it because I’d be very curious It’s a rare um Trait i’m learning a lot tonight Uh west of the rockies you’re on the air With father malachi and martin hi Hello oh it’s me oh hi yes hi where Where are you Um san francisco okay and my name is An honor to speak with both of you thank You um I had a my question for father martin Is that i needed some advice on how to Respond to My five-year-old daughter’s question and Uh Namely she came to me and asked me with A quite a serious and inquisitive tone

Um and said mom why when i’m alone i Feel like there’s someone Watching me and additionally before she Even asked me the question I just intuitively knew that she was Going to ask me that specific question And maybe i could attribute this to the Fact that i’m also Quite sensitive and i’ve had episodes Where i’ve Been intuitive or i’m not psychic Whatever you want to name it And i also have felt that i have been Watched or i feel someone’s watching me And And in particularly i felt it strongly When um during When my sister had passed away and it Was during the traumatic time in my life And what i did during those times is Just Naturally i just kind of called that to Um to God you know to jesus and and i felt at Ease Now i don’t think that my daughter is Experiencing the same thing as i am And when she asked me this question i Didn’t want to put words in her mouth And i was kind of like Caught off guard and i just told her to Describe to me What it is that she was feeling was this Uh was this

An animal was it a person and she kind Of like Tried to grasp her words and she thought And she goes well I think it could be my garden angel and That says well You know your garden angel is there to Protect you and it’s there to guide you And it’s it’s A what do you feel what does it does it Talk to you Because no i just feel like i i have to Run And i’m afraid i have to run yeah that’s Not necessarily Good no no no and then what What has happened i guess um we’re going Through some traumatic times uh Uh there’s in the family yes there’s Been an illness With an aunt and also my brother has Just been Diagnosed with cancer and so i guess i Thought maybe she’s just feeling all the Stresses of what’s going on But she has been Coming into sleep in my bed uh um after She You know she’s five years old um after a Long period of time and i thought I could tell she’s probably stressed About something and i don’t know if i Should take this seriously or if it’s Just a fluke or

Or could she possibly be feeling because She’s very sensitive and she’s extremely Bright Very artistic okay ma’am hold on a Moment i don’t know what you think god Um can we talk uh yes i i i Have time uh we do um i would guess Father that uh if this child is feeling Something she feels she has to run from That doesn’t sound like a guardian angel To me no it doesn’t It doesn’t sound she’s frightened but The the only way To approach her in this matter would be To get her confidence Yes how would i go about doing that well I think you’d want Closer bodily association with her Like lying in bed together yes uh eating Together And then talking about objective things Together And describing things or if you come Across some flowers Say what you feel about those flowers And get it to come out like that slowly But surely Um then does she say any prayers Oh yes um we’re catholic and we go to Church and we say our prayers at night I’ll tell you I’d like to send you something for that Child The chaplain of saint michael

But that’s the rather difficult of the Present room because i haven’t got an Address And um i don’t want you to be Broadcasting your address over the air Why don’t we do it the other way around Father and give her a way to contact you Yes yeah well the westeros would be my Address my My address for the radio is 217 east 66th Street did you say 217 e yes 66 66th street new york new york one zero Zero two one And um when you write I want to give you a nickname teresa Teresa Teresa yes so say i am the person you Call teresa Okay and i’ll know who we’re talking About okay all right Great thank you so much i just feel so Much at ease now God bless you take care and thank you Very much for the call um Repeat your address uh good and slowly Father because i will 217. 217 East 66th street New york new york one Zero zero two one good All right uh first time caller line You’re on the air with father Malachi martin oh it’s an honor art

Thank you Sure father malakai years ago in my Family We met a man that was A healer and he did he said he did it he Didn’t do the healing but god did And he healed me so of ulcers so I knew and it happened instantaneously Then my mother got cancer real real bad Tumors everywhere had five operations She was in bed and i went and she was Suffering terrible with pain And i went to her home and called him What to do How to help her and he asked me If i would let him transfer Her pain and to my legs So she wouldn’t have to suffer so badly Well it’s my mother i wanted to help her I loved her And i said yes without thinking I thought i was healthy i thought well Yeah it would go right away You know it wouldn’t i wouldn’t have to Keep it Never thought of that well it’s 15 years And i got the pain my mother of course Died And she died of the cancer yes yes sir She did She she got more tumors after that and They had to give her morphine and then She passed away And um all right you have really struck

