Art Bell Interviews Malachi Martin 1 of 7

Dr malachi martin ex-jesuit Former exorcist and one-time adviser to Three popes is currently a best-selling Author As a premier investigator of clandestine Politics and unlikely alliances of popes And cardinals His novels offer rare insights into the Men who guide nearly a billion people In faith and broker the destinies of Countries and continents As a member of the vatican intelligence Network I didn’t know they had one under pope John xxiii martin helped Extend the church into iron curtain Countries in 1964 Concerned about the corrupting Influences of power Martin was released from his vows of Poverty and obedience after 25 Years as a jesuit he left rome for new York where he did odd jobs until A guggenheim fellowship fellowship Enabled him to write his first Bestseller Hostage to the devil It was followed by the final conclave Vatican Three popes and the cardinal the keys Of this blood the jesuits and Apparently many others is a very Prolific author Uh to give you some idea of how he is

Reviewed Forbes magazine said no spiritual Journey is complete without a vatican Page turner by malachi martin Uh sacramento b said it is to martin’s Credit that his real Life uh fictional cardinals have flesh Blood and bone Sometimes the heart of a south chicago Ward healer The dallas morning news said in biblical Times they would have called him a Prophet Publishers weekly said it is impossible Not not to be impressed with martin’s Profound knowledge of men Issues in history i could go on And on and on and on for 30 years As a catholic priest dr martin Uh did exorcisms so from new york city Staying up late here is dr malachi Martin doctor welcome to the program hey Good morning How are you oh i am very well and i am So honored to have you here No i’m really privileged to be talking On this vast network It is really universal uh it really is Universal now I heard you describe it from north to South tower oh yes yes yes Uh covers a lot of territory i i’m not My back background uh A doctor is not catholicism i’m not

Catholic my wife is So i’m going to stumble and bumble and i Hope you’ll bear with me I doubt if you could stumble and bumble In anything But anyway we’ll take that as a as a as A As a simple statement um and take this Also as a simple statement Um many years ago many years ago now You can tell me how many the movie the Exorcist uh Came out it was the first of its kind Really uh major movies and uh it’s Scared It scared uh it scared the hell out of Me Be honest with you and as no movie Even with all their horrible little Monsters ever has Since and i’m not sure why It’s not funny it’s very interesting That i find that very curious i really Do Even more than any of the dracula and The frankenstein films Even more than the the the movies with Alien where monsters are popping out of People’s bellies and all sorts of Horrible things And i think the reason is because i Viewed the exorcist As real yes i think so and It did touch on accord the existence of

A demon which Could on occasion inhabit the body of Some other human Of some human being i think that Might be the element and to set also That particular picture was set in in Washington real lifetime washington you Know And you have real live looking Characters Undergoing these horrible contortions And distortions So i suppose it did the the fact is are The fact is That at the back of our consciousness at The back of our consciousness At least in i was going to say in the West but then i I know it’s the same in india same in China same in japan And in latin america at the back of our Consciousness there’s always A fear of the evil one Yes well there may be a reason for that The evil one now let me start there by Asking you is there a difference Yes between possession Uh by the devil and possession by a Demon Yes there is you see the the The the the mythology or the the the Legend Or the doctrine or the teaching Whichever you want to regard it as

It it holds that there is a major Evil spirit called lucifer And there is another one called satan And they are accompanied by or they are Among Many many smaller demons And these do attack And possess human beings in their will And their intellect that’s the general Sort of Picture you get from books and studies And doctrine And teaching about the devil and about Evil and i think That i i what i was saying was that i Think at the edge of our consciousness There’s always the fear that Perhaps indeed there is such a thing we Don’t believe it we catholics do Hold it and christians in general do Hold it But there’s a consciousness there’s some Evil spirit At work it could be in our world and We’re afraid of it And that it can according to the belief In many parts of the world and in many Parts of history of man There is uh there is the possibility of Being possessed Of one’s body being dominated by such an Evil spirit And used for nefarious ends dr Uh the devil is the devil a fallen angel

Is that correct that’s the idea that They are all fallen Angels the idea is that once upon a time One third of the angels of god revolted Against him And were condemned to hell and became Demons What was the purpose of that rebellion The purpose of the rebellion was simply The ambition of one spirit Lucifer the son of the dawn that’s what His name means The light bearer or the son of the dawn Who said I will not serve i will be equal to god And he was opposed by one spirit who Said who Is like unto god and that’s the name of Michael Mikhail who is like unto god And there was this supposedly this huge Battle between the spirits And the demons lost and michael And those fighting for god won And forever the the the fallen angels Those who rebelled Are condemned to hell and condemned to To be evil and to promote evil amongst Human beings How do we human beings fit into The picture it’s almost as though the War is over Human beings yes it is over human beings The teaching

Is that once upon a time god envisaged The world inhabited by men and women and Served by angels but When lucifer and satan and the other Demons Then angels were asked to call Collaborate And cooperate and serve human beings Especially one particular human being Who would be god Namely christ jesus of nazareth They said no we are angels we are Superior to these Material beings we haven’t got their Limitations And we don’t die and we haven’t got Material bodies we are pure spirits So they they they were destined Originally to serve human beings and They refused Doctor when did you become how old were You when you became a priest I was 33 33 And it that was in 1954 And when did you first encounter Uh as a young priest how did you Encounter Anybody who was possessed i know you Have done how many exorcisms have you Done I’ve done thousands of minor exorcisms And about a couple of hundred major ones Major ones uh in duration and In intensity uh are difficult

Very difficult and they are they are far Fewer Than the thousands of exorcisms you do Every year Uh exorcisms against various ailments Like uh For instance a persecution complex Where you’re really being obsessed by by A devil or a demon or alcoholism Or or or or is it the human ills the The list is enormous now i first of all Came across it in cairo That was the first time that i assisted That in exorcism cairo egypt Cairo egypt i was there i originally Started off as an archaeologist And i was an expert in handwriting Ancient handwriting about the time of Abraham That’s about 1700 bc that’s about what 3 000 something years ago and I was but i was roped in one evening Because an exorcism which was taking Place in the poorer quarter of cairo The assistant to the exorcist was always An exorcist and an assistant The assistant had fallen ill and i was Asked to substitute And that was my first experience well it Was my It is my understanding again i’m Operating from total ignorance here Other than the movies that i’ve seen It may be all wrong uh but my

Understanding is the catholic church Does not Lightly undertake to do an exorcism no How does it decide it decides this way It’s All right so somebody comes to the Church authorities and saying look Uh my uncle my brother my wife my sister My whatever it is they are showing very Funny signs And those usually in every good well-run Dial says There’s an exorcist that is a priest Appointed by the local bishop to deal With this So the first thing you do is examine Them get them examined by a doctor And find out are they physically sound There are ailments like la tourette Syndrome Or huntington’s chorea or a simple tumor On the brain which produces Phenomena produces events in a person’s Life That look very like possession but are Not So you must first of all satisfy Yourself there’s nothing physical no Physical basis Then one or two expert psychiatrists Usually people don’t believe in god by The way because they’re They’re skeptical must uh you must Tackle you and find out

Um are you just plain loony or or Is there something they don’t understand They come back with a report saying Well the pattern is normal we can’t Explain it Then the church authorities generally Say okay Let’s try exorcism and in the first 20 minutes believe you me in the first 20 minutes Everybody at an exercise knows as Negative ceremony Knows whether it’s genuine or not it’s Quite clear Uh in the longest or the hardest Exorcisms Uh how long typically might it go on it Can go on For the the the classic one in the United states Was about two and a half years long two And a half years two and a half years Yeah yeah it’s been written up very Recently By a simple reporter who simply Chronicled the entire thing But i’ve existed at once which went on For Oh 17 weeks oh my goodness we measure it In weeks Sometimes it’s only a week sometimes It’s only hours It depends it depends on the tenacity of The demon

In in possession it depends on the Antecedents of the person It depends on so many factors you you Just can’t predict You go into it blind in that sense you Said Uh again you said demon so the majority Of possessions are by Demons that’s right they are all all all True possession is by demons Now see there’s a distinction between Possession and Obsession but obsession is where Somebody is Being bothered continually by princess Cases i have enhanced the present moment Of people who are bothered continually By By appearances of animals with human Faces Bothering them or pressures on them at Night When they want to go to sleep yes And funny faces and funny things Happening them And you finally when you rationalize it All and have the personal exam and Physically and mentally You come to the conclusion there are Objective events taking place And they are being bothered and obsessed By a demon and then you said about Chasing that demon away Of those that have gone past the medical

Doctor And the psychiatrists yes what Percentage Would you say turn out to be actual Cases of possession Uh my experience would say About eighty percent eighty percent Eighty percent Eighty percent then i would then i would Also ask you said Examined by two psychiatrists who do not Necessarily believe in god That’s right in general generally i have Always tried to Uh use the the services and the skills Of psychiatrists who will tell you i’m a Natives you know i i really don’t Believe him practically in god Really so well they’re not influenced Therefore by any prejudice so then there Is a good use for even the atheist Although i must tell you that they every I I’ve only found one or two psychiatrists Who wanted to assist it in exorcism And generally one of them one of them i Wrote about dr hammond He simply gave up all psychiatry He did once he went into the real thing My question was going to be How many um people Uh who thought they were possessed uh Were diagnosed in your opinion Incorrectly by psychiatrists who might

Tend to Because of their own prejudice uh want To claim this uh Apparent malady as uh as their own Territory uh so how many never made it To you because they were incorrectly Diagnosed A very great number especially when we Come down to a thing called Mpd’s it’s a it’s an abbreviation used By psychiatrists For multiple personality disorders that Is You know say let’s take the name hilda And hilda says that She becomes mary in certain locations Then she becomes A joan on other occasions right and she Becomes geraldine on third occasion you Know Multiple personality disorder and for a Long time Mpds were simply analyzed as mpd’s And then under certain circumstances They began to find out that it was much More than that It was a case of demonic possession and That Has to be very carefully distinguished Because you you can make a dreadful Mistake and think a true mpd Is possessed or vice versa that a person Really possessed is an mpd Well then i would ask i guess can a

Person be possessed by More than one entity oh oh yes and the Same demon can possess three people at The same time Oh my it all depends the variation is Tremendous And uh nobody is the Art this is a very dirty Unhealthy inhuman in salubrious Uh wicked And unnatural process and the events That nobody should touch it with a barge Pole Except somebody trained and even then to Be very careful because it’s highly Dangerous For instance if you start any nonsense Real real exorcism and a lot of people Don’t know the difference between that And therapy the difference between that And prayer Or healing prayer deliverance prayer as They call it But if you start something like that and Don’t finish it you’re going to have Trouble for the rest of your life well i Was going to ask you About the danger to yourself and i will Do that when we come back dr Martin stand by we’ll come back to you In a moment back now to Dr malachi martin doctor you there of Course i am good Good do everything fascinated

Uh doctor um Is there now or is there going to be An antichrist There whether there is now Is a question there is going to be an Antichrist and i think the best thing we Can do Is talk about his public appearance Because he may already be in existence For me to say he is in existence would Immediately provoke The questions where is he and what is he Doing yes i want to avoid that Yes but he will be manifest Publicly within a reasonable amount of Time Most people who are 20 something or 30 Something Will come across antichrist in their Life I’m 76 i may not How will we know him We will know him by two main qualities First of all he will arrive at a time When we as a race have What looks like insuperable problems Supposing we have we discover we have Insuperable Really insuperable environmental Problems yeah yes sir Supposing we find we have insuperable Uh uh health problems A disease wasting wasting nation after Nation

That’s the first thing he will have Solutions for those problems He will have wise solutions solutions That are real solutions And number two his the result Of his interfere of his intervention and His The the results of his of his solutions Will be such That people will say you must be god And he will accept that Attribute he will accept that yes he Will accept that that will be Those are the three marks of the Antichrist Well um you’ve already done it to me You’re already giving me chills i’ve Been a talk show host Uh doctor for about in this incarnation Uh 13 years during this program And in the last several years doctor I’ve begun to observe something that i Just Picked a word and i began to call it the Quickening And um the very good word it’s a very It’s a very discerning word you you must Speak from experience Well you must i speak from watching the News Of what man is doing by the day doctor And by this quickening I mean socially i’m i’m watching These horrible things happening uh

Yesterday is just an example Uh in sacramento a man Uh was holed up and uh killed uh his two Children in front of his wife and then In front of his wife killed himself this Kind of Senseless mindless i know unbelievable Behavior socially and it’s not it’s not Isolated My god i know it’s not isolated Politically uh doctor i look around And i see no sense to what what is going On uh we have lost our way We have lost our way there’s no doubt About that could i stick in something at This moment archer could i make a remark You may indeed there is In scripture and in tradition and uh by The way i’m a roman catholic so i have Some I’m not sort of dependent on the bible As protestants are And that’s their choice but there is a Thing called the mystery of iniquity And it’s a it’s a very constant Teaching of the bible and of religious Men and women and it says That evil is allowed from time to time To so dull the senses of men and women And to so disturb the equilibrium of Their minds That they do crazy real crazy mad Bad things and here is the point that Gives me a chill i’m 76

And i noticed that in the last 20 25 Years of my life The incidence of such Disequilibrium the incidence of that Seemed to be much more frequent than When i was younger Yes much more there are much more Shocking things happen And it’s not that we’re getting to know Them no no no the world was connected at That time Communications were slow when i was Young say when i was 25 When i was 20 but we everything all the News got around But we never heard such a plethora of Shocking unbelievably violent Unnatural uh happenings To ordinary people so the mystery of Iniquity Seems to be pressuring and the idea in The teaching about the mystery of Iniquity is that There is a a darkness a new mental Darkness That closes in and makes ordinary people Do the most extraordinary And shocking things well that’s one part Of it a Horrible scary part of it but also you Mentioned the environment Yeah i’ve been monitoring stories lately Doctor um About uh the ozone about deformed

