Art Bell Interviews Malachi Martin (4 of 7)

All right here he is Father Malachi Martin father good morning or good Evening depending on your tarnation That's right time zone we're all over The place you sound very good sounding Good shape up I don't know how you Managed to remain older so chipper uh Well simple I I think it's just like you Father were both doing what we enjoy yes I suppose that is the secret I remember Last man to say that in public was the Jimmy Stewart he said he was paid to do It he loved to do so this is the case of The same thing I suppose Tell me this on your mind you had Something about asking me about my my Background and training and that sort of Business that's right there have been a Lot of inquiries apparently because You're a very public person about your Background and your training and um how You came to the priesthood and what your Current status is so instead of is you Know instead of my reading a bio why Don't you just go ahead and tell us yes I think I bore people always ask me a Question if I'm alpha secured on any Point then the it's quite quite sort of Brief in his own way except I'll try and Fill in the details where is necessary To give a better picture be I was born In Ireland of course in Cary in Ireland But way back in 1921 and father I'm Going to ask you to get a little bit

Away from the phone if you would okay What about this much better okay this Question of a location that that speaker Um And I joined Jesuits the Jesuit Order The order of the Jesuits I joined it in 1939 just as war has been declared in Fact I did it three days after we heard Prime Minister Chamberlain of England Declare war on Germany and Germany had Attacked Poland and I remained in Ireland for the duration of the war Because we couldn't get out it was Dangerous to travel and join that time I Got a universities agree in Semitic Languages and oriental art and Archeology and history and After the war I thought I went to Philosophy for three years at the J's of Rigorous training and we went to Philosophy for three years and got a Degree from that then they had me Touched a little boy French and Greek For a couple of years every Jesuit had To undergo that teaching experience Because if you can teach Greek and Latin To little boys who just want to get out Of class you have learned to teach and After that they sent me to Belgium to a Place called Louvre aim where I studied Theology for four years and if I was Ordained priest a member of the Jesuit Order and I spent another three years Getting a doctorate in Semitic languages

Oriental art of archaeology and history And I did a special work published in Two volumes on the Dead Sea Scrolls and I spent a lot of time in the Middle East And studying the actual scrolls Themselves and became an expert in Paleography that is ancient hand right Mm-hmm They all found very boring but it was Very exciting no it's really not boring At all very very exciting and then they Brought me back to Rome to a place Called the biblical Institute that's the Central part of the Vatican which trains Professors of Bible and I became a Professor and with tenure of Hebrew and Paleography and New Testament and Old Testament and of one or two other Languages like Aramaic which is used in The Bible and was the language to which Jesus spoke but I arrived just down the 1957-58 and the old Pope had surely Passed the twelfth da had died and his Successor was John the 23rd and his Great collaborator was a Jesuit called Father bear Augustine bear German Jeffers who lives in Rome had been wrong For a year And he took a shine to me and his room Was just beside mine in the Jesuit house And at that time john xxiii was very Keen and establishing a new relationship With the jewish community So he brought me over to john xxiii

Who was very keen to have some young man I was in my thirties some young man who Was trained in Talmud which I was and in Indigo and the biblical languages Because John was setting up a huge Network of relationships with Jewish Organizations in Europe and in America And then because he was going to hold a Thing called the Second Vatican Council Mm-hmm which met finally in 1962 and Lasted until 1965 left for three years John died in the middle of us in 1963 But his successful politics kept it up And I was functioning all that time but However I had gone to my superiors in 1959 1960 and said look I'm not Satisfied the way things are going and They said why well I said because I Don't I don't I don't agree with some of The policy decisions being made and I Don't agree the way these decisions are Being implemented all right may I may I May I if I can stop you there and ask You are a few specifics what did you Disagree with I disagreed with changes Modernization of the liturgy and I Disagreed also with the general trend in Rome at that Institute was to diminish The age-old tradition about the nature Of Scripture as being the Word of God A dominant school of thought was a Germanic school which held that much of The Bible could be explained as a form Of literature as a form of popular