An Interesting question we’re at the bottom Of the hour man so we’re gonna have to Uh Ago but that’s is she is she an empath Is that is what she said possible Oh yes oh yes yes and then even uh her Mother passes away and she For life still has the has the suffering Yes Actual father malachi martin the young Lady who called or not so young have we Lost the contact with Uh well not in the sense that she’s Still listening i think She gave us her story she asked to Receive that pain And she uh has had it now all her life How is that possible to transfer in that Way pain And what can she do well the first Comment to make upon us Is a very dangerous thing to do and um The man she spoke to it’s not he who Transferred the pain Um it’s god but you cannot Tempt god why would god do why would god Do that because this is an abuse You don’t uh you don’t um He was wrong that man is suggesting It didn’t say for a mother anyway uh Seriously clearly but i i don’t Understand why you say it is an abuse in Other words

This is something she did out of love i Know But it’s it was misdirected love Just directed by this particular healer Um And if you’re not supposed to do that You’re supposed to accept from god And heal if you can by other means but Not by By um that sort of substitution Offering up of yourself yeah it’s not It’s not it’s Always been condemned by christianity From the very start Because the ancient healers uh Pre-christian And then the at the same time early in Early christianity the roman and greek Healers Used to practice this sort of uh Healing and um substitute healing as These We call it from the books and it’s Always been condemned by christianity as Wrong Just wrong because you you you don’t Choose these things Um it’s one thing to sacrifice your life For somebody else to save their life When they’re drowning or they’re being Bitten by a mad dog or Whatever or killed by somebody cruel and You you literally Be killed in their place that’s why

Number one but in the matter of disease And um you there you’re fiddling with God’s providence in a way which is not Not holy not good christianity is always Condemned Substitute healing all right uh how what What does she do now Ah what she does is she gets a holy Priest A holy man to pray over and give her a Healing process There’s no question of any demonic Influence here it’s simply a mistake she Made and she was punished for it Uh she can merit enough a lot but a good Priesthood teacher how to Merit grace from god in this matter you See father i don’t understand that Um i know she said she made a mistake And she was punished for it uh She took on the pain of her mother or Wished to Out of nothing but pure love i know i Know but she was punished for it why Would Why would a fair Fair god punish i know art i see your Difficulty it’s just that we find out That that’s what happens It’s all the energy and something that Shouldn’t be done Okay and i i in my Very christian instinct my question Anything goes against us

I know it’s always been condemned it’s Not the way to go Why well the bigger problem is why God allows other things like the birth Of babies with her Coke addicted and have aids and they did Nothing except their parents Yes you know it’s one of these mysteries Of evil I don’t know art i have no answer to That question i wish i had but i haven’t All right what about this one uh father Martin i’m a catholic I respect you greatly but you said Something that was a bit disquieting Yeah an earlier caller identified him Herself As not only someone who practices wicca But she said that she had left the Catholic church You said that was okay what she was Doing was Okay as long as she honored christ Correct me if i’m wrong Or please clarify what you meant how can It be okay that she left the true church For a pale Imitation well i don’t think she left The true church That’s the point uh From what she was saying seems to me That she was deserting the organization As such But if she honors christ and honors his

Mother And prays and is a good person morally She is no more left the church than i Have but what she’s talking about is the Organization which she found abhorrent For some reason rather And of course it’s not if she had said To me no i practiced wicca And um i worship the devil do i worship Idols or I worship this world and uh no i don’t Have any belief or Or attachment to the lord jesus or to as You call him or the virgin mary or the Angels That’ll be a different story but You can’t say you’ve left the church When you honor these people And when you live a moral life She has some reason for saying that i Know so many people out who will tell me I absolutely hate the catholic church’s Organization it’s clergy it’s bishops It’s garbage And then i find that they’re very good People it’s just that Something bad hit them they were Maltreated Or unjustly treated or they were Scandalized And but they’re still within the church Of christ he still loves them They belong to him still they don’t have To be in the organization to be with him

Not absolutely they should be if Through some accident personal accidents And they Exit from the formal connection with the Organization they still belong to christ Um on my first time caller line you’re On the air with uh Father malachi martin hi hello art does Keith from actually oklahoma Yes sir you’re gonna have to speak up Good and loud keith get into that phone And yell at us I’m sorry this is not a stone gene just Portable all right go right ahead Um listen i’ve tried to get through to Follow my call Many times i have many questions I am an atheist i am not a non-believer Yes i am not a bad person i teach my son Right from wrong but i have many Questions Number one i have a mentally Brother Yes who has no understanding of right And wrong Who has no understanding of god and evil Where he is where is his place in Immortality Where’s his place how old is he He right now is about 31. uh Is he viable can he work and not really So somebody must take care of it yes my Mother and father take care of him I know and when they go somebody else