Frogs which are said to be an indicator Species Uh i have had people on from various Disciplines that you may not agree with Who call themselves Uh remote viewers uh to prophets To native americans and frankly They all tell a very similar story With regard to what they think is Immediately in front of us In the next few years I happen to agree with them i happen to Be Have gone further in my thought than Merely agreeing with them I think there is a case of radiation I think that we are being radiated In such a way that it distorts The chemical balance of our system our Mental system And that slowly but surely A vast section of the public Is being dulled doesn’t see what’s Happening Yes doesn’t realize what is being done To them These slowly boiling frog that’s right i Mean the frogs thereby There was one one example of a frog Reported here in all our papers In in north america the frog with one Eye in its head and the other in its Mouth Yes i know the distortion the complete

Ruination of nature i’m afraid i can Tell you more father Um from the north central part of the United states Across to vermont to montreal even in Japan Now yeah uh deformed uh frogs with four To six legs as you pointed out Eyes and throats missing eyes um and i Could go on and on horrible I know horrible deformities something’s Happening Well and then by the way we should also Add things we are not told in public The deformed babies that are born in A section of europe which is also Covered by the Chernobyl explosion but Also simply happening to form Deformations of adults as well as Children And they’re not reported widely doctor a Report two days ago from london Of an abnorm an abnormal amount of Deformed Fetuses in britain uh Britain is experiencing uh more Radiation ultraviolet radiation a result Of uh depletion of the ozone right now Than are we sure sure then by the way There’s a thing because we’re touching a Sacred cow when we touch on it That’s nuclear energy yes sir uh I’m terminally convinced from the

Evidence that that And the the evidence by reputable Scientists these are not crackpots They’re men who have engaged in nobel Prize activities in chemistry and in Physiology And economics and they can point out The effect of radiation on uh The human frame especially on those Parts of the brain That deal with moral and ethical Judgment And it’s so it’s a bit frightening Because it means that the rising Criminality the The the distinct rise in criminality Recidivism uh constant Crime and doing and horrible crimes with No reason at all but Simply cruelty is some deformation of Nature in itself And i’m afraid it’s on the increase not On the decrease Is it reasonable to ask you what when a Human being is possessed by a demon what Is the Purpose of the possession of an Individual The destruction of that individual’s Soul to such a point that It must end up in hell hell being a Place A location an existence which is totally Separate from god the the belief

Is that everybody was created to be Happy forever And god wants everybody to enjoy heaven The joys of heaven the perpetuity of Heaven The peace of heaven and the ecstasy of Heaven The demons excluded from that and barred From it because of their Rebellion i want to make sure that as Many human beings as possible don’t Attain it And that is done by possession and Possession is a funny thing It’s a funny operation it never starts Suddenly You don’t wake up in the morning say gee Where’s that possessed you know It doesn’t happen like that it’s it’s Like any addiction It’s like anything that happens slowly It’s bit by bit This by bit i seed control of my will And my intellect to a demon And one day the possession is complete Is this a fight Uh doctor between an individual’s will And that of the demon Well usually uh to be more accurate is The fight between the will of the Exorcist And the will of the demon well i i guess I meant Before you uh or somebody like yourself

Has met up with this possessed Individual As the process of takeover is underway Is it a fight between the persons Yes yes it is between the person’s will And the demon Intending to possess usually the The the the the tendency of the attempt To possess Is through deception because as i We have in the northeast corner of America uh Since 1975 we’ve had a huge increase in The following type Of possession a young man say 30 Something 40 something a young woman will come and Say look when i was in college When i was the study when i took up Residence as a doctor a lawyer whatever It was I made a pact with the devil i needed Money I needed a position and i i asked him to Help me and he did But he took over my will and my mind now I want to get rid of it how do i get rid Of it Well we have an increase in that Phenomenon which i never told you some Of them don’t even believe in god Some of them are jewish some of them are Buddhists some of them are christian Some of them are

Protestants or catholics there’s no There’s no profile of the possessible Person once you have issued such an Invitation is there any way to go back If it has been taken up then your only Recourse Is exorcism that we know of there may be Other recourses We don’t know of any recourse except That Are there cases in which a possession Is not obvious I would imagine there are many where the Uh the spirit has simply Won and is in uh firm control i would Think that Uh the the people who come to you are Those who are sort of In the middle of a giant battle that’s Right when you find something you know The typical things of somebody throwing Themselves on the ground or cursing and Spitting and Protesting and justificating urinating And all sorts of protest What they’re doing is protesting saying Help me yes help me But really the perfectly possessed we Call them the perfectly possessed Are those are completely at peace and I’ve i’ve known several of the perfectly Possessed and i avoid them like the pest And you you know them only by Almost accidental means sometimes

They’re perfectly normal by the way and They’ve got great business property They’re married they have children and Wives They put down responsible jobs there’s Nothing nothing Wrong there now and again just now and Again It’s as it were a veil is drawn aside And you see somebody you don’t know at All You just don’t know this person this man This woman And there’s a completely alien look a Completely Alien attitude and they breathe Alienation And you know then if you if you have a Nose for it You know then that they’re perfectly Possessed and there’s nothing to be done About the first man i knew like that was Called Beat him john beat him and um It was a frightening experience because I had known him for a year In other words they’re packed their deal Uh They are at they are at peace with and Comfortable with Their deal that’s right they have passed Through the usual satanist rituals too The the three statements rituals the Power of inflicting

Pain the power of hating and Uh the power of burning Fire fire is a is is part of the Satanist And the luciferian development and They’ve passed through all those with Flying colors Uh doctor i want i want to uh circle Back for a second Sure uh you scared me quite well you Said And this was going to be a major Question for you uh this morning Uh i talked to you about the quickening Yeah um I didn’t even get to all the facets it’s Many many things but you said there was A huge Increase in the number of possessions And i was going to ask you that to me That just Adds to the pile that is true there’s More now It’s about since 1975 when i really Started known as Exorcisms in the united states it’s About uh It’s about 800 percent increase In frequency frequency and It’s it’s extraordinary it’s Extraordinary and The one part of the phenomenon is this Art That now for the first time exorcists

And psychiatrists are working closely Together and i work with psychiatrists I do the spiritual side of it and they Do the psychiatric end of it there’s Always a psychiatric preparation And follow-up on after an exorcism you Mentioned that one psychiatrist Simply gave up psychiatry that’s right This i gave him a codename of hammond That’s not his real name But he was very very uh skeptical about It all and Finally i said okay doctor look if you Insist but You must have some protection he wasn’t A catholic by the way but he was a very Honest sincere man i didn’t mean but He he was and once he went through it That was it he would never touch another Another possessed person he would never Touch psychiatry ever again he would Often do something He was a qualified doctor and became an Only md And find himself to that doctor how Frequently do you think Psychiatrists who are treating patients Or what percentage of their patients Might indeed instead of uh suffering Psychiatric problems be suffering some Form of well over 50 Of the cases i have observed well over 50 percent Are really possessed by demons and of

Course nothing can be done about it They’re diagnosed as schizophrenic or as Mpd’s Or as whatever and there’s no sucker for Them There is no sucker or help for them at All When you have done your job and when we Come back from the top of the hour we’ll Talk about what an actual exorcism is Like i guess i want to know but When you have done your job and it’s all Over And the demon leaves yeah Where does that demon go well Let me gently but firmly sort of Put in a correct of their art from the Point of view of an expert They the demon Has been deprived of a place A location a person’s person a person A human person in which to exercise Power Therefore they’re confined to what they Were they originally were which is A hell which is hell they go back merely To suffering because their suffering is Intense and perpetual And non-stop they have had a chance of Exercising Power outside of their tortures and Indeed the evil they inflict is a way of Their Uh getting their own back in somewhere

Or other even though it doesn’t relieve Their pain So they are punished for their failure That’s right they’re punished and that’s Why in the gospel for instance You have this this the evil spirit Saying to jesus No no don’t don’t send us back to hell Send us into these pigs remember the the Swine of garrison Yes and he and they rushed over the Precipice into the water and dropped Themselves They could possess something there’s a Sort of relief A temporary relief in not being Condemned Purely and simply to suffer in hell And therefore they want they want Something to inhabit And christians have said that and saint Paul says and Peter i love the things in the new Testament say that the devil goes around Seeking whom he may devour Like a lion whom he may possess And i must tell you that The increase the enormous increase is About 800 percent over what it used to Be In our small area because it’s only a Small area we do the northeast corner And it is a huge increase and here’s One more thing to say art which may sort

Of Provoke a whole strange question Possession Of the real diabolic kind is Generational Generational aha it’s generational Passed generation It’s passed on by training and It’s a dreadful thing when somebody Comes in who are perfectly respectable Good normal american families and they Have reeled their children To be satanists and to accept possession And they they would unless they’re Stopped unless they stop themselves Pass it on to their children and it’s Been going on for well over 200 years All right doctor hold it right there Relax you’ve got eight or nine minutes I need eight or nine minutes after this And we’ll be right back and when we come Back we will ask you about that and we Will ask you About an actual all right uh let me tell You a little bit about dr malachi Martin for those of you who just joined Uh Malachi martinex jesuit former exorcist One-time advisor to three popes Presently a best-selling author As a premier investigator of clandestine Politics unlikely alliances of popes and Cardinals His novels offer rare insights into the

Men who Guide nearly a billion people in faith And broker the destinies of countries And continents As a member of the vatican intelligence Network under pope John xxiii martin helped extend The church into iron curtain countries In 1964 Concerned about the corrupting Influences of power martin was released From his vows of poverty and obedience After 25 years as a jesuit He left rome for new york where he did Odd jobs until a guggenheim fellowship Enabled him to write his first Bestseller hostage to the devil It was followed by the final conclave Vatican three popes and the cardinal The keys of this blood the jesuits and Many many more Born by the way and carry ireland in 1921 He has done many many exorcisms and that Is uh generally what we’re talking about Right now and Uh possession i’m trying to understand Possession And we left off last hour uh talking About The fact that it apparently is Generational uh doctor Generational possession yes yes it’s

Uh let me explain that it’s not that That Possession is passed on with semen Passed on with genes No no no it’s that the same Demon inhabits the members of the same Family For generations consentingly Consensually Uh he is nourished by them and kept by Them and Satisfied with them the children are Trained in it And they perpetuated in their children Has gone on for Generations that’s generational and Sometimes unwillingly uh We have cases in hand for instance of Daughters To whom their mother attached Her familiar her evil spirit and Then we have the job of ridding them of That and it takes time And it’s painful and anguishing How how does a person how does a person Know Does a person know i mean is it in the In the mind Or the soul of the possessed uh is there Always knowledge Of that possession there is But it can be limited knowledge and can Also Be inhibited knowledge some of them

Can’t even Tell you about it some of them can It depends on the particular type of Demon there are many types of demons Some of them are quite intelligent some Of them are very stupid most of them are Specialized in one thing and one thing Only And that’s all they can do uh and it’s a Reflection of some gift as angels which They had Now distorted as demons uh And in in these matters as in everything Connected with it Go to the experts don’t try and do it Yourself And then do not there’s a big confusion Art which we should clear up for Everybody and it’s this there are many Healers And deliverance experts and many people Will undergo Lengthy prayers and incensings and Raised ceremonies But the truth is this the horrible truth Is this That if there is a demon in your life And he dictates your behavior at least In one province of life One area of life he can only be expelled By direct confrontation by somebody with Authority to expel Him now so when i say him of course Spirits have no sex they’re not male or

Female I just use him in the generic sense of The english word Um but it’s the confrontation It’s not a prayer jesus was a prayer to Be very simple to get rid of him All right this is something i want to Ask about uh if i might for a moment Doctor Sure i had a call a couple of weeks ago From a woman who said that uh she had Been in bed believe this with her Children one night and she was attacked Doctor attacked by some sort of demon Or spirit that was actually waiting Upon her actually trying to sodomize And sure and rape her and she was Unable to speak unable to move unable to Utter Anything and in the middle of this Attack The phone rang the answering machine Came on somebody’s voice began speaking And whatever it was left now She said that the only way this thing Would leave And she had been attacked many times was If she Audibilized audibilized uh some sort of Something and And i s and she said i i sat there and i Prayed and i asked God to cast off whatever this was and It would not go and my question was and

I pondered after the call it was a very Serious very scary call And i pondered afterwards if god Hears our prayers those cast silently Forward Then why would god not hear a silent Plea a scream As it were why must something like this Be audibilized There are mysteries about this entire Situation Which we to which we have no answer but Uh there is there are laws He has set up laws governing the Existence of man and woman And one of them is that audibilizing Something Does make a difference and Uh it can be as simple as this that The you see the the attention that a Demon Requires of the possessed person or the Person they’re going to violate Can be that that’s that position can be Distracted Their will can be diverted their mind Can be diverted From being as if we’re hypnotized being Held By some audible voice message from Another normal human being and god knows What grace of god that Voice brings with them but that it does Happen that audibilization does have an

Influence there’s no doubt about it There’s no doubt about it and there’s no Specific answer is No specific answer and you know uh There’s the biggest problem is Who is possessable are people always Asking me am i liable to be obsessed And we have tried to create a profile of The possessible person but we have found That Neither sex nor education nor color nor Race Nor education nor riches nor poverty Nothing makes a difference it’s Apparently to our mind it’s random A random choice i know very naughty People Yes who are not a bit possessed they’re Just very not very women And then i know people who are not Naughty at all but a lapse in one thing And they do Undergo possession knowing the nature of Humans Uh if somebody has made in effect a pact With the devil yes uh is it not more Likely That those uh cases of possession would More frequently than not be the Rich the powerful those who have Attained Great material success or wealth You would think so art but you would yes De facto no

No poor people people with very little Social resonance people occupying very Obscure Positions in the social ladder everybody Is susceptible to some ambition Something they want either for revenge Or self satisfaction or Self advancement yes and everybody is Liable So the pact could be something as simple As the wanting or the wishing of a a Mate or the attention of somebody of the Opposite sex or um That’s right to get married to get Married to get this woman Yes uh you see for instance If i could do this now i want to take The following example but with great Care Do you remember susan smith yes two Children Of course now for an exorcist The pattern is very clear The children were in her way Yes or for ambition whatever that Ambition was it concerned a young man Yes it did and the exodus and exodus Could say about that It was obvious that they were used As obstacles they were used by satan to Possess her will And make her commit the grievous sin of Mantra side Because she was convicted of that anyway