Miss making somebody's story yeah And that could of course if we were Pushed could affect the central belief That I had as a Catholic of course Namely the divinity of Jesus the effect Of the resurrection from the dead and Hell having a poetry in everything Family because if you begin to throw Doubt on the gospel stories the Historicity of the gospel stories you're In trouble And indeed today many Roman theologians Will not state categorically that the Resurrection of Jesus is a historical Fact they say if it took place but they Won't call it historical fact It's a whole it so it's what's called The higher school of the school of Higher criticism so I couldn't agree With all that and then there were other Disciplinary matters who I thought that They had made the Jesuit Order so Successful was its inner discipline and That was being loosened but everything Was being loosened in those days are There was a spirit sweeping through the Roman Catholic Church and forgot the old Rules of the old discipline but that Resembled a tornado at its height mm-hmm So anyway but so we we would they Decided that all right if you want to go You can go now but I was a gentle with They with four vows there was poverty And celibacy or chastity as you call it

And obedience and then a fourth about Obedience to the Pope there's a special Corps of Jesuits who have that port Power of obedience it really means the Pope can call you in any morning and say Please depart for Tahiti and stay there Do such-and-such receptions and you Can't ask for your ticket Or for your support you just do what the Pope said well see if I've got it right Poverty chastity obedience and a special Vow of the Pope of obedience a special Special vow of devotion uh-huh so I went To Paul the thick Who is the Pope then when I decide was 1964 and he said all right if you have To leave you have to leave I can Dispense you from your vows which ones You want to be dispensed from I said Well I've got to earn my living Holy Father and for that I'll need to not Have a vow poverty because the my vow of Poverty means I can't earn any money to Keep any money and he said all right Under that I shall be with my vow of Obedience because I don't want to obey My superiors any longer and he said all Right I said I want to keep my vow Celibacy because I have the syllabus and I want to remain celibate the vow of Obedience to you will be immediately Automatically dissolved that Canon Law If I leave the Jesuit Order and he said To me well do you want to you want me to

Find you a bishop at the present moment There are almost 2000 bishops in Rome at The council I'm sure several of them Would like to have you in there – if I Said no I don't I don't want to be under A bishop so he said well they won't like It'll be funny really he had a sense of Humor all his own we used to call him el Gufo because he looked like an owl with His face in gufu and they said well they Won't light doesn't know you could knock Whatever bishop we're going to get your Authority prompt I said you will have to Give it to me Holy Father or your Successors by some special arrangement But I I want to be a priest I want to be Celibate I want to write and I want to Have very active in TV and radio and Lecturing and talking and confessing and There's a storm coming over the church Anyway which you yourself always talking About these days and the politics was Always talking about the storm let loose Like a tornado yes and he finally ended Up by saying as you know in public Couple years later the smoke of Satan Has entered the sanctuary of the church We are now invaded Anyway so he talks about that and he Said all right but he said then you what You what you are asking for this As a form which you know of called Laius Ization and he said many people make the Mistake of thinking that a priest like

You who undergoes Laius ization becomes A lame apple and he said as you know That suppose you never never become a Layman once your priest your priest for Ever but their size ation merely Concerns who has authority over you and You want me to arrange it so that no Bishop and no religious superior has Control over you and he said there will Have to make some special arrangements About tests because he said somebody Must have some check on you So he made those special arrangements And there's always somebody in Rome to Whom I refer my life to and discuss my Money with they don't ask money but they Must know what I do with it and they can Always check on what I stayed in public If they don't think it is doctrinally Safe so he said you won't be is he odd Rome is run by ministries they're not Called ministries in the Vatican they're Called congregation's and there's a Ministry or Congregation for the bishops And called the Congregation for bishops And others the ministry or Congregation For Sergi and that's for charity like Priests and so on so forth so uh you are Still a priest oh yes you are simply a Priest now who is allowed write books And derive income from those books That's right I'm not I'm not under any Of the congregation directly because I I Don't belong to a bishop and I don't

Belong to a – so you're a renegade Priest no no no no no no then affect a Lot of people would like it if I were Because writing for all that length of Time and talking to so many people or so Mature so some with so much radio they Would like it if I swung away because I'm really known to be fuddy-duddy Conservative and you know me is that Hard well that I guess I was I was Conferring an honor upon I fully Realized You you're a very conservative a priest And in that sense in light of today's Church you are sort of a renegade that Fight that way in that sense yes that The the sometimes puzzles Catholics Because they used to please who are Either members of religious order or who Are under under a bishop in a diocese And I'm not either of those things and Nobody know congregation in Rome would Claim our Torah see over me but I'm not Alone in this matter now there are well Over a thousand please throughout the Church in the same status as I occupy But it's it's very hard to explain to People because once they hear that You've been less I hope well you're a Lay member but you're not actually a We're not I'm not so in every sense of The word You are still officially a priest oh Yeah