Must take care of him Well his place is i suppose takes the Place of that They asked christ about somebody Similarly afflicted In the gospel he said that such a person Is the best uh is one example of The way god let things happen in this World And the people said well is it because Of his father or his mother but he’s so Punished He said no no no it’s to manifest The power of god uh It’s a difficult it’s a difficult thing To accept But he has a place in the scheme of more Of of salvation Okay father i’m also a surgical nurse Yes and you you would not believe the Horrors we see coming in with young Children that have been abused I can believe it i mean i actually saw a Two-year-old That the father had taken the child and Actually broken his Back over its knee you know how he How do you explain that i mean well you Don’t do a thing called evil There’s a thing called evil in this World and Evil runs rampant in certain families And the suffering and the pain and the Horrible

Experiences trust on the weak and the Helpless It has only served always to drive me Into the arms of my lord Jesus and god I know it exists and i want to escape it And i hope never to indulge in it or Fall into it And i hope to cure people practicing you But that it’s there Is a fact of life that’s the world There’s a long story behind that A long long cosmic story which you know Probably as well as i could explain this But it’s the existence of evil I really don’t know but i mean you know It’s just somehow you say Uh who’s looking out for these children I mean They can’t help themselves they don’t do Something to deserve that They know they did nothing to develop it At all all you can do All you can do is well if you can Restore them physically that’s one thing You can do But if like a little child with his back Broken i’m sure it died Yesterday um but then At that stage your faith must enter Because When i have come across children like That For instance i’ll give you an example if

It doesn’t shock everybody listening I’ve had to i had access to a child who Had been sodomized A little girl Yeah and she was just a year and a half Almost two years old But her shoes had been baptized of Course Um what i do is i associate those Sufferings because she suffered I associate her sufferings with the Sufferings of my lord jesus who died for All sinners In the hope that her sufferings can be Turned to Good use by christ himself that’s the Only and And i i also pray to little babies like That I have a whole list of them by the way Which i recite every day That’s sad in itself it’s very sad the Only thing is that This life is sad in several aspects And we can’t let that dominate because We have a glorious Savior and we have a glorious god And that he has allowed evil is one of The biggest Mysteries we have to face i agree with That Yeah one more key question what is it All right it’s something i proposed to To actually my priest in town he could

Not answer it for me we say that uh In heaven yeah there’s no sorrow there’s No sickness No there’s only everlasting happiness And love Yeah let’s say for example take art for Example We all know how how close he is to his Mother how much he loves his mother I tell you yes yes let’s say he gets to Heaven Yes and for some reason it’s just an Example His mother isn’t there yes how do you Explain that how do you account for that I mean how do you how can you have Happiness Well if the people are your lover not Around you well The happiness in heaven first of all Doesn’t spring from the people around You it springs from god And number two i i really will be very Surprised about belle’s mummy isn’t There No i know i was just i really would be It is I really mean that no i understand i Would decision Look it’s more likely that you’ll be Missing me no no no No no we won’t be we’re going to make Sure that you come upstairs with us all But the the the point is that when you

Get to heaven when you are in god’s Presence You are absorbed in him and any any Body or anything and not absorbed in him Once this cosmos has passed away Uh fades out of your existence fades out Of your memory fades out of life So everything down here doesn’t count Well it does count because it’s down Here that i work out my salvation It counts oh yes it counts my goodness And that’s one of the big if i could say It i don’t want to be Trumpeting this as triumphantly or Invidiously but one of the biggest Differences between The early protestants at least and Catholics was this that As you know luther for instance would Say that you can do nothing to save Yourself You’re justified by faith alone whereas Catholics have always said no no you’re Married You can merit punishment you can marry Heaven And similarly i must tell you sir That if i were in your place in this in The surgical wards I would have uh i would have a little Baby family of about 3 000 Already that i would have baptized With water or at least baptized Somewhere rather and that i would have