So i’m not accusing her of anything that She’s not convicted But that would be read by an exorcist as A typical example Of possession of the will of somebody to Commit a very evil act Just for the sake of doing evil because That’s the whole point of the demon to Do evil for the sake of evil Should somebody like you have consulted With susan smith Well if i was asked to generally we People We were very cheery about intervening at All And there’s enough work on our plate to Keep it going But uh yes can Can can somebody uh doctor of any faith Be uh possessed yes of any faith doesn’t Matter Of no faith at all would a catholic Priest Perform an exorcism on a non-catholic Yes he would and we do we do Now that it’s much more difficult Because you can’t call on their faith Except faith they generally emerge from An exorcism a successful exorcism With a tremendous faith in god not Necessarily catholic faith but faith in God Speaking for the the layman there are Many people walking around listening

Right now Who are no doubt uh scared to death Because at one time or another in their Life They have probably in a moment of Despair Or a moment of need said i’ll i’d make a Pact with the devil if i could just have So and so And and they’re probably uh thinking at This moment there’s a pretty good chance They may be possessed you can’t be Possessed without knowing it And you can’t be possessed against your Will You may wish all day and all night for The devil to come and uh Sign a pact with you as it were a Faustian Principle like mrs douglas in the play Of gertie But it can’t happen without you knowing It And without you willing it fully finally Fully Bit by bit by bit so that You needn’t be afraid that you’re Possessed and you don’t know it no no no That that doesn’t happen Well are there not though no doubt many People who have achieved Success or achieved that goal for which They made that Dark wish that moment and they

Certainly must wonder no they know They know they know they know They know full well and that’s the Darkest secrets of their life That sets them apart from wife or Husband or lover Or mistress or brother or sister and you Say you have seen these people you know These people when you see them Oh yes you do you you get you you meet Them in the street you meet them in in Cocktail parties you meet them in dinner Parties you meet them Meetings and conventions and because i Must tell you that i i run like i run i I get out of their way I have enough of it i don’t want to Confront them I don’t want to have anything to do with Them unless i have to professionally Doctor catholic priests how many Catholic priests are uh capable of or do Within the church exorcisms nowadays Aren’t unfortunately a minimum as you Know In the last 25 or 30 years belief in The devil belief in evil incarnate In an evil spirit belief in hell Uh belief in the demons the existence And the activists you say of lucifer And of satan they’re distinct demons by The way people often confuse them but They’re distinct demons The belief in that has flagged has got

Very weak And the result is that when we started Doing a lot of exorcisms here In the northeast corner of america in The 1970s We finally had to go to rome and ask Permission because the local bishops Some of them didn’t believe so we went To rome and said look These people we need authority because By the way nobody can do an exorcism Without being given authority And uh it must be a bishop gives us ours So we have to go and get special Permission from rome to do it Because we couldn’t get it here now some Bishops do believe some bishops don’t Believe some priests do believe some Priests don’t believe Most of them want to have nothing to do With it they know little and they want To know less That really and some bishops some Cardinals we know Say look don’t bother me you have all The authority you want but don’t tell me A thing about it i don’t want to have Anything to do with it Possibly the source of the hear no evil See no evil That’s part of it that’s part of it if You have to take into account That so-and-so this political leader This particular borrow leader

This particular ceo Is possessed it does complicate life Argument It does complicate life a big surgeon A big psychiatrist Is is by way of demonically possessed It makes a huge difference can a person Of faith be possessed Can any posses any person have faith be Prepared a person of great faith Be possessed no no Without without the renouncing the time Comes when you’re asked To make a change you can’t be possessed Against your will and if your will Is strong in your faith you can’t be Possessed You can be obsessed you can be bothered You can be arrested yes And harass terribly and the major Portion of The major portion of cases that occupy My my daily Dealing with this are cases of obsession And harassment And it’s terribly distressing what about The demographics of possession Um we saw the exorcist can a child be Possessed No except unless in exceptional cases You have children born and Quickly developing at the age of four Five with a will as strong as a person Of

25 really And they can undergo possession but it’s Rare it’s very rare They can be harassed and obsessed And that’s usually generationally on Account of Um let’s see what’s right what word am i Looking for in in a Generational case of uh possession Uh is the does the parent actively Um actively teach this child again in The dark ways Oh yes yes they assign the child To their demon they’re satisfied with That the demon becomes what they call a Familiar of theirs And they give it a name they call it Philip they call it george they call it John they call it james they call it Mary Whatever and they assign the childhood They teach the child To do obeisance to it and they make the Child participate in ceremonies Satanist ceremonies wow There’s a lot of that going on in America It’s very hard to say a lot as it goes On Continually and sustainably In certain areas yes and Whether it’s boston or whether it’s Montana Or california or new mexico

The place doesn’t matter the place Doesn’t matter There i must confess to you that there Is um A lot of very impressive generational Cases Are found or have been found not all but A lot of such cases Have been found amongst old american Families The old traditional Yeah yeah yeah they originally came over On the mayflower kind of an american Family that’s that sort of business yes That sort of business yes it’s a murky Story and has never been written up Properly Mainly because well it concerns family Genealogies you know and It’s hard to write that up and get it Published and then what’s the point But you come across generational Possession and harassment Or possession too in such families Such old old families whether they’re Touch reformed With their puritan or whatever i suppose Getting it in print uh one reason might Be the The truth doctor um all right back now To Uh dr malachi martin and uh doctor uh You’re In i haven’t even told everybody you’re

In manhattan aren’t you that’s right i Live in manhattan Up from manhattan um doctor as a young Priest how did you first Uh what was your first exorcism and uh How was you what was your reaction to it Well my first exorcism was in cairo Egypt and i was a young priest and i was An archaeologist i was Lying on my belly on my back in caves On the sign peninsula copying Inscriptions Inscriptions dating from about the time Of abraham about 1600 or 1700 bc That’s about what three thousand years Ago more than three thousand Yes and uh the negligence was going on And i didn’t know it when i came back Down uh By plane and checked into cairo because I came down Every couple of weeks to get a bath and To eat properly Yes because we lived on goats cheese and Black coffee When we were up digging One of the priests was telling me that He was engaged in exorcism and his Assistant has collapsed Which is not uncommon with young Assistants Because in your first exorcism If you’ve never done it before the

Impact is so great Sometimes you become totally incontinent It scares you scares you to the point Where you can’t move and can’t speak and Can’t help And everything all the portals are loose You have diarrhea you vomit Uh because it’s so repellent It’s so shocking so it’s not for the Weak of heart no no no it’s not and i’ll Describe in a moment exactly What is the repellent part about it but So i was asked to assist so i did and Apparently my i was i had a very strong Constitution still have And um and i hadn’t got that effect it Had a It had a disgusting effect it always has That was the first time It was a very sticky exorcism in general If you want to understand what an Exorcism is like and what’s really the Essence The difficulty the the horror that is This Uh you must imagine say a Common scene it’s a room It’s always within a room within a house It’s in a room There’s nothing on the walls no nails no Pictures nothing that can move Um if the windows are there they’re Barred With shatters you don’t have blast

Around the place that can be shattered Um all of this is prepared all this is Prepared And you have the person in question is Either violent or not Most times not violent to begin with and There’s either a bed or An iron bed or a chair Or whatever there’s a you have no table But people You have an exorcist with an assistant And he has assistance there The assistant is the priest and then he Has several other people Usually men dressed in In clothes they can take a lot of hard Way And they carry everything in their hands They have to have a candle and they have To have holy water And they have to have the priests a Prayer book etc Now here’s the point i said before that People go undergo a psychiatric Examination undergo a medical Examination and finally people say okay Let’s try exorcism And i said that i mean within the first 20 minutes You know it’s a real case of possession And then you’re into it And you can’t withdraw you can’t simply Say okay boys Let’s break up and seeing each other

Next monday you can’t do that Once you’ve started you’ve got to finish It or else what uh Why you are pursued by that demon You are pursued the exorcist that’s Right and everybody in that room Has troubles um and the troubles can be Can be extraordinary i mean i’ve seen Assistants Trying to hold somebody down and Dropping the person and looking at each Other because the The person the possessed person start Telling the Telling one man what the other man did To his wife Oh boy well yes we’ve been through that Too And sometimes it’s a lie sometimes it’s True sometimes it’s an exaggeration Anyway But after the first 20 minutes what Happens in that 20 minutes the following Happens Now the temperature of the room may Change there may be a horrible smell There may not be a horrible smell All those are incidental things the Olifactory Experience or the the heat and the cold Experience But here’s the the the real point at a Certain moment If it’s really an exorcism and if we are

In The presence of a possessing spirit or a Threatening spirit Demon everybody in the room The priest and his assistant and the Assistants They they know and i i i can only call On some Some experiences of people listening to Me and you yourself aren’t You know there’s something in the room That wants you dead But dead dead dead i mean I’ve only been twice in my life Threatened with real deaths But really threatened once in Czechoslovakia And once was in america and uh it’s a Horrible feeling knowing that unless Something happens You are going to die now yes And that’s the it’s like a an Invisible animal with claws and it Once you did it really wants your life’s Blood it wants you Extinguished has it happened doctor has An assistant or an exorcist or anybody Present at an exorcism Ever been killed well no but they have Died of heart attack They’ve died of some form of Of internal health attack none of them Had been killed Exactly except in one case i wasn’t

Present that is There was a case in america where the Person was flung out a window And defense races and killed eight Stories down without a window or a heart Attack it’s dead Oh it’s dead but the point is that the Experience is Everybody in the room suddenly knows and You don’t even look at each other you Know especially if you’ve done exorcism Before with the same team You know this is it we’re now in that Presence And the point is this here’s the point i Want to drive home It’s a confrontation not a series of Prayers Of pious wishes and of deliverance And healing invocations no no no This is a confrontation between the Exorcists will And the possessing demon or the Harassing demon And thereby then there comes the Conversation Because the exorcist has to find out the Name What the demon calls himself if we want To speak about himself It’s not himself or herself as we all Know but anyway what they What their name is and the name is Usually a reflection of their function

Now what their their function is as an Evil spirit And you have to get them to admit that There are certain rules You never answer a question put you by The possessed person you’re always Playing a question back at them How do you know when you are speaking With That demon it is impossible not to know It once the person starts talking It is impossible not to know you know Everybody in the room knows And it’s not a change of voice sometimes The voice is a big change in the voice Sometimes there’s a small change But there’s something the manifestation Of the spirit when it’s cornered By an authorized exorcist is Palpably clear like the nose in your Face everybody knows And there’s no deception about it and it Has this bone chilling effect So it’s like a war once it begins It’s a real confrontation and this is Where People make a mistake about treating With With evil spirits if they think or Suspect or know That they’re being bothered they attempt To take it on themselves and you can’t Do it you have no authority well i was Going to say this is one of those don’t

Try to do home things in other words That’s right you you don’t sit by a bed And attempt yourself Not knowing what you’re doing to say say A nice little prayer that this spirit Will leave the body You can do that if you want to and it’s Okay to do it and it does relieve the Pressure and attention But it does not it does not dispossess a Possessing spirit It does not for that you need authority And this is the difficulty that Buddhists and Jews and non-catholics Sometimes come to us and say we’ve been Trying exorcism and it doesn’t work And one would laugh if everyone’s so Pathetic at times Because they must have the the only the Authority of christ Can get rid of them can’t get rid of the Spirit And that’s what takes place and then That can be long or short it can be a Long game of cat and mouse Trying to trap the demon trying to get It to Conceal and then it latches into Complete silence Or violence doctor we hear of successes At the end the story usually ends well Are there failures are there times there Are failures where

Total failure and that is calamitous Because then that means the person goes Ahead Possessed it means that the exorcist Has sacrificed something for nothing Because let me explain something to your Art which is very hard to explain But there are parallels analogies and Lifestyles When you do exorcism you give Something but you can’t get back it’s Like for instance Any parent who is we have children will Tell you Oh i gave them so much love yes they’re Not talking about money Or or food or they’re thinking about What they gave of themselves You give of yourself in love and Affection and devotion And and planning et cetera et cetera and You can’t get it back an au pair and Want to back really Similarly with an exorcism the exorcist Gives A little part of him dies put it like That and goes away and wait for him in Heaven Little slice of death yes a little slice And Princess after a bad exorcism i mean a Long helped Unhealthy one you don’t eat very much For a couple of weeks and you don’t

Sleep very deeply either You can’t you can’t you you’ve been Locked in combat with uh With a very very incelubrious unhealthy Anti-human A heating spirit that has communicated With you For those uh not of faith Um are there during the course of Exorcisms Actual physical manifestations Uh in or near the person or around the Person or in the room As in the movie how do things ever move Do Do you actually yes oh yes things move If there’s anything movable In the room it’s going to move if there Are nails on the wall if there are Pictures If there are windows that can be broken They’ll be probably broken If there are if there’s something which Is weak Or unbreakable it can break It can move And so you want to have a very Bare situation completely and even then The exorcist is not Is not free once it’s all over i’ve been Flung out of bed i’ve been knocked off Stools And broken my shoulder By the demon to get his own back just to

Remind me he was there And to make me pay a price for the Damage i did this is like going to war It’s very much like going Into the world it’s hot but most people Don’t realize this that there’s a Spiritual war And as saint paul says it’s a war with The spirits It’s a war with the with the forces of Evil The invisible forces that want men’s Souls Are there times as a priest where Um even the very best of men doctors Sometimes Um fear war reasonably Does a priest sometimes fear entering This war When you when you know you are about to Meet up once again with the worst Yes that’s always that fear and a very Old exorcist gave me advice for years Ago in ireland I mentioned this trip and he said okay But listen learn to measure Your love of god by the amount of fear In your heart Which is a very profound statement it is Yes because If it depends on how much you love god And if you really love him as father as Savior And this final end of everything and as

The beautifier And there’s the creator of nature the Creator of all beauty in our lives Um it can expel fear but if you nourish Fear That fear can grow and Not quantum quantitatively but it can Equal or Surpass the amount of love you have in Your heart and then you’re in danger Because that fear is going to make you Despair that fear is going to make you Timorous That fear is going to make you Vulnerable Love is the only thing that can cure it Love is the only protection we have you Mentioned there were priests Who do not believe that people are Possessed That’s right that’s right um do they Carry that belief Because of fear do you think uh for the Most part or No art the cases i have known are Priests Whose faith has been diminished See faith is not a quantum like a a bank Balance or something in your pocket Or clothes you wear it’s a dimension of Soul And that dimension can be greater or Less greater or less And it can be diminished by