Prayed to said their sufferings would be United with the sufferings of my lord Jesus because that’s the way i can save Souls Well i’m curious about something caller You uh advertised yourself as an atheist When you first called Yes sir um i understand an agnostic i Understand somebody who has not been Able to quite make the leap of faith Necessary To be one with god but i don’t Understand An atheist that’s somebody uh by Definition who believes there is no such Thing as god is that correct Yes sir i do not believe in god i do not Believe In the devil if you don’t believe in one You can’t believe in the other that’s Right You know you’re not a devil washer just Because you’re an atheist Right now i’m a good person i would Treat my son Right and wrong but in the old saying in Missouri I am a show me person yeah and i I just can’t quite quite grasp the Concept of faith you know i I just can’t quite grasp it it’s like You know the old Coin trick behind the ear we say where’d It go

I’ve got it you know i don’t believe in Magic i don’t believe in faith I wish i could i mean i am envious of People Who believe in everlasting life i’ll Tell you something Yes sir yeah i’ll tell you something we Said it to somebody earlier who was on With arthur myself If i would like to love you it’s the Beginning of love And if i would like to believe it’s the Beginning of belief because otherwise You’d say i don’t give a damn about it Do you understand what i’m saying yes Sir so there’s there’s something there And Look um i don’t know your personal life And probably god will never give us the Chance of Of consorting with and revealing each Other to each other But um he has a plan for you Because you’re a good man yes sir and You’re doing a good duty And he will reveal himself to you in his Own way It won’t be probably the way he reveals Himself to art bell or to me Or to ask wife or us another whatever it Is But you have found god already You’re not calling him god and i’ll be Praying for you

Thank you all right thank you very much Uh for the call Um so Even somebody who would say he is an Atheist Uh is not lost oh no oh no Not like that no no the soul is too Valuable Now the only person persons that Seem to me to be lost i i stress the Fact that seems to me art Is the perfectly possessed because That’s a total renunciation But a total renunciation of are Formal i mean it’s done deliberately What about a devil worshiper Well if he really worships the devil He’s possessed Perfectly possessed you can’t worship The devil Really worship him as the prince has Everything for you i thought of a uh I thought of as i listen to you describe A perfectly possessed person as someone Who Would not so actively Uh be engaged in worship of the devil’s Specifically but might have cut a deal Well once they cut a deal there’s an act Of worship Implied and usually takes place All right usually takes place east of The rockies you’re on the air with Father malachi martin hello

Hello are you today all right where are You I’m in austin texas yes sir yeah and um I believe it was you are first of all That was asking why there was such a big Change in the catholic church and i was Just going to suggest that If you think about it there’s probably No other religion anywhere that’s quite As organized as that so if you were Wanting to weaken Something that would be a good place to Hit first wouldn’t it It would he’s quite a lot And uh for the father there i wondered Has he encountered any things that are Left from before There were i guess you’d have to say Heaven and hell were separate I don’t i don’t really don’t understand The question fully please think Things that were around before there was A world Before there was a world yeah uh well The the lucifer and satan And the other devils that we Deal with today existed before there was A world Anything besides them yes Yes a whole lot of stuff for which we Have no human names Oh now there’s an answer i did not Expect yeah It’s very hard there’s no there’s no

Name We have no human names because we have No Physical images so we can’t have Human knowledge of it it’s it’s very Hard to explain this And see it it it It does belong to the dimensional Area of life but not quite the Tri-dimension Area that we know see if If if it doesn’t if it doesn’t bore you Too much here’s the idea that The universe as we have it today is a Reconstructed universe Oh look this is uh i’m going to ask Both of you to hold on and we’ll pick up On this after the top of the hour Okay uh this is too good to let go so Can everybody hold on Sure certainly all right good uh both of You then Back now uh to father malachi martin in Manhattan father how are you holding up Fine could not be better art all right This was one of the most Interesting questions uh or answers to a Question i’ve Heard caller are you there yes i am all Right Uh the question was what was on earth If anything before man uh father you Said Uh that satan and uh his disciples were

Here But you said there were others as well Yes the The i take it out that the phrase you Use just now On earth is just Refers to the The tri-dimensional existence that we Know Yes your senses yes sir um okay Now the the what in what impedes our Minds Understanding the answer to daniel’s Question Daniel from austin’s question is the Fact that Our minds and our education Has been geared as it were Uh programmed on the idea of evolution Darwin’s evolution the darwinian idea Of evolution and It’s of course it’s a mythical idea and There’s nothing to do with reality And doesn’t explain reality um But it does it’s in our minds and it Blocks our intelligence if you read And i may seem to be rambling art but I’m not really If you read the first 12 chapters of Genesis Particularly the first six or seven of Them You will find that interlaced With the names and supposedly historical

References There is there are there are phrases and Uh sentences Which um suppose Uh the existence of beings For which we have no names they’re Called the sons of men and the sons of God The banay elohim as they call it in in Hebrew And uh the daughters of men etc And the giants that lived in those days You find all this And the old javis writer the old writers Composing putting this bible together in The 9th century bc From the records they had were doing Their best to make a coherent statement And all they could do was gather Testimony The what i was referring to was this That it would seem uh it would take a Long time to explain it though It would seem that the universe as we Know it today you and i and daniel And the rest of us is a reconstruction Of a universe that was almost destroyed By the first phase of god’s creation Namely the angelic world And the the the very form of our bodies The very form of our bodies is an ad hoc Restoration by god Um and we won’t have this sort of a body When we’re in heaven

We will have our bodies but not this Part of our body Now the reconstruction Implies that The revolt of lucifer and the angels That went with him the bible says One-third But you know the bible’s numbers are Just Numerically interesting It says they revolted And they almost destroyed the first Handiwork Of god and there was a restoration In view of the coming of christ Later on much later on Um now What existed before that or was Destroyed by this Terrible war this terrible revolt By the first creatures that came from God’s hands Uh when we call angels angel itself is a Is an ad hoc name as we say doesn’t There’s nothing specific about it At all um and it’s very hard to be Specific about an angel But anyway The beings that existed And the forms they took we have no Human words for it Those chapters of genesis the early Chapters they Tried to fix names like the sons of god

The banay elohim And uh The daughters of men and the sons of god And the giants etc They’re all talk names they also were at A loss because They we would not recognize them Uh as human in our sense the word Because what is human for us Is uh something with legs and arms and a Belly and genitals And head and arms and exiting from the Birth canal of a woman But then what we’re left with And where we can track it but it’s a Difficult and a long tracking process Is this that there is this middle Plateau Which is the remnant of the old original Creation created material cosmos And that uh on that plateau lucifer and His crowd Still function and will until the last Day of his cosmos when it’s all Blown away by the breath of christ’s Mouth And only heaven and hell exist Now that may not be much of an Explanation but at least just to start It’s the first level of an expression Or explanation of what i meant help you Out caller I was wondering if he had very much Problem dealing with those type of

Entities that are leftovers Um if i stay with my protection No if i step outside my protection Yes i have what can be literally called A hell of an amount of trouble okay Uh wild card line you’re on the air with Father malachi martin hello Good morning good morning where are you Sir my name is james i’m from el paso Texas El paso yes sir um i Uh myself have been uh practicing wicca For a number of years Yeah and uh and growing up i was around Many people who had uh i guess in one Way or another Stepped into the occult you know my Mother was into astrology uh my father Was part of the russians back in the 70s Yes And uh my wife uh was featured in a book Called something in the blood it was About Vampiric lifestyles and in dealing with All that I uh found out on the market you know i Read quite a bit And i found a void in books that deal With Occult crimes and so i am putting Together a manuscript on a book and i’ve Researched occult crimes uh Quite exhaustingly and i have a question For you uh

Father um i found that many of the People Who do commit these horrid Were tormented as children you know were Probably uh Picked on in school abusive parents That’s right You’re right there do you feel that Perhaps uh in your opinion the devil or Demons have Uh been pushing at them since they were Children or is this something that the Parents have pushed on and they have Simply found an opening to grasp the Soul of these people The the uh the analysis The only analysis for the moment that Satisfies me Satisfies what i have found anyway is as Follows Um you see if i if you abuse a child The child can take it one way or another Now supposing the child is say four or Five Something like that uh Or even six but anyway in that young age Out of infancy but not quite in boyhood Or youthhood If they take it badly They can fall under the influence of The demon if they take it well Which they can they don’t And what what’s what’s the deciding Factor

Their free will and That’s that’s where the there’s an Initial Act of will I think that everybody who comes into Existence in this world Um sheer infancy is one thing Where you simply you your mother is your World that progress Or everything for you and and you’re Just that but once you start getting Any any appreciation Of the world outside you as outside you There comes a moment some stark personal Moment All by yourself when you make a decision And i think you make a decision between Light and darkness There’s a there’s a man called jean-paul Richter a german writer he’s dead now But he said that he was born in the Black forest his father was a woodcutter And they lived in a small hut and um They they they there was a pile of Manure outside their door always because Their father Had horses to drag the lumber and um He went out one morning when he was two And a half three About about two and a half or three Years and He stood and climbed on top of the Manure just to look out Because it was easy to climb and he