Infidelities by sin By fecklessness by carelessness It can be increased by virtue it can be Increased by good actions It can be increased by the grace of god But it’s usually Because of the lack of faith faith When they they think that there’s no Such thing as evil really That it’s okay dude you like it just Don’t frighten the horses And but there are laws though god has Laws And he doesn’t allow them by violation You can violate them but you’re going to Pay the price And one of the prices is that you slowly But surely edge Towards that region of human existence Where the demons Are dominant and they will satisfy you They’ll Give you a good life but do you end up They’re a prisoner They’re a prisoner is there ever a case Where the person Uh who is possessed Dies in the course of the exorcism yes It has happened And it’s caused untold trouble because There’s usually a lawsuit But that’s why we are very careful as Regards the medical condition Of the persons that we exercise

What has been you say there’s a lawsuit Um well i mean the The husband or the wife or the boy or The friend or the son or the daughter Sue the priest so the priest Yeah yeah yeah for having put their Relatives Through uh an experience that Caused them to have a heart attack Caused them to Have a coronary whatever it has happened What would happen a doctor to the soul Of the person who would uh die under Such circumstances Under their circumstances we must say we Don’t Know there’s always the chance you know The old story between the bridge and the Water This man was pursued by his enemies and Living in sin and he tried to jump over A bridge and swim into the water but They shot him yes but before his body Hit the water he had repented There’s always this you never know you Just never know I just wouldn’t like to be in that Position uh Myself uh has that happened to you Yes it has happened it has happened to Me and it’s it’s very distressing And then i i’ve Been asked to go see people who are Possessed by their husband or their wife

A brother or sister and come away Empty-handed they simply told me to go To hell Literally literally literally Well that would be one pretty good sign Wouldn’t it I mean it’s just not something you do Tell a priest to go to hell Very discouraging very discouraging and They do it with great hate Great hate well as i say wouldn’t that Be a very clear sign It is it is art and so if you are told To go to hell to get out of here i don’t Want anything to do with you which i can Imagine More than not you might be told then Then what do you do well If you go away and you pray but you see For instance if i go into the green Grocer And i find the milk he’s supplying me His rotten And i say listen this milk is is smells Highly he says somebody get the hell out Of here that’s that’s one way of that That may even stop bothering me but if Somebody Tells you in the way that It does happen now and again to an Exorcist please Go to hell because that’s where i’m Going I want to be with the prince and i’m

Quoting a Certain case to you then it kills your Bones Because you know you’re up against Somebody perfectly possessed who Just was waiting to die and go home To his master have you ever wondered A doctor about your own heart about your Own constitution going into one of these Yes i have as i have and my my heart Specialist has always warned me That uh there’s a danger there Um and i know there is there is but You see there’s a i mean At the when you’re over 70 um You know the amount of good you can do In this world is limited because you’re No longer 20 25 30 and therefore whatever good you can Do you do If you’re wise because one day soon i’m Going to take the high jump As we all shall as we all shall So uh even today uh if you encountered It You would uh you would still do it oh Yes i would Oh yes i would because the the Commiseration the human compassion And the pity that the holy spirit puts In your heart Impels you because they are miserable And they make appeals to you a bit Unless they’re completely possessed

Doctor doctor hold tight relax All right there are stations that are Just joining us now you have missed two Very important Hours and it’s going to be impossible to Catch you up but we’ll try malachi Martin My guest is an ex-jesuit former Exorcist for many many years and one Time advisor to three Popes he is now a best-selling author as A premier investigator of the Clandestine politics and unlikely Alliances of popes and cardinals Dr martin uh offers rare insights in his Books into the men who guide nearly a Billion people in faith and broker the Destinies of countries and continents As a member of the vatican intelligence Network under pope john The 23rd martin helped extend the church Into iron curtain countries in 1964 Concerned about the corrupting Influences of power martin was Released from his vows of poverty and Obedience after 25 years as a jesuit he left rome for New york where he did odd jobs until a Guggenheim fellowship Enabled him to write his first Bestseller hostage to the devil followed By the final Conclave vatican three popes In the cardinal the keys of this blood

The jesuits and others He has been reviewed by many many many Many forbes said no Spiritual journey is complete without a Vatican page turner by malachi martin Sacramento b said it is to martin’s Credit That his real-life fictional cardinals Have flesh bone and blood Sometimes the heart of a south chicago Ward healer The dallas morning news said in biblical Times they would have called him A prophet he just described in In great detail um what exorcisms Are like uh doctor are you there how uh You’ve held up for through great Exorcisms how are you holding up this Morning Very well very well indeed i mean this Has been an exhilarating experience art All right i i have a lady would like to Speak to you she sent me a fax Uh doctor and i called her she sent me The following yes Art please help me if i’m not possessed Then i’m being harassed tormented used Abused sodomized all of it i believe My mother promised me to her evil spirit My family is an old american family I was i converted to judaism 30 years Ago And uh she sounded so much like somebody You described

That i thought i would bring her on the Air for a moment uh her name is eva eva Are you there Yes my name is eva eva all right eva you Are i’m sorry you’re on the air with the Dr martin how do you do dr michael good Morning ever Can you hear me yes very well yes thank You good Um if you are in that condition if you Think you Fulfill all those conditions in your Life you should apply to the local Bishop The bishop of the dust in which you live I don’t know what that does it is i Don’t need to know san francisco San francisco yeah well there may be a Difficulty there because Yeah a lot of the clergy Uh in san francisco have given up any Belief In the existence of evil above all of The Existence of evil spirits and i wouldn’t At all be surprised if the Archbishop of san francisco is among Those yeah I do not know ever i don’t know don’t Work i love san francisco i’ve been There several times in my life i’d love To live there Don’t bother i i don’t choose to be here I know i know well that that’s what

Happens with most of us Our place of living is imposed on us but In any case you have to apply for the Local bishop For for an exorcist now you say That a person who is truly possessed is Aware of it and And has made a deal well Put it like this yes With with conditions and restrictions That’s true of anybody who’s possessed Partially possessed is it a Straightforward deal what’s that Is it a straight forward deal no no it’s Never straightforward No it’s never straightforward you’re Always at the heel of the hunt in the Matter But you think you think it’s Straightforward but it isn’t Oh no no no what i mean is is what i’m What i’m trying to figure out Yeah um in a way speaking with you is a Dream come true And uh it’s also good thank you very Much saying That’s a bit of a nightmare i know ever Well Apart from anything else i promise you That when i say master this morning Which i shall after this broadcast I’ll give you a first intention in that Month There was a time when i would have just

Laughed at that but uh Tremendous respect for it now you’ve Acquired wisdom My concern is for my grown married Children Oh boy and my grandchildren Um i I’m afraid to People people that i become attached to Or involved with and that does include My family Um bad things happen and i’m really Afraid to be Around people another i mean I’m thinking of of a few deaths in Particular And and I know exactly what you’re talking about And my heart goes out to you What can she do she must find A good priest uh doctor there was i Would like to ask you a question One other time i was listening to a talk Radio program And a woman was on who all you had to do Was call up and Say your name and your age or something And she would sense this Stuff about you and and i and i and i Called And i gave my name and my my my age and So on and she said you know she said There’s a very strong presence of a man Who’s been with you for about 10 years

And you really need to do something About that And was it was it accurate uh I yeah it was accurate yes and i i Didn’t follow it up i had It it’s really taken me close to a year Too to Be comfortable with actually saying that I know ever The i would be cherry if i were you of Any freelancer In this whole matter nice it’s terribly Serious You see there’s no doubt about it a Demon Can have information about one Uh without any reference to god at all Without any reference to our Safety i’ve already learned that Yeah they can know things you you need To be Under the protection of of god And you need the authority of christ to Get rid of any Harassing or obsessing angel in your Life because You don’t sound as if you’re possessed But you do sound harassed And obsessed yes and that’s the Commonest form of demonic activity Now explain this to me i at one time was Even fairly unfriendly about the Catholic church because there’s been So much movement now that you’d have to

Decide to There are so many factions of course Which which is Good to my point of view you say Give give myself up to the authority of Christ Yes um through an exorcism that doesn’t Mean To accept christ as a savior it just Means to Acknowledge the authority that christ Would have In this matter that’s right ever But i must be frank with you once you Admit Christ as having authority in this Matter And once you benefit by that authority You’ll find that he lives in your heart Well he was a jew ever ever we are out Of time and we must go But you uh i think the upshot here is Seek the advice Of the church that i don’t i don’t if You yeshu i i i just don’t want to leave It on that note i I am not i mean i ex there’s much i Accept about about christ the man And what a wonderful i know the Important man he was Well yes you want to put it like that um But let’s leave it that ever but I’ll be praying for you that’s the Promise all right um

Uh doctor i just got the following and Maybe you can tell me Yeah the kind of person that this came From dear art Your present conversation with the Priest Is not without dangerous complications And consequences i don’t have to tell You just how many minds are listening to You on the radio minds That can be in turmoil minds Unknowledgeable of the subject and the Danger i beg you to end this Conversation without delay Uh this is this is um Somebody who is afraid of what they’re Hearing Yes i can imagine that it would to Certain minds Represent a danger But uh i It can suggest things to people And i’m sorry if it does There’s no suggestiveness in what you’re Saying what i’m saying But the outlining of a reality in our Lives the presence of evil Is surely something that we must admit And acknowledge and not be blind So i i appreciate their fears But i think they’re ill-founded Doctor during the course of an exorcism What things or messages do you typically Hear from a demon in that process in

That war In that confrontation what do you hear You hear if you lay yourself open to it You hear our approaches about your life Your past life in your present life if There’s something to be reproached He’ll throw it at you like mud Then you also hear if you allow it to Continue The an exorcist must control everything You hear a lot about what it could be Like If we weren’t bothered about details Like religion You hear a lot of deceptive suggestions And of peacefulness and let everybody Think And do what they want to do the message Then in the extreme cases you get total Blasphemy They go after you they try to challenge Your faith of course And it’s it’s very subtle and you must Be shocked by that you must be shaken by That Uh you must be able to deal with it and Never answer a question never take up Something shoved at you always be in Control Yeah a priest is also a man Uh with uh with faults with guilt Um all the things perhaps fewer than the Rest of us but things that can be thrown Into his face

To make him weak that’s right they can They can shame him And they can weaken him and for that Reason he needs to be Virtuous he needs not to have sin on his Soul He needs to have cleansed his soul in Confession Uh he needs to be clean if he’s not Clean The demon will know it is it Possible as in that movie the exorcist That that demon can move From the possessed to the exorcist yes Yes yes yes yes yes that’s the danger That if you can’t you can’t have any Truck with this Uh unless you’re in control Do you remember doing exorcisms in which You weakened Yes i do when i was momentarily shaken Yes by the shocking thing Said to me about god about the angels About heaven about human beings about Human love above all And the the the contempt The contempt and the despisement And the ridicule That human love is accorded by the demon When he really talks is something Frightening It’s something fighting and you realize Then that all human love Is useless unless it mirrors the love of

God So human love by itself is insufficient It’s insufficient it can be ridiculed And Mocked and imitate it and Reproduce falsely when it is an echo Of divine love then it’s it’s divine Speaking of false things doctor is it Possible Uh or probable that a person taking Drugs Is is more susceptible to the Possibility of possession Yes yes in fact there’s a twist that i’d Like to give to us You can through exorcism be rid of a Drug habit Because many in many cases not all I’m sure but in many cases the lapse Into a drug habit The adoption of a drug habit is the Result of Satanic influence demonic activity What you can get rid of it what um if If you were to give out sort of a General piece of advice to people who Are wondering About possession what signs do you look For This if If in your life There is some imperative coming Out of left field not of your choice But commanding you urging you

To do something To yield to be controlled And know that that can herald Demonic activity for instance let me Explain something to you We heard a lot for a long time we still Hear a lot about transcendental Meditation And the essence of it was that you you Made your mind blank Yes you know yes you you you channeled The difficulty art is this if you do That you are sitting duck You open the door and say come in And the same thing with the ouija board And the same thing with the mini Channeling activities It is not necessarily the board itself That’s just cardboard But when you use it in that manner You’re issuing an Invitation that’s right you’re saying The door is open please come in whoever You are You can’t do that with impunity You can’t do that with impunity and many A case we’re dealing with today Starts with a simple thing as the ouija Board used as a play thing But it got serious then there are Spiritual say answers of the same kind Channeling waiting for the spirits to Talk oh they talk Um doctor um we talked about earlier the

Quickening You talked about an increase in Possession or exorcism Of Have we seen this increase since about 1969 to 1989 In that time it’s a funny thing a lot of Things that happened at that time in the World And in the church of rome my church About which i’ve just written that book Wins reptiles Um and it’s all a lot of it is negative A lot of negativity and There’s been a lot of bloodshed in that Time by the way And there’s been a lot of environmental Damage And surely lucifer Who wants the death of the human race Will use any means especially radiation Um to destroy human hopes in human life When we come back after the bottom of This hour i would like to ask you Whether We are approaching the final days i want To ask you about the rapture Okay back now to dr molokai martin In manhattan doctor in your second set Of tapes concerning the storm And inside the vatican you had pointed Out that we are going to be chastised This is from a gentleman in Beaumont texas you’re uh that we’re

Going to be chastised you said It can’t be mitigated there will be Catastrophes calamities natural Disasters Great sections of humanity will be Leveled this Is part of the third secret of pharma uh In 1917 july 13th but you implied this would be more In the distant future than In the deserted vineyard you said very Clearly This will occur you believe in the next Three or Four years yeah Um yes the the the the time seems to be Foreshortened as regards to what they Call the chastisements these Punishments that are going to come upon Us Uh and then these are starting in a Remote fashion But i expect them i expect one can Always be wrong Um in spite of my reputation i’m not Prophet art But i expect them between now and 2000 But not definitive not the end of the World not the Coming of antichrist not the the final Judgment not the rapture A great change a great change however a Great a very great change And uh you know the old song keep your