Heard the Crowing and he saw the first rays of Sunlight over the tops of the pine trees And he heard himself say to himself it’s Been i mean I am an eye i am i i’m a self i am me That’s sort of a moment of choice well i Think That once you exercise free will Um i’m sorry if i held the receiver Badly out I was about to talk to you about that Yeah i’m sorry about that lad The um i’ve just corrected it when i get Excited The point is that you can make a choice At that early age Which puts you within the realm of the Demon or you can make a choice to put You in the realm of the angels And why you make that choice i do not Know I do not know the factors i do not know I think Free will is the most extraordinary gift And the most dangerous gift we have do You feel that it is Easier for the demons or however you Choose to Embody them to influence children who Have Lived abused life yes addictive Because no matter how lovely a child is No matter

How pure it’s born but how unsullied its Mind and will are it still has What christians call original sin that Is the lack of grace And once tempted to hit back At somebody hurting you really tempted To do so Puts you within the realm of the demon But it’s a it’s it’s a very it’s It’s more problematic than the latency Period which is problematic in itself Uh that early period between Uh birth After installment birth and then early Infancy It’s um it hasn’t been studied by church Men intelligently Um and it must be finally studied One more quick question father how does The Uh catholic church deal with a lot of The Uh crimes going on out there i’ve Noticed even you know with my wife she Gets Uh you know pen pals that write to her Through the book and there’s quite a Many children out there falling into the Fantasy vampire you know Who stays there yeah the difficulty Today in america My friend it’s terribly hard to say how The church should behave or Used to behave because

Belief in the devil belief in positive Evil Has fallen through the roofs in the Catholic church today amongst the clergy And a lot of bishops simply Don’t believe in the devil don’t believe In positive evil Everybody is good according to them and There’s no such thing as evil really Devil no devils no hell no god is Hell no um god is too good And it’s uh a goody goody theology This mother has got to be the fifth time Tonight i’ve heard Vampirism mentioned yes i know i know i Know because It is a one spreading evil it is still Spreading It’s a new thing and it’s part of the Lust for blood And there is a vampirism As it is practiced today is a means Of worship of satan when it’s really Practiced Um all right blood murder Murder yes uh with malice and Forethought Mortal sin yes yes certainly certainly Um when the state any state Executes somebody for the crime of Murder yes Uh what is that well I don’t know what their motives are it All depends what our motivation is

I know that if i were to approve of Capital punishment For a person who is an established Murderer Or murderess that There is the question of justice i take Your life Deliberately and maliciously knowingly I must restitute just as if i steal a Hundred dollars of yours the judge is Going to say to me Give him back his hundred dollars and Add a fine to it but give him back his You must make restitution all right Father we’re going to pick up on this uh We’ll be right back father are you there Of course i am all right good Um well then if murder is a mortal sin Then when the state um takes a life It is something else Yes it is because the motivation the Intention is what makes the difference And the state has felt it is empowered To inflict this loss of life As a punishment for an unjust Action on my part if i’m the person Involved As to the justification of that That’s something else art which has Engaged a long debate for a long time About various things What to do about it if i do take Somebody’s life Shouldn’t i be deprived of my life this

Is the argument of the People in charge in favor of capital Punishment Yes the others say no no no the Best punishment is life Without parole in prison But the others respond no i’m sorry you Still are alive You don’t deserve to be alive you’ve Killed You’ve deprived somebody of their life And the debate goes on All right um call us toll free at Two five 1-800-618-8255 desert calgary We’re gonna have to start all over again The only thing we don’t let you do on This program is give your last name Oh i’m sorry uh so let’s begin again Garrett From the mojave desert that’s the way to Do it alrighty Good morning my friends uh father you Had a question Yes um i think today I think a lot of our trouble is we’re Forget who we are And what we’re striving towards Um i wondered if you had heard if had Any comment on the 30 something Volumes the vatican has recently Released And is held back since the 30s from Louisa picaretta Called the books of heaven yes i’ve i

Haven’t read them all I’ve read a lot of luis picareta what Revelations and impact do you think they Might have on the ongoing changes in the Church and And for us well the It’s very voluminous you know it’s basic Catholic uh doctrine there’s no doubt About that What difference it will make it depends On who practices and if It’s his practice if it’s put because She has a definite program Uh there is a definite program involved In in her writings Uh and the writings are honored by Everybody cardinals and bishops and Priests and nuns and people Um i don’t know what the effect of it is Going to be a pardon me I’ve already called uh that called a Guidebook for the future church Yes that’s a difficult thing to it is Called that by a lot of people but If she doesn’t face uh Not quite formulate the problems that we Have today Presumably those will be the problems of Tomorrow the main problem being the Total disintegration of the organization The the pope bishop priest None diocese that structure Is dictating is obsolete And it’s not reviving it’s it’s

The the structure of the church is is up For grabs And she doesn’t touch on that she does Talk about the Spirits of the church and she does talk About the call to holiness And the reasons for striving for Holiness And the rules for it but the precise Difficulty we’re passing through She doesn’t deal with is it true that She lived on the eucharist for 60 some Years Yeah yes this without eating any food Yes this is verified but she’s not the First one jerez of connoisseurs was the Same thing and the nazis certified that Because they didn’t believe it and they They they isolated her And she lived right through it all with The same food only just the host The stated host so luis picareta But that’s it’s not the first time in History and it won’t be the last Yes all right thank you father very Inspiring Yes all right thank you very much caller And uh take care This is the end of side one please leave The cassette exactly where it is Good morning gentlemen morning um i have A couple questions uh For um for uh father malachi Uh the first one is is um

I’m a christian and um but i i just I i love art bill and uh We shared that common love there and so Many people think that That uh they’re contradictory to one Another like i’m not saying So much large philosophies are just like Mine like um i’m not saying there are Aliens i haven’t seen any i I know are seeing a couple of somethings Now but uh i haven’t even been that Lucky but I still hold open the possibility that They’re there and why Is that contradictory with christianity By so many people’s standards Do you do you have any idea i i better Formulate that question Well i i can formulate it in other words Why Is it so contradictory to um Uh christian theology that there may be Others i mean uh here we’re discovering Uh some form of life Microbial albeit at mars there may be Life on jupiter life is beginning to Look to be very common Uh not not uncommon uh and yet the Concept is rejected Uh by fundamentalist christians Well they shouldn’t reject it I don’t think they should reject any Factual evidence In our cosmos they should not reject

This And i don’t think my church Officially is guilty of that um In fact they seem to be leaning the Other way Really too much in in certain areas But no i nobody should reject any sign Of life Yeah i agree with you i’m keith in Columbia missouri too i’m sorry i forgot That but my other question is um Uh father malachi uh Um i’ve recently been doing this bible Study that uh Comes up with the uh catholic church As being the antichrist yes and i’m sure You’ve heard these questions My first introduction to when i was done In missouri was that somebody told me That The pope was the red lady of the Mediterranean That’s uh we’re plotting the downfall of All the nations Uh well there’s there’s a bunch of Things to think about other than that uh Um for one for for just a couple of Simple Fast things um The changing from the sabbath day from Saturday to sunday is like a big one That just Really jumps out at me um

And the changing of the fourth Commandment from remember the seventh Day sabbath day To just remember the sense day are you a Seventh day adventist Uh i went to the church a couple of Times and uh yeah and i kind of liked it It’s appealing it is appealing but i’ll Tell you what happened to me uh Is i had a dream one night that the Preacher came to my house And was uh gonna talk to me and the wife And son he said uh Pardon me why go in the other room and Get ready when he come back he had this Thing around his neck And that was all he had on oh boy he was Nude And it was just in a dream but i was Also just studying some of uh Daniel’s dreams and um and uh Interpretations and i was like uh Man is god trying to tell me something So i never went back but recently i Thought maybe god was telling me Everything you see with this guy’s Everything you get you know that he’s Not hiding nothing and Someone go back again yeah as i say it Passed Because god will give you direction There’s no doubt about that yeah I sure appreciate it and uh uh archie Have a great show

Thank you my friend uh take care uh Father i have a question for you Um it concerns the vatican’s Intense almost obsessive interest with Astronomy yes um in arizona Uh the vatican uh Despite um environmental obstacles that Would not Normally be overcome by anybody else In conjunction with the uh university of Arizona It muscled its way onto mount graham Yes and uh constructed a an observatory Yeah uh can you uh enlighten me at all As to why they have such an obsessive Interest In astronomy Yes i can in general terms of art The reason is this they’ve always had This by the way They’ve always had an observatory not Always it’s based from about the 9th Century a d But there’s intense interest now in Astronomy Because of the contents Of some of the secret revelations They claim were made in this century About the near future involving Stars involving astronomical Data it’s about as general statement as I would be allowed make Oh i think i can read that one quite Well okay