Eyes on the skies I would keep my eyes on the skies From the beginning of this winter until The end of spring 97 because depending on what happens in That time We will more or less have a prognosis For what’s going to happen between now And 2000 how many Human beings do you think will make it Through this change A good majority of the present human Beings that are alive But in great misery In a world where perhaps you don’t want To live that sort of thing That’s right that’s right all right There are many many people who want to Speak with you doctor uh Wild card line you’re on the air with dr Martin good morning where are you please Yes uh this is uh a doctor and i’m a Former seminarian i Would rather not give my name that’s Quite all right that’s quite all right A wonderful program art and father Malachi I think one of my spiritual directors Was A friend of yours namely a father menard Oh yeah ernest j menard yes yes yes and I was uh seminarian at With the pre-month detentions in l.a for A while

But i wanted to talk first of all would You Tell art something about three days of Darkness when i’m done Yes i will briefly and um i wanted to Just mention I wanted to talk about i was a youth Minister after getting out of the Seminary And we were asked by the bishop to go to Ogden And we were told why the bishop wanted Us to be in ogden And we did a retreat for 110 hispanics And dozens fell on the ground frothing And i realized that i was not prepared For that And so i fasted for about three days While we were doing that retreat And no ills happen but later on in In oregon i met somebody who was heavily Involved in new age and occult Yeah and i got an inner word that says Get out of the room fast And i was trapped Between it was a real small room and Crowded and couldn’t get out without Making a scene so i waited a couple Minutes And that night i had my first out of Body experience i was basically grabbed By a demon and um I have had occasional out-of-body Experiences sent then and basically they

Are stopped By the name of jesus that’s right that Means at that stage Get free of it all as soon as possible Yeah those people are involved in Alibaba experiences Dangerous um uh doctor thank you uh for The call very dangerous very dangerous Very dangerous Any truck with that and you’re into what They call you’re on to the middle Plateau And that’s a very dangerous situation Three days of darkness yes there’s There’s no darabar there’s going to be There are going to be three days When there’s a great darkness Uh over our earth and during which It will be dangerous to be abroad to be Outside your home And even in your home it may be Dangerous Three days without sun three days Without the lateral light we’re used to Art yes Without that um but it’s like everything Else when it takes place They will endeavor to give it an Astronomical an astrologer astronomical And geophysical explanation You know so much of what you’re saying This morning my audience knows you might Not because You’re in manhattan where i presume that

You’ve not been able to hear me Yes i i’ve heard everything you said Tonight well tonight yes But uh doctor in just the past week I i i don’t know why i asked the Audience If one day you arose And the sun did not come up What would you conclude i just asked Them that General question and uh what was the Answer Uh the answer was uh many answers were Flippant Yeah but many answers were they would Conclude that the end has begun Or that a change is uh definitely upon Us It was just a theory to me that i even Asked you I know right now east of the rockies You’re on the air with dr Malachi martin where are you calling From please uh from fort myers florida How you doing doctor How you doing that what’s on your mind Okay It’s something that’s been worrying me How a lot of leaders the religious Leaders like the pope and mother teresa And even you know political like fort Yeltsin is you know very ill yeah And i was wondering is that like A big sign that it’s coming now or soon

Yes it is because These main leaders or apostles or Leaders in the world are ailing It means for me it’s an indication of The end The uh the end of an era the beginning Of a new era Well he’s right about that mother teresa Of course is ailing Uh the pope yeah the pope is ailing very Much Very much in fact within 12 months we May have a new pope For all we know um and boris yeltsin is Ailing but he’s not the only one There’s uh there’s something happening And you know in Human history if you look at it really Cohesively You’ll find that no error ends with a Plonk like that And the next one starts they always Dovetail And our past era is now dovetailing with A new era Which is a bit frightening quite frankly Many Things are beginning to happen volcanoes Erupting Uh the ozone thinning uh Animals beginning to mutate it seems Like all of this Is increasing in uh In its occurrence and you know jesus

Said About his own generation he said this Generation that can tell me in the Evening What tomorrow is going to be like it Reads the signs of the weather But it cannot read the signs of the Times and We are like that we don’t read the signs Of the times very well All right uh west of the rockies you’re On the air with dr malachi martin high Hi thank you for having me on your show Art yes sir where are you i Am uh in the bay area california yes sir I have two questions for uh is it father Martin Yes um i am uh art i’m an attorney And i’ve also been a christian for right Around 17 years Yes i’ve been studying demonology almost As long Yeah and i have two questions for uh the Father Yeah and a couple comments if i could First is What is the well let me preface this and Say you’ve mentioned a couple of times That it’s uh when you do Exorcisms there’s a conflict of the Wills and driving the uh The spirit out primarily the wills yes So what is the basis of your authority To cast out a demon

Christ okay yeah you’ve been a little Bit weak in referencing that and i would Go no i didn’t know Jesus i didn’t mean to be weak at all It’s jesus christ Okay that that’s good the second Question is um I am uh denominationally speaking more Of the protestant tradition And i would ask you uh can a Non-catholic Uh without the pope’s authorization do Exorcism I’ve never come across one yet okay but It may be But i’ve never come across yet they they Come to us Even though they remain proud of their Main methodists lutherans and Mormons and whatever or jews or muslims Or buddhists but they come to us for Exorcism Okay um well i’d like to Proffer that you’re speaking to somebody Who’s done a number of exorcisms just Good through my life i’m not a catholic And i don’t have the pope’s Authorization but Uh for you the benefit of your audience To support that Have they succeeded Is that okay if i do that art the Question was have they succeeded Oh yes yes i uh ministered to a young

Lady Uh last june she had multiple nightmares Every night i mean not just Bad dreams real nightmares and uh we Went through about You know two to three weeks of Deliverance sessions and drove out 20 some demons many of them manifesting And Speaking and telling us where they’re From doctor doctor is there a danger To what he is doing listen In my book there is but if he’s Protected he’s protected And you may have some protection sir Which i do not know It must ultimately come from christ Jesus in my book That’s what i affirm but if you have That protection Fine and dandy god bless you i’ll pray For you Thank you father you go right ahead you Sound like you You can’t you can’t expel these demons Except in his name That’s that’s affirming to hear you say That uh I i would like to just read two Scriptures art that are One of them is one of my favorite verses In this area another one that just i Would prefer you don’t do that uh I i thank you for the call sir uh but it

Is possible then doctor that somebody Uh a late person um could Successfully uh do an exorcism that’s Right He must therefore have been granted the Authority of christ jesus He must have been and that’s not Impossible It’s not necessarily absolutely Metaphysically necessary come Through a church man through an Ecclesiastic Normally in my life it always has but if Somebody else can do it Directly with a gift from the lord More powerful doctor there was a recent Movie Uh i don’t know if you’re a moviegoer it Was called um i think in its final Version prophecy Its working title uh during production Was god’s army Uh it was with christopher walken are You aware at all of that movie I i know i heard about read about it i Didn’t see it i don’t go to movies very Much It uh basically imagined A second great war between uh Heaven and hell ah um Is such a thing possible some second Great war between heaven and hell Or simply yes yes there is going to be One

Final clash one file clash And we’re on our way to it but we’re not There yet But we’re on our way to it how close to It do you think we are Uh of course art you and i know a Sensible man is very hazardous To to guess at timings yeah the one Thing that’s difficult are dates And times and hours and places but but Given what is happening to the nations Given the existence now of the new world Order As a fact of life and not a theory And not a plan for the future and given The Uh the rising uh Sea of very disturbing things Happening men and women negative things We are approaching a point when Something has to give And it would seem to be on a global Level And would seem to finally involve spirit Morals ethics finally the final battle So what time well i think that we’re Going to enter in these Remaining years of this century we’re Entering a period of Uh severe chastisements severe hardships Throughout the the cosmos throughout our Earth And i think that into the new century The the

21st century we’re heading for A lot of confrontations and ending up In a short time with that final battle Doctor with changes earth changes with Things that will occur it seems so Unfair Because when these changes begin clearly Those in third world nations Underdeveloped nations Will suffer and die at a Disproportionate Rate i do not know that art for sure I think that where things will be really Bad will be in our Overcrowded western cities Uh our big cities say mexico city With 30 million or atlanta or Los angeles or new york or chicago the Big urban Settlements i think that’s where the Real suffering will take place Now i think that the people living in Patagonia The people living in tasmania the Natives as we call them we’re native too But we always refer to the others as the Natives With our post-colonial mind we still say That art you know And i remember always making the my British friends uncomfortable by Referring them as native british Which were no thing in the native British sure only the nations were only

In africa For the british at that time anyway but The The the the the suffering may be more Intense in What we call civilization maybe much More intense because We are more dependent i mean look think What would happen to new york if the Water supplies cut off in the Electricity Oh yes oh that’s that’s obvious very Clear Um what has been your toughest your Hardest Exorcism as you look back It was in the bronx new york In 1983 And was a young priest a young priest Who was possessed and it was long drawn Out It was bloody and disgusting And took a heavy toll on everybody Involved Can you tell us the manner of the Possession how would a priest be Possessed was he himself doing an Exorcism No no no no no no he yielded piece By piece by piece uh Because it’s never subtle it’s never Said It’s just a little bit here a little bit There and he yielded to temptation

It wasn’t sexual temptation either it Was pride and arrogance And then this mystery of choice comes in The selectivity as i say it said before Earlier In the broadcast asked there’s no Profile we try to create a profile There’s none Some of them who some men who are very Naughty are not possessed Some men who are possessed or not very Naughty In their lives they’re not crooks um They’re not evil in that sense but they Are possessed But why he yielded god only knows that’s Free will of course But it was a very distressing thing and Involved a lot of people Involved historical family involved at Old parish Involved the local bishop And it was very distressing and he he Emerged from it but he succumbed after a Short time he died He died he was he was secured he was he Was saved But he died and he came out of it Utterly white And he was a young man with a big shock Of red hair And a young man he was a young priest But the wrath had started very early on In his family

He never told anybody anything about it And it was the most distressing thing I’ve been through Uh it really was the most distressing One How did you come out of it i came out of It with a little bit of me dead Quite frankly something i can’t get back Until he turns here when god rewards me I hope But something in me died It takes a little piece of of your of What um Doctor your faith no it takes a little Bit of You know you know what look we’re both Adults you know what a vitality is Yes and what you know verve and As the french call it sauce that back Yes the power of tackling something Of course when that’s Diminished and diminished and diminished Then that’s why i speak about little Bits of your departing A little bit of you die it’s a sacrifice You make You you can give as we as the analogy i Use those children to whom you give love You can’t get it back of your life Essence or energy Yeah yeah you can’t you can’t give it to Somebody else You know you give something which is of Of your very soul

And we willingly do it as parents or Parish priests or as Counselors but i know sufficient Uh sufficient number of psychiatrists And psychologists and i know They expend themselves for the sake of Their patients And they can’t give back what they give They get money sure yes but That’s no substitute at all so then when It happens to a priest or somebody of Great faith or service to god It is it is harder it is deeper It’s it is and you know that’s if you If you were to get close to the present Pope That’s what strikes you about him at Certain moments A complete draining of his spirit I remember i had to convey a message to Him once He came home from a 10-day tour Of the far east and uh doctor doctor We’re at uh the top of the hour are you Uh constitutionally capable of another Hour All right the following comes to me as You might imagine unsigned for a good Reason Doctor i’m going to read you something I’d like you to react to it if you would Um dear art and dr martin in 1991 I made a pact with anyone that could get My girlfriend to come back the response

Was by satan at that point my eyes Literally rolled back And i heard only two words one year One year later she broke up with me for No good reason Several months later i was asleep had a Dream that i was looking at myself In a mirror brushing my hair when i Looked at my eyes in the mirror they Turned totally black the person was me But the soul behind the eyes Evil at that point i knew exactly who it Was what i wanted and how it got There at this point i was awake tried to Get up and turn on the lights but was Physically pushed back down to a prone Position And could no longer move even a finger To make matters worse The bedroom door slammed shut and i was Cut off from the light In the hallway what happened to this Person This person accepted possession And was possessed and infested And the demonic power took over i’d love To know what happened subsequently There’s no doubt it’s a genuine Everything there is genuine And this was copied from a book but it’s A genuine Genuine phenomena these things really Happen doors Really happen they do but you see the

Point is this that if you go to a doctor And tell him that You know he sends you to a shrink you’re A hybrid But it doesn’t help to go to a shrink With these things at all Unless the shrink knows what he’s doing Talking about it sends you off to an Exorcist And uh apropos of that remember the You’ve got also got a letter of fact From somebody asking you to do this Cease and desist from this conversation Correct I now know the my reading of that is That their Lifestyle is disturbed by being told the Truth About demonic possession and harassment To get back to this particular judgment Um i would love to know the result of he Won’t tell us this time perhaps some Other time he will Tell us what happened to him Subsequently everything’s there sounds Absolutely genuine has happened is Chronicled Is known to have happened to others and Is genuinely the effect of demonic Infestation all right uh One other doctor could you tell us Please more about what you believe that May be seen In the sky you said keep your eye on the

Sky between now and next spring Uh what should we be looking for and Then and then As a matter of fact before you answer That also he says can We obtain dr martin’s books yes The camp you have many books you’ve been A very prolific dean and i have one at The present moment called windswept House Which is about the present condition of The of the church of rome And of the present pope and what’s going To happen shortly to both Because people may not realize it Because of the flourishing condition of The church apparently We are in deep crisis in the roman Catholic church And i’m i’m a priest i say most every Morning i baptize babies i hear Confession et cetera So i’m a traditional priest but i know We’re in deep doo-doo In deep trouble and uh this book is About that’s my latest book but it’s Only It’s the 60th book i’ve written it’s Called windswept house that’s right By double dave doubleday so your books Are generally available in bookstores That’s right there or in paperback this One is still Not in paperback it will be next year

What Um what doctor are ghosts Ghosts yes sir genuine ghosts Are visitations By people already dead who are allowed By god To visit the living for some Reason or other usually known to the Person visited But not admitted by them until they wake Up There are some cases where what we call Ghosts Is demonic infestation of a house or a City Or a street it does happen have you had Occasion where you have Exercised a spirit or a ghost or Whatever it is from a house from a Structure in a house yes Going from room to room and expelling The demon It must be done i’ll be doing that in December in in In washington dc You are in your 70s again i ask you Concern about yourself Is there does there not come a time when Physically you should Refrain from doing this yes and i have Refrained to a large extent It’s nothing like the febrile activity Of my 40s and 50s and 60s No i haven’t then i’ve had open heart

Surgery And two heart attacks so you know Simply the nature of things has imposed A certain restraint on me where either One of these heart attacks Associated with exorcisms one of them Was Yes the bad one but that’s the price you Pay And art you know we’re only here for a Short time It is true it is true all right let’s go Back to the phones west of the rockies You’re on the air with dr Malachi martin high where are you please I’m in fairbanks velasquez fairbanks Alaska yes sir On your mind sir sagan what’s on your Mind i have a question for you i used to Be involved in um Magic before i was a christian and so Many demons and all that kind of strange Stuff Yes the question i have for you though Is now there’s a person up here Who is infested with them who is in Touch with what Demons you can actually see because Some of the stuff he does yes and i was Just wondering as the christian should i Even attempt to cast them out or just Leave them alone oh that’s a good Question uh it is Unless you have special authority

Don’t touch it with a bad don’t touch it Keep away from it Protect yourself don’t don’t attempt to Deal with it Is that is that clear enough for you Caller yeah that’s fine stronger than You it’s more intelligent than you Okay all right have a good morning and Stay safe East of the rockies you’re on the air With dr uh malachi martin high Hi good morning to both of you uh hard Like that i’m sorry i hadn’t been Listening this morning but i am taping It for later listening where are you sir Yeah i’m sorry where are you i’m in Fayetteville north carolina Name is bill um art i got a question for You and Also one for uh dr martin um if i Remember correctly Gonna jog my memory here you said that Uh you had a story about a ouija board Which you would not dare tell That’s right okay that’s that’s all i Wanted to know about that but uh that’s All i’m willing to say Dr martin yeah it’s a pleasure and honor To speak with you sir um thank you very Much Yes thank you um i was uh listening to Art’s show earlier and I believe sunday night you had a Dreamland thing where um you had a

Seance Is that correct art um i have a yeah i Have a recording i didn’t have a seance I wouldn’t yeah Um but i had somebody on who had Conducted a seance And in the course of that uh there was The sound of Babies crying and uh I played that on the air yes yes indeed Yeah i recall i believe a woman called In and said she heard a female voice in The background as well Yes uh but nonetheless uh dr martin my Question for you is uh just very simply What is the uh the role of a seance um In the in the act of demonic possession And the role of the cells Is chiefly this it lays you open To invasion because the essence of a Seance Is the sitting or standing or lying to 100 depends on what Physical posture they take and Trying to commune to communicate and to Commune with The spirits and that means opening The channels of your mind and will and If you do that You’re sitting duck a sitting duck All right uh first time caller line You’re on the air with dr malachi martin Hello Hi this is rita yes rita um i have a

Question um My sister-in-law that lives with us is Mentally Yes and i feel that uh Sometimes what i see coming out of her Is like a demonic thing what happens is If you ask her who her friend is you Know you ask her in a certain way She’ll say my friend is satan of the Black mountain And if My my daughter knows how to get her Going and just get crazy And i just wonder sometimes If has she always been like this Well not from the start of my marriage To my husband so he told me that she’s Evil And she has evil ways about her has she Always been Uh as far as yes as far as uh He knows she was born that way um And she’s got like the mentality of a Five-year-old That’s what the doctor just said now I’ve seen her as normal as you and i i Mean i don’t know how you are but i mean Yeah you can presume you’re normal Um she see my my daughter pretends to Vomit and she’ll just go off yeah and I’ll tell her i’ll say please stop You know just sit there and stay calm Ignore her You know if she can’t do it doctor um

It brings up an awfully good question uh A child Is that an easier target for possession No No no it’s not there has to be Collaboration of the will for possession Doctor i wonder how many people in Mental institutions All across this country instead of being Mentally ill May be possessed i’ve only gone through With a psychiatrist i’ve only gone Through two Mental institutions let’s call them There yes sir And over 50 are obviously possessed In those two places so then even in the Case of a child like this ladies child Uh you would recommend based on what you Heard that perhaps she sees somebody Like yourself yes somebody you know Authorities do something about it But i’m it’s very hard to judge case That is at this distance But from what she says it looks like That all right It looks like she could be possessed it Could be that she could be Infested here yeah because you know i’ve Talked to a priest yeah i’m catholic And i’ve talked to a priest and they Think i’m crazy what i see Is i can’t get her to open up or to be This way in front of anybody

Um but it’s like the sheep that Is the the wolf that’s under the Sheepskin Yeah i know and now you’re you’re being Very much more accurate than you know In describing it you must find a good Priest and and i’ve talked to priests And say that They wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot Pole of course not they’re afraid of Their Pants is that most priests Doctor or a majority unfortunately today A majority Because you see now when they’re Training in seminaries they’re not given Any formation whatever They’re given no formation no Theological formation And no instruction and then A lot of them a lot of the professors in Seminaries a lot of the trainers A lot of the bishops don’t believe in The devil And that’s great pr for him because it Means As you know during the war the Successful spy was the one nobody knew Was a spy Well how um how can A dumb question from layman how can a Priest Believe in the almighty and not the Other force i mean because

Actually uh it’s a very telling question And it’s an Intelligent question because overall Their Faith has weakened i said before to you It’s a dimension It’s not a quantum dimension and overall It has And if you if you uh i have done this I’ve probed people who don’t believe in This and i find That belief in the resurrection of Christ jesus their belief in heaven Their belief in hell is all is all Shaken to bits sometimes non-existent Can i ask you about a very sensitive Question again regarding um The fallibility of a priest in america In the church Um there have been too many stories a Doctor Of priests after their vows of celibacy Who have then Pedophilia yes there have but there’s no Doubt about it There is a plague of pedophilia now by The way look out There are 55 000 something 55 000 Priests in the dioceses of america And of that of that amount of 55 000 About Approximately two to four percent have Been found guilty of pedophilia Have been pedophiliacs uh it’s still too

Much And there’s no doubt there’s been a Plague and it’s been worsened because of The policy of bishops to cover things up Whereas if you find a pedophiliac priest Or layman You go to the nearest precinct and Report in my book But they didn’t do that they covered it Up and they transferred the man to Another parish with more little boys and Little girls to be Violated and therefore they have had a Very severe amount of trouble And by the way they since 1985 the Church in america has spent Well over 500 or 600 million dollars in Out-of-court settlements And that’s the money and the dimes in The nichols that are faithful Is it a doctor because of the church’s Attitude about it in other words they Feel that There’s been a breach of faith and they Want to work on that breach of faith Instead of Letting it become a civil matter Or is it just a plain old cover-up i Know what it’s more it’s more Uh complicated than that there isn’t a Network of homosexual priests We know that now unfortunately there is A network And they cover for each other so that’s

A complicating factor It’s not a wide network but it does Exist number one Number two as you know for any Ecclesiastic in the catholic church There are only two evils Bankruptcy or moral scandals yeah There’s two things they’re afraid of Yes they’re not afraid of anything else And therefore they try and cover Anything up which is light Which breathes scandal because that Destroys prestige and Finally stops money stops people Contributing what are your Feelings about vows of celibacy I’ll tell you something uh My experience as follows whether as a Chaplain in the u.s air force which i Was Or as a parish priest which i have Functioned as And as a priest now dealing with people There’s no doubt about it That a priest who is a celibate a real Celibate not just a unicorn You know a real celibate yes many many Who take the Of our celibacy are really you know Somebody has put a chance rebuilt on Them and throwing away the key and They’re looking for the key And sometimes they find it to be a rule And loot about it

But genuine celibacy Makes you so specialized that people can Confide in you Yes and they know you belong to them and Them alone And they they know you’re not going home At night to your wife And there’s nothing wrong with that but You’re not sharing Anything with anybody your heart your Heart belongs to christ as a celibate If you’re truly a celibate but celibacy Is a very It’s a gift by the way and it’s a rare Thing The practice of celibacy there are a lot Of celibates who take that vow But the practice of celibacy does Make a man very special because he is Uniquely devoted and by the way I don’t know if you found this out but The biggest psychiatrist i know the Biggest surgeons They’re practically celibate yes they Really are But there’s a price in that ah there’s a Huge price There’s no doubt about it and if that’s Where pure good celebrity comes in If you are really a celibate you Don’t dry up like a fake and become Hard and emotionless and insensitive to Human feeling do you understand me Yes it’s such a difficult thing to

Attain but if you do attain it Boy people find it so useful so Practical so helpful And some of those who don’t end up um Uh perhaps as pedophiles uh or others As abrasive characters because they’re Frustrated Beyond belief all right i’m sort of uh Sorting through the factses and Questions that i’m getting Uh dr martin uh another one i want you To listen to here Um dr martin i went to brophy college Prep in phoenix the premier jesuit high School in arizona Since i’ve left there i’ve been Tormented By a will that is other than my own i’ve Been forced to commit acts That i would never have dreamed possible Myself i have no control over them I want to do otherwise but i can’t stop I feel i’ve been violated spiritually I’ve had my mind and will taken over by Other spirits I know i have felt a force in me driving Me to do other than i want to do i am Not a jesuit I am more or less of the new Spirituality that’s out there i feel i Have been tormented by demons and have Been possessed i need to know how i can Stop it I want to have faith and i’m but i’m

Scared i believe each individual holds God within himself But i’m so afraid of losing control to These others again That i can’t hold any faith at all what Can i do Go to the local priest and bishop And get a necklace An exorcist how hard Are they to find today not so difficult In certain places they don’t exist but In other places they do And the first place to go to is the dars And chancery or the local parish bridge All right good advice mr bell this is Catherine from the gulf coast area of Texas would you please Ask father martin this question father John o’connor Not cardinal john o’connor said because The energy loss from a true Exorcist is so great that a catholic Exorcist Lives only about 15 years after he is Deeply involved in this He further says the hatred from the Demon is so horrendous That it literally drains him yes Yes but there are exceptions to the 15-year rule You must be one of them yes i am How do you feel why why do you feel that You’ve been so blessed I i i don’t i don’t know art i just

Don’t know i take it as it comes I didn’t expect to live this long i Really didn’t Surprise huh surprise is right if you Told me that one day would be 76 i would Have horse laughed Of course left yeah um i would like to Ask you about something we’ve dealt with On this program several times Uh i know your background is in uh Archaeology that’s right Uh so therefore uh there have been many Who have speculated and talked and Thought about The pyramids the sphinx uh at giza in Egypt Uh there is some uh work going on that May Result in the opening of some secret Passages below the sphinx yes i’ve read About this I’m not okay with it i don’t know how Far they’ve got uh I don’t know what’s what’s being done But i know there’s something being done In that nature Would you be surprised uh if there is Something Very ancient found there no no no no This is you see the the soil of egypt And the palestine in general preserves Things Because it’s dry and uh I’m convinced that one of these days

We’re going to find the most Extraordinary things like for instance A copy of the bible coming from Pre-exilic times that is before the Babylonian captivity That’s about 580 bc which should be Tremendous to find And if we did what would you imagine Might be within That would would cast out on much of What we believe It wouldn’t it would confirm it would Confirm because i’m Certain that we have a proper tradition But it would be lovely to have a Manuscript from that time From the time of isaiah do you believe That the the ark of the covenant will be Found Personally i do but i have no i have no Objective scientific grants for saying So i think it will be found Well as you know this new tunnel uh Archaeological tunnel that has just been Reopened again All the trouble yes many believe that The ark of the covenant is close It may well argue may well be as i say I have a feeling that we will find the Ark the covenant That god will allow us find it but i I’ve no I have no archaeological reason for Saying that all right one more and then

We’ll go back to the phones joseph in Seattle Wants to know do you have any comment About the numerous sightings and Encounters of And with what are being called Extraterrestrial beings And their relationship if any with Demons angels and the quickening process The only comment i would make is that Some Some of this so-called or So defined sightings of Extraterrestrials sounds like demonic Activity but I have never examined the thing closely And scientifically Professionally so i don’t know but some Of it sounds very like demonic activity And nothing to do with extraterrestrial Beings if such things Exist do you rule out the possibility of Extraterrestrials no I do not we just don’t know would the Existence of them in any way shake your Faith No it would not not the slightest ways It would expand my consciousness for Instance When columbus discovered america and That’s discovered america It was a mind opener for the europeans Certainly it was It was a mind opener i mean it it

It it revolutionized the whole of europe And the whole of the world And they found it impossible to believe It at the beginning because they Believed there were two-headed men And giants and misshapen creatures Outside europe they didn’t know anything Better that is suddenly found out that There were Generations of people living outside of Europe that have lived and died For hundreds and hundreds of years so Revolutionist And they didn’t lose their faith they Are found on the country they expanded It I have an inkling i don’t know but from The data so far assembled I’ve been i have a feeling that there’s No there are no terrestrial There’s no extraterrestrial life within Our galaxy That may well be i think it’s outside Our galaxy that may well be but that’s Only my own Assessment that’s not i’m not enough First time caller line you’re on the air With Dr malachi martin hi hello uh dr martin Yes It’s uh about five years ago I had a in a weak moment I had a suicide attempt yes Uh it seemed like there were forces

In the house that saved me Uh-huh okay um Where are you sir i’m in uh vancouver Vancouver Okay all right okay now About six months before that we were Doing a bunch of uh Not luigi but the same sort of thing Yeah and it seemed as though there were Forces Yeah and it seemed as though i was saved But I’ve had nothing but bad luck since this Time can you Tell me uh well if you have dabbled in The Ouija board seriously and if you have Dabbled in any At least i’ll count there’s no doubt About that you’re dealing with Occult forces then you may have some Attachments to you that you don’t like Spiritual attachments In your spirit and you want to get rid Of them yes And you want to get a good priest Who can get rid of them for you It’s very hard to get rid of them Yourself But a good priest can do that i am not A i’m not a catholic or that doesn’t Matter It doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter You’re a human being