I’m sure you cannot but There definitely is an interest up Because they’re looking for The evidence they need to decide that Certain things must be done i understand Uh and i appreciate the answer too Wildcard line you’re on here with father Malachi martin hello Hi my name is nick i’m in albuquerque hi Nick Uh i had a question for uh Polar malachi yeah uh You know i’ve always been really Intrigued with uh With this passage in genesis It’s uh genesis 6 4 where they make Reference to the To the nephilim yes and in the bible it Says that they uh Uh they took notice of the uh The daughters of the earth that’s right And that Uh they then proceeded to have Intercourse And and then they gave birth to uh The giants to giants and Uh you know that I i was wondering exactly who the Nephilim Are and also if uh I imagine they’re they’re entities or Or uh it refers to them as a true sons Of God they they

Make they we touched on this in an Earlier hour with Another caller yes and you probably Heard that part of it yes It’s um again it’s The analysis of what really happened in The beginning Right in the beginning and as i Said to art and the caller then we have No names You see look when you and i want to Describe something even when we talk About say The men from mars or these green men Landing in roswell new mexico In 1947 we always configure them With legs and arms and nose and eyes Some sort of Body like ours you know right we we’re Extremely limited Actually in what we can imagine because We have either got men human beings or We’ve got animals Right but The difficulty is that there does seem To be Suggestive evidence that before The human race people discard This particular patch of the cosmos Um there were other beings Um not human No but we we have no faces we have no We have no way of describing their Appearance we have no names for them

We we can’t configure them physically You know what i mean Yeah well you know the difficulty and Then it’s helium is one of the All the mysterious and the the elohim The sons of god They’re all very very shadowy figures And that’s in those First chapters of genesis right well if You know if god Uh populated this planet with with Humans Uh is there the possibility that uh Satan or lucifer Populated other planets with with Their concept and uh and Could they possibly be the uh The uh aliens were Were encountering at this time yes the The any information we have which is Very sparse Anyway any evidence we have nick about This Restricts um living Uh beings to The this galaxy and this particular Planet in this galaxy actually so But that doesn’t mean that that’s Complete but as far as we know And then as regards the beings we think We’re now The ufos as we call them uh And i’m not saying that derisively like

The green men from mars or something Like that i’m saying it But they i think that so far the Evidence is that it’s Uh it’s demonic in origin I see now the there’s one element which Is certain it is that the function of The original Angels created like that they were the First wave of creation It was to serve and to govern Uh the cosmos of man right but That went awry so so basically the Nephelium are the Fallen angels the followers of lucifer We don’t quite Know nick i i can’t say that i wish i Could give you enough snap we don’t Know all right let me try and phrase it This way father uh if Uh mount graham were to suddenly detect Something um some sort of ship Some sort of something headed uh toward Earth Uh that was unambiguously A craft not of earth yeah um They would assume that automatically Then to be Demonic uh yes Although yes It’s it’s very hard yeah that’s a hard Question to answer ask it really is I’d be going beyond the evidence if i Said yes or no to that

It’s a difficult thing to answer um It’s a very difficult thing to answer i Don’t know art I must confess to you i don’t know i Wish i did but i don’t Maybe it’s one of those things that uh It is better not to know Well at the moment yes The only word we have on it is Take care of things on this earth don’t Worry about what Happens on other planets but I i uh it’s amazing isn’t it Let’s all reflect on it for a moment It’s amazing how the interest This little machine on the martian Landscape has aroused Yes it’s amazing People who are listening to the Broadcast and seeing that mosaic of Pictures Um so i don’t know what to say about all That To imagine that uh at one time mars was Like water world uh that there was a Planet-wide flood and that it was Covered with water Uh that’s a lot to imagine father It is a lot uh where there was water Where there is water generally there is Life Three and a half billion years ago and Now it’s a dried Up desert of a planet yeah yep it’s very

Very funny You see but i must sort of Show my colors in one sense we do not Know yet And probably we’ll have to wait until Eternity to find out We do not know the extent of the damage Done by the revolt against god We don’t know that the extent of that Damage maybe we’re looking at evidence I sometimes suspect we are but i have no Grounds for proving it It’s quite difficult father we’ve done It again we’re at the end of the program I know it’s ridiculous thought it feels Like one hour i know whose