All right or you’re redeemed by christ Do you like it or not Whether you believe it or not um So seek proper help but that’s right Doctor the nature of suicide Uh what happens to a soul that commits Suicide of Well you know it’s called satan’s eighth Sacrament Suicide uh there are seven Satanic sacraments apparently but the The Suicide is the the Eighth one the what happens Is briefly this that Uh by my own hand I cut myself off from Leading your life according to god’s Will Who is the master of life and of death And by doing that i violate a Fundamental commandment of his Which is do not kill yourself it’s a Fundamental Law in my nature um And i thereby enter the gray area Where i can never see the light again i Can never be with god I can never have happiness And i suffer the torment of being Separated from the one thing that would Have made me Happy with made me beatify Me forever god and his beauty and his

Truth And his heaven what about what about Those people That suffer physical maladies that are Terminal and horrible and simply i know I know simply one out and i i’ve thought About this and talked about it on the Radio As a tacos over many years and my Position was Always sort of whose life is it anyway I’ll be in control of my own life Nobody will tell me what to do my wife Told me doctor Yeah don’t do it even if you’re Suffering You are meant to go through this and if You don’t go through it Something terrible is going to happen so Yeah and those words have wrong in my Ears for years I know i know they ring admire is not That you’ve said them and i won’t forget Them they’ve been said to me on other Occasions by other people For other reasons for the same reasons The I don’t know i really don’t know art and The whole of human history that i have Read and talked about and Inquired into i don’t know of any Explanation Justifying human suffering except the Sufferings of

Jesus christ on his cross if i can Identify With his sufferings uh in spite of my Cancer In spite of my arthritis in spite of my Aids If i have these things um if i can Identify with his sufferings I can merit I guess there is a greater place in Heaven i can marry a greater closeness To god And i know in my soul what i want is God’s beauty and truth so then to Uh avoid it by taking your own life Is to exclude yourself from his that’s Right That’s right now i do not exclude at all I must tell you this much i do not Exclude That for instance if i proceed to take Cyanide or something you know some Some suicidal act i do not exclude that Before i die god can touch my heart and Make me repent of it even though i can’t I can’t undo what i’ve done in other Words uh Redemption always possible even in the Last second but i don’t exclude god’s Mercy but You’re running a terrible risk You know the numbers might not be with You that’s right All right wild card line you’re on the

Air with dr malachi martin Good morning yes thank you um where are You sir I’m coming from california all right Yeah okay but um Thank you for the opportunity to speak With dr Malachi i had a couple of questions but For the first time i was very concerned About something that you said You had stated that um Something about the draining of your Spirit yes that’s right I didn’t i didn’t really understand all Right all right all right uh let’s let’s Try and explain that again in the course Of an exorcism Um your spirit is drained or A piece of you is lost forever is that About right That’s about it you give out something You can’t get back otherwise you You’re no good you’re not effective it’s Like it The love you give your child or your Wife or your husband Or your country or a cause If you really give love you don’t get it Back Does that help you call her well I i i just we’re going to want to humbly Say that That there is that one infinite spirit Of love that is inexhaustible

That’s right that’s right but my uh uh But but the question that i had um um Uh you know in my i’m studying Metaphysics Um and i try to i i do uh Stay within you know the matrix of Of christian principles yes yes i You know but i’ve come to realize that Throughout christendom that there is Much Phenomena to be studied you know um from The appalachian people who handle Serpents and drink poison in the name of Sheriff And glaucola and the churches So your question is well I just wanted him to comment on that and One another question that i had was That um Is not the revelation in your thinking a Prophecy of Math exorcism mass exorcism I never heard of that i don’t think it’s Possible Uh too bad it’s just not possible Too bad because we could use one well We could argue we could but it this is One on one one on one It’s always one-on-one isn’t it it is Finally one-on-one There is such a thing as a demon sharing Several people And you can get rid of that demon and Exclude that and

But it’s not a mass exorcism you’re Still concentrating on one Damn spirit east of the rockies you’re On the air with dr Malachi martin hello uh yes this is Thomas in madison wisconsin yes sir Thomas um it’s an honor to speak to you Uh father martin Thank you very much yes i Just finished reading i just finished Reading your book hostage to the devil And i thought it was one of the best Books i’ve ever read it was fascinating And in one of the chapters you spoke About a professor Who was one of the leaders in Parapsychic development that’s right And after travel that’s right and i was Wondering if That has any connection with what is Widely known now as remote viewing Yes it has and if uh there is any Demonic possession related to remote Feeling Yes there is there is the demonic Position related to it In in the process of doing what these Remote viewers do it Do and it is very interesting doctor Because there was a nightline program Um and it turns out our own Government for 20 years has been Involved In remote viewing oh yeah oh yeah uh

What is a person doing when when they Remote view It’s it’s not exactly an out of body or Is it out of body and They are subject then to all kinds of Things as you are when you open Other doors with ouija boards or Whatever i’ll tell you what it is Art really what is at stake and it’s a Very Volatile it’s like nitroglycerin for the Soul It’s this there are latent Powers in us all Yes i believe that the nazis The nazis in the death camps Seeking to develop the perfect mind Control Developed means of Yeah they found means of developing These latent powers When we conquered germany we imported Not merely physical scientists rocket Scientists like Von braun and the others right we also Imported the doctors who had gone in for Mind control And that some of those mind control Methods were used In the special forces of the usa And they have found that in certain Cases They produce the very traits that you Find in possessed people

But does give remote viewing makes it a Reality And remote action a reality And the the soviets in their day and the Nazis went much better than we ever went We learned from them but it’s highly Dangerous Because you probably heard me say and It went by your ear art and i didn’t Emphasize that i spoke about the middle Plateau The middle plateau i mentioned that once That middle plateau Is the plateau on which evil spirits Work And they use every paranormal And a paranormal power that they can That’s latent in human beings and can be Evinced can be used And it’s very dangerous in volatile it’s The nitroglycerin of the soul It can blow it up and it’s a very Dangerous thing because You let loose you let loose Something amongst human beings as a Group that’s That’s destructive in in the extreme and Or completely immoral there’s no ethic There’s no moral there’s no rule at all No i believe that as well uh i believe That as well but it is real isn’t it Oh gee whiz it’s real that’s the Difficulty about it it is real And i i know people who teach it

So do i but uh Uh no not for me thank you very much i I’m a coward i run I really do art i have nothing to do With it And i want to stay with the devil over The angels you know Circling back you again i i can’t get it Out of my mind there are these people Who have comfortably made a deal and are Living with this deal oh yes oh yes and They They expect to go home to satan oh yes Are there more and more of these people You see them you know them More and more there are more and more Appearing to be there anyway And it’s very hard to get away from the Impression that there are more disciples Than there ever were before of lucifer Lucifer in particular not much said Lucifer Um listen um doctor we are at the end of Another hour Okay um are you are you willing to stay For the final All right back now to dr malachi martin Who is my guest Uh doctor a couple quick questions Before we go back to the phones Um doctor was that movie The exorcist based on a real case i Meant to ask you that yes it was It was it was based on a real case but

It it was it was highly Hollywoodized do you understand me yes Because the reality was very different It was a landmark case actually way back In the 1950s And um it was a genuine possession case Of a young boy They made it into a girl that uh the Exorcist movie itself Yes but it was a landmark case and was Written up Only two years ago was the with the Actual theme the actual history itself Published By thomas allen and he just simply wrote It up As a reporter it’s it’s fascinating i i Believe it was in the st Louis area wasn’t it that’s right it was It wasn’t it The actual telling of this the thing the Real The history of it is much more Fascinating than the book It’s much more fascinating it’s an Amazing thing But it’s a it’s a landmark case was There a loose Uh connection to the real case yes it Was There was a loose connection but it’s Very loose altogether And nevertheless i i shall never forget The end of that movie you mentioned

There was a case Of somebody going out a window that’s Right that was Where was that that was in washington dc That resulted in a death yup This is equivalent to defenestration A doctor there was um there was another Movie that i saw once Uh called the seventh sign i never saw That one No uh it it doesn’t matter it talked in The movie About the guff uh the place from which Souls come new souls imparted to new Human beings Born and uh it theorized that One day that guff became empty And there were no more souls and it Began the end of all Is there an endless supply of souls Well put it like this god can go on Creating souls as much as he likes In that sense there’s an endless supply But they’re not just hanging around Someplace Like in cold storage waiting for bodies You know that’s a bit of fancy yes no Doubt It’s a bit of a sense all right well This following is not fancy it’s awfully Serious We’re drawing a lot of serious comments And i’m going to read this to you and Get your reaction sure

Dr martin i’ve recently been fighting Suicide Yeah i was at a point where i gave up on Life because of my sexuality Yeah i’m gay i’ve known that for a long Time and have never wanted to be that Way I once gave up and came close to suicide And tried to invite forces Toward me that would help me attain the Goal now however I don’t want to die but i find myself Being compelled To this route very often i feel Something is pulling me to kill myself How do i deal with it i know the Catholic church condemns homosexuality But am i really as evil as these forces That are driving me to kill myself how Do i overcome it The answer is that he you are not as Evil as these forces would have you Believe And the persuasion that you are evil is Merely a means of getting you to despair And say what’s the point Let me kill myself uh you need A good confessor you need a good advisor As well as a perhaps some therapy but Therapy won’t cure this It’s a question of asking god’s mercy And getting it And getting up solution for sins and Starting the

Long process of cultivating friendship With god It can be done and the good priests will Help you And there are good priests all right um On behalf of a lot of people out there I’m going to ask this If uh if someone wanted to try to ask You father a personal question is there A way to do it uh by writing to you Or is there a i know you have a web page I have a web page but perhaps they want To make it more private than that in That case They can address a letter to me at the Following address 217 east 66th street New york new york one zero zero two one That would be confidential i may never Answer but i usually answer all my Letters And that’s going to be a chore that’s Going to be some chore that’ll keep you Busy But uh 217th 217 East 66th street near new york one zero Zero two one That’s right all right in addition you Do have a web page and I i presume somebody could send you Email yes they can all right that web Page Is linked on mine so a lot of my Audience will know

My web page you can go there and link Immediately to uh Uh dr martin’s on the first time caller Line you’re on the air hi Yes i’m calling from honolulu uh hawaii Yes My name is a member of the russian Orthodox church I uh hello father uh hello father how Are you Very good i um uh we’ve been hearing an Awful lot Uh i’m a member of the russian church Abroad which is old calendar and Very opposed to the ecumenical movement Document uh accepting uh basically was Against the Unionism but uh yes a mutual acceptance Of Both the roman church and uh and the Eastern church of sacramento uh Both ways and our the patriarch of Constantinople as you well know is Is uh trained uh at the oriental Institute By the jesuits in rome that’s right i Was wondering if you have any insight That both he And pope john paul have both expressed That Their desire is for the church to unite The two the two as they say called the Two lungs of uh the body of christ Tonight by the year 2000 what insight do

You have in this Well i’ll tell you father i didn’t get Your name follow what other seraphim Father seraphim for the serpent i wish i Had better news for you in this matter I can tell you exactly where we stand in The matter but bartholomew and both Bartolomeu And alexia of moscow but talking about Bartholomew as the head of the Uh of constantinople the church um I have both stressed that At the present moment there is no in There’s nothing in sight There’s no union in sight for the simple Reason that Basic questions are so outstanding That unless there was a miracle Overnight we have no solution To the problem of jurisdiction there’s Great good will there’s no doubt about That and i expect From the therefore that within a few Years we will have General permission to communicate each Other I think we will have de facto at the Present moment Uh there are greek orthodox that share Catholic communion and Catholics that share greek orthodox can Be correct with The the with the connivance and the Agreement of local priests

And local bishops too right that should Be done Though officially by the heads of author Of projects And the head of the roman catholic Church we are pretty far from that I think between you and me the father Therapy might rather be realistic about It How does the uh how does the pope see The uh the balamon document uh which Which Well but but did uh did Accept um on on the united unilateral Basis it didn’t accept the Validity of both churches and their Sacrament oh it did and By the way we didn’t even need that Document because we have always accepted The validity of orthodox sacraments by God And my friend says i when greek orthodox Are dying and they have a catholic Spouse or a catholic That i absolve them with the greek Priests we both work together Um doctor uh i’m Layman’s question for me uh and we deal With this all the time on the air Sure um over all of human history So many men have killed so many men In the name of their creator that’s Right They have we know that we know that

We’re just coming to this realization But we still do it You know to a large degree yes we do We still do it and it is an aberration Uh i mean you had for instance in the First world war and the second world war You had the example of french chaplains Chaplains to the french armed forces uh Invoking god’s grace for victory over The germans And you had on the german side german Chaplain invoking god’s help For germans over travel victory over the French You know i mean exactly i mean you know It’s It becomes a certain stage ridiculous And it’s counterproductive Uh so this is a stage through which Religions have gone and I think they are now getting to the Stage of saying it’s all foolishness There’s no such thing as as god Sanctifying Killing Slaughter that’s what i that’s what i Always thought and i think that has Moved Many away from faith it sure has and it Has Disaffected many catholics and many many Believers Both jewish and muslim and christian and Catholic

All right this affected them and uh it’s Our own fault It’s our own fault it’s not god’s fault I suspect much yes indeed i suspect much Of what occurs on earth is Uh free will and all that sure western Rockies you’re on the air with dr Malachi martin hi Ah yeah good evening art good morning i Guess good morning everybody Uh bob from pocatello above Thank you yes sir good morning father at The art we thank you for getting some Balance In your show and uh glad it pleases you What is your question Well yes father malachi thank you very Much i I i’m not of your faith but uh that’s Always you believe in god Understood and uh we uh we according to Scripture give thanks for the For the good works of of all men and i’m Sure i agree Did you feel that uh essentially that People uh i know i i got a book Uh written by a man named courtney brown Which uh Uh who was a guest on art show and and Read it and in that book The question is this and let me throw The question out before i Give the background are people sometimes Deceived

In in believing uh They are following uh truth and light When it when they might not be and Let me give you for instance in that Book he said that the good spirit that He That he thought was christ was a Translucent being But at the same time he said the purpose Of his visitation to this Man was to write the book and at the Same time he renounced the time of Christ in there the time Or the name of jesus and i wonder if If you could expand on that as to as to Why the name of jesus is there’s no Other name under heaven wherein man Mankind might be uh might be glorified Yeah well i’ll tell you the The only thing is that uh christianity Holds there was one savior Uh his name was jesus he was born in Nazareth he died in calgary And uh he was the son of god And that in his name uh All men can be saved all men and women Can be saved to to To be expensive as being moderners are Now although all men But the point is that that’s the Essence of christianity uh And there’s no other name In there’s no other name given to us as The

Then of the savior the universe will Save you who is god and man I’ve got as much light as i can a Question that has always bothered me and Maybe you can answer it Um if i understand uh correctly Yeah a child that is not a christian Uh who becomes an adult and dies uh Without christianity Yeah uh may not go to heaven may not Uh may well go to heaven too it all Depends on It all depends on the child’s will what He what He or she does with her will Uh approach like this not crudely but Put it as bluntly as possible But if a good muslim Or a good jew or a good mormon or a good Buddhist Lives their life according to their Light As best they can If they really avoid sin And they can get the grace of going to Heaven but that grace comes to them Through jesus even though they don’t Know him Under the impression that with one is Not baptized No that’s not so it’s not so that’s not So the equivalent of baptism The cleansing of sin and therefore the Being pleasing to god can take place

Through the grace of christ There are many paths there are many Paths the only thing is That it’s difficult to avoid sin It’s difficult to be a good man a good Woman It’s difficult the grace of god is Necessary And how many men and women achieve that God only knows but they’re not excluded From him just by Not being christians they can get the Grace of christ By living their lives as they should all Right That’s a good answer uh east of the Rockies you’re on the air with dr Malachi martin hello Uh good morning art and our father Martin good morning sir Uh uh first of all i’d like to say uh Uh what what Is that a man like you that oh I’m sorry i’m just trying to be Complimentary where are you sir I am calling from valparaiso indiana all Right You have a question uh yes uh i’ve had a Problem since i was a child And it has to do with what i consider in The harassment category Yes they seem to be Wolf spirits and yes And i’m wondering if you have any type

Of familiarity With these type of uh things i’ve had a Recent experience but i can spare you That if you don’t have a lot of time Well that depends on art really he’s the Boss of the time here The but i’ll tell you something this is Not an unknown thing It’s you’re not telling me anything new Okay And it can be dealt with a wolf spirit What does that mean doctor Well it means that some demon Is taking the form of a wolf that’s all It means Is that is that already mean oh yes that They take the form of wolves or dogs or Uh snakes when i was a child i used to Watch the late late show and i was very Frightened by uh like wolf man movies And things like that do they take Advantage of beers Or those of course they do but there Must have been some I don’t know your history so we have the Time but i There must be something in your Background either Generational or your parents or yourself I don’t have friends That’s still there foreign One quick thing uh a person that claimed To be a seer Had had said that there was a person

That was with me and i And when i was at the place that she had Said that There was nobody with me and they said She said that this was a Large person could that have been a Guardian angel and that’s the only other Question that i have it could have been A gorgeous angel but By this time the guardian angel should Have announced himself Is is fear an open door it’s what Is fear yes it is an open door it is an Open door surely you cannot go Into a room to perform an exorcism with Fear that overcomes your ability to deal With the fighting Now to my guest dr malachi martin in Manhattan where i suspect the sun is Probably beginning to come up Well it’s not quite up yet there’s a Little bit of rain and rain clouds here I see but it’s still it’s a good morning Though Not one of the three not one of the Three days of darkness somewhere Just to be good old american rain You know and it’s it’s probably the tail End of some Of some hurricane or something out of The atlantic All right it’s still life is good life Is good life is great doctor A couple of facts questions you do

Possessed people Tend to cluster together or associate With each other yes they do Are there people in high government Positions Uh such as mayors councilman uh even Presidents Uh national leaders in your view who are Possessed I have known leaders without saying at What level Municipal state or several who I have known who were possessed yes I don’t say which country even but yes Certainly are there things um A father that in the course of a Exorcism uh have occurred that you Would not ever talk about publicly Yes there are there are things Connected with somebody’s personal shame Things that are very derogatory To a country or a race And then a third category of things Which are forms of blasphemy And that hurt you to know That hurt you to know even to know it Hurts you yeah I understand yeah it hurts you to know It so i I just know i wouldn’t tell anybody First time caller line you’re on the air With the Dr martin hello yes hello uh where are You please

From tahunga uh reverie california yes Okay Um good morning doctor good morning art Good morning to the world really That’s right i um i’m wondering whether Or not a person can be possessed First part of this question and not have Any fear Does that mean it’s because yeah fear Not of any fear of what Of anything a virtually Feeling that that from the from the Earliest days of my recollection Of my my walk on the onto One side of the hill or the other has Allowed me to To experience Something that i’ve always had a notion That may be playing with Um the dark side yeah but i but i i I wonder if it’s possible to have a Possession by As you say uh one generation to the next With a with a spirit or or a demon That has to be not considered Really that malevolent someone more like Uh Well you may not you may not consider it So uh the the question is can you be Possessed and be In effect comfortable with that is that Your question yeah something like if i Was actually If my family went back to the

Aboriginals all right Those who are perfectly possessed are Quite comfortable And don’t want to change you’ll be very Comfortable You could have four children and love Your children oh yeah Okay oh yeah oh yeah and love those Things in life certainly yes yes You but you will you’ll hand on Something Because look my friend i will probably Never have the pleasure of meeting you But i know this much that if we were to Meet if you meet anybody If you have some interchange with Anybody even on the telephone Even by this radio satellite we’re They’re linking us now You modify the person morally you’ve Modified me already and i’ve modified You And art has modified me i’ve modified You there’s always We human beings are not machines We receive indelible impressions from Each other Even at a distance and therefore you Influence everybody According to the good or the bad in you And therefore you can’t simply say that I can afford children Love them he says you can but you’re Going to give them something that you

Wouldn’t give them if you weren’t Possessed You understand you understand exactly What you’re being told don’t you call it Yes i do but doctor do you sense I you do do you go by sense or do you go By Uh unknowingly you know or understand It’s a knowing caller that’s not a hard All right um um i i would say to that Person Um just being a layman uh to seek Somebody out eh That’s right that’s right i would Wildcard line you’re on the air with dr Uh malachi martin hello yes is that Myself That’s you okay where are you sir i’m in One actually washington all right And um i had a question but i just was Kind of really thrown off by something Uh the Father malachi is it yes yes pronounce It right Um when you’re talking about um there Are many roads To uh salvation yes is that my Interpreting that right No i i didn’t say that there’s only one Savior Actually i think art said it well uh we Were talking about People not of the christian faith and i Said there may be many paths

Uh but really there is there there is Only one it’s just that it It is possible and the discussion was Centering around whether it’s possible For somebody not Of the christian faith to be saved to go To heaven as we all would wish and the Answer was yes The answer is yes in the way you live Your life and to make it into The correct i might look at her Are making parties are you basing that On a scripture reference No i’m not based on scripture reference Because scripture is not doesn’t contain All the truth i need Okay and based on the teaching of the Church or the catholic church Of the catholic church yes i’m a Catholic priest right i just wanted to Clarify that i was thrown off and i Thought and if you know if there’s Something I mean i don’t mind you believe whatever You want no problem at all well you Should you should really mind what i Believe I really mind what you believe too i Want you to believe the truth and i want You You want me to believe the truth well i Guess maybe i you know whatever You’re not indifferent to my salvation I’m not indifferent to your salvation

I want you to be saved and you want me To be saved oh sure Yeah you know i i i i can’t be faithless And say Don’t you like believers like no no no i Want you to believe the truth I said that was great love yeah i didn’t Want to mislead anybody i When i said many pounds i meant uh for Many people Around the world there are it is Possible to achieve salvation without Uh formerly a christian thank you yes uh East of the rockies you’re on the air With dr malachi martin hello Oh yeah i can barely hear you ma’am Where are you oh Yeah i was wondering if uh You know like if you talk to people About god And they get me what that means All right if you talk to people about God and they get meaner or they get Angry What does that mean it does happen all Right Sometimes it depends on the person Though sometimes people may think you’re Just preaching at them and they get Angry they don’t want to be preached at Others because they don’t believe in god And they Shoot away from it and they don’t want To be reminded of it

It can be there can be various reasons Why they get mean And they shouldn’t be mean they should Not get me Uh if there is a particularly violent Reaction Then it might have more meaning might That’s right it might have art yes it Would If it was a particularly violent Reaction And as a catholic i often met that in my Youth There’s much more prejudice against Catholics I get a very valid reaction But people are funny you know Oh they are there was a tv show named That i think west of the rockies you’re On the air with dr malachi martin hi Hello hello hello doctor and art Yes where are you ma’am i’m in southern California Um my question is excuse me what are Your Thoughts about multiple personality Disorder Mpd’s as we call them yes i’ll tell you The Experience i’ve had working with Psychiatrists is that The cases we’ve come across over 50 Percent Are not traditionally called mpd’s

They are question of multiple demonic Possession And how would that be determined which Only by Exorcism by trying exorcism I’ll give you one case concrete case and I’ll do it faster out A okay it’s a woman grandmother Uh engaged in certain rights satanist Rights Affecting the life of her grandchild and Her own daughter And doing it in the name of isabel One of their personalities and then Suddenly switching to hilda And so on multiple personality but We decided that it it it was too Satanist in its tone and we should try Exorcism and having triticism we found There were She was possessed she entertained these Demons Uh doctor is satanism growing Put it like this the incidence of Satanism Both the clergy and the police find Is seems to be on the increase Seems to be yes it’s very hard to know It seems to be Is it that it’s becoming more open more Flaunting We don’t know but certainly the Incidents are much more Much more frequent nowadays

And you you never know it’s very hard to Tell You put that together with an 800 Percent increase in the northeast where You are in exorcism Then it does seem there’s a special Influence now i i should Alright but it it it’s not relevant Perhaps i should tell you the Attitude of the roman catholic church For a long time has been that this is Especially It’s a time of history especially uh In which satan lucifer Has special liberty which will end with The year 2000 But it’s a part of inner catholic law That East of the rockies you’re on the air With dr malachi martin hello Yes this is betty in kansas city hello Hi uh doctor did i not understand you to Say earlier in the program That many of the young priests nowadays Don’t believe in a hell That’s right you know my i am the wife Of a baptist preacher and for years now We have My husband and i have had the theory That Uh so many times we hear the love of god Preached But but there’s no the old-fashioned Hellfire in brimstone i know that that’s

Gone From canada right that’s why we’re in Says travel today i know it is I agree with you ma’am yeah doctor it’s It’s real isn’t it It’s as real as the nose on your face Art And it’s not as beautiful as your notes But Just to make a joke to relieve the Tension Because i shouldn’t be making physical References but it’s an expression in Ireland Where i grew up um and my nose is an Open target don’t worry about it No it’s just it’s it’s like a spins the Nose in your face it’s a famous phrase In ireland they’re all saying It’s as plain as the nose in your face That he of course but Um yes it’s real It’s it’s real it’s too real for words And it’s very very off-putting i don’t Want to end up there Well you know i’m i’ve received i Haven’t read them all But i’ve received a lot of but not a lot A few Angry very angry faxes i’m sure you have Uh how dare you art expose the audience To this Old-fashioned uh put the fear of god in Them hell and fire and brexit

You know people very angry oh they are i Know they’re very angry and as i say My reading of the real really really Really angry ones Is that this disturbs a way of life This manifests a weakness This tells the truth about the way they Live and they don’t like that To be reminded of it enough said west of The rockies you’re on the air with dr Malachi martin hello Good morning art good morning sir where Are you kentucky All right got one real quick question Yeah for dr malcolm would you please Make some kind of A comment or explanation about the witch Of endor and saul and samuel There’s no doubt about it that the Function of the witch of endor Was what we would say as a channeler If you know what channeling is nowadays Oh yes That’s what she was doing and she was Used By satan to Give saul a sense of despair so that he Could commit So he finally did commit suicide the Following day Instead of trusting god when You you speak of channeling uh there are Many means of channeling isn’t the ouija Board just

Another channeling avenue of course of Course that’s what it is First time caller line you’re on the air With dr malachi martin All right good morning good morning uh Where are you i’m in memphis tennessee This is billy hi billy Uh doctor i’m quoting from mark 16. it’s A big familiar passage to you And he said unto them go into all the World and preach the gospel to every Creature He describes in his baptized shall be Saved he believes not shall be damned That’s right And these signs shall follow them that Believe in my name shall they cast out Devils Yes it just said that the uh the Requirement where is there to believe Cast out devils where do you what do you Base your your premise on that you have To be of special authority To catch that devil i’m i i i’m Not saying that you have to be that i I we’ve just had a man talking to us About an hour ago Who has none special authority of any Church but he does cast out devils he Says then There’s no reason to disbelieve him and I’ve known the The the singular case of one or two men And women

Who were able to do it but they’re very Rare in my church The habit has been for a long time for About 1400 years To do it under the authority of a bishop Because the bishop does represent christ Put it this way uh doctor as a normal Course of events you would not ask your Auto mechanic to perform brain surgery That’s right Thank you that’s exactly it all right East of the rockies you’re on the air With dr uh malachi martin hello Yes this is uh scott from woodstock yes Scott Yes i’ve got a question i’d like to ask The uh The father there please yes um The uh the pope that we have now yeah Uh is there any uh comment that he has Made On the uh the one that is to be He is the predecessor in other words Is is he uncomfortable with the next Pope And then after he answered that i got Another question well i i He i doubt if he knows who the next pope Is So he he he uh he couldn’t be Uncomfortable with him you know what i Meant He doesn’t i don’t really know what the Next quote is

Okay one other real quick questions here Please Uh a very good friend of mine here that Lives in the same building that i do We talk about about What you’ve been talking about this Evening or this morning rather Uh there is two particular demons That i don’t know what the names of them Are But he has stated that He has seen one that attacked his wife Very quickly caller In a sexual manner yes there’s one for Man and then one for women What are those names please i don’t know I don’t know i only know the name of two Demons One is lucifer Doctor uh we’re coming to the end of the Program um It has been incredible uh i want to Thank you very much for having me Um i want to thank you very much for Being here it has been absolutely Incredible and Uh perhaps one day we will do it again If not this will certainly stand as Uh the definitive program we’ve ever Done on this subject I tell you all you’ve got to do is to Call me and tell me and i will come to You I’ll do your show again again and again

And again it’s too much of a privilege To expect it but i will do it whenever You are