If then there's no doubt about that Whatever the the it allows me a certain Great latitude but it also puts Restrictions on me because I can't back Every politically cause I'd like to back Because their limitations on me for that Mm-hmm I'm not supposed to I don't think Police should be politicking that makes Me want to ask you about your political Views oh yeah I have used of course I'll Have the I be be a dumbbell if I haven't Got our views but to frame one's weight Into a political fight which has Sometimes would love to do i restrain Myself because i think between you and Me I think that the one thing Jesus is Like is politicking clergy because he Said a lot about this day so I think That well I have to frankly wonder about The entire process of politics in other Words to attain high office in this land Today father it seems as though you must Be an accomplished prevaricator it seems To me that you cannot do it with clean Hem I may be to condemn nursery in that Sense although I'm not condemnatory I Hear confessions all day and forgive Sins as the Catholic priest as a human Being but It would seem that you've got to Prevaricate again you have to speak out Of two sides of your mouth you have to Promise knowing you will not fulfill Your promises and you have to pretend

You side with an issue because it's good For you for the election is that is that A sin or or would you say that even a Good man trying to enter the political World to do good things if I would have To do what he has to do to get where he Wants to go to do the good things he Wants to do it's just complicated but I Think it's quite clear what you think Well I suppose if there are limits you Know certain exaggerations are now Allowed which are understood to be Exaggerations in the pond in a Politician's mouth father hold on just a Moment we're at the bottom of the hour And we'll be right back Back now to Father Malachi Martin in Manhattan father I asked as a point in Connection with what we were just Talking about in the previous hour and It's this that you call me father Yes sir and the priests are normally Called father it has become the habit That if you're not called father Officially since I have three doctorates I chose to be called dr. Martin or Father Martin many people have called me As that and there's no difficulty with That acceptances in the archives before I live in New York the Archdiocese does Not want any priest that's not part of The diocese and I'm not part of the Diocese and not to wear clerical and it Will go young caller on the black suit

Yes or not to be called father Officially but I just want to note that A lot of Catholics they meet you for the First time we find out you're please put Sure you're wearing a shirt and tie well If I'm that shocking is it okay to call Your father oh yes good that's what I am And that's where I profess to be good I'm just noting that small point as a Consequence of my the status I sought to Get by politicking clergy yes and about Politics itself it's a very very trying Affair for sole art I think because We've got to make so many compromises Well Yes um and I you know I don't want to Launch into a big political discussion But I'll say this about politics uh There was a day when I discussed it Frequently or even most of the time on The radio and in the last year's father Um it seems like what they argue about And discuss in Washington is more and More irrelevant to our lives me too It seems though to me too it seemed so And if I'm not very interested unless You wanted to discuss some political Problem case situation not me not me Either I really have divided interesting on There I found the majority of my my Fellow citizens of ordinary men and Women are not really exercise the bottle Either they have other problems and

Other consideration and that there's Something new happening anyway out there As we say with the demographers there's Something new happening to men and women There's a new situation in the minds I Don't think the politicians yet have Tumbled to they don't know what's going On um well I would you think I would Join them with that I I'm not sure I Know either I just know we are at the Edge of momentous change yes we are we Are there does a there is a change Taking place and nobody can formulate it Quite accurately yet and I suppose until It becomes a de facto situation encased In laws and in practices and in the Constitutional amendments we won't know What it is but there is a change taking Place and I can characterize it in a Certain way but it won't be a complete Characterization it's very hard to pin It down but there is a change when I Interviewed you father um old G it goes Back a Peter yeah um a year maybe a half A year at least you made a statement That stuck in everybody's mind you said This spring watch the skies try now There was a most remarkable if Over over Phoenix Arizona most Remarkable something gigantic hovered Over that city out to the point where Frances Barwood one of the council women In Phoenix called for an investigation A gigantic hubbub there have been things

Seen all throughout this spring in our Skies that we normally do not see I Wouldn't characterize them as alien Spaceships or Devils or weather Inversions or flares or anything else Something is going on but that were There were these extraordinary phenomena Huh yes well I'm very glad you've told Me that because nobody else did nobody Brought to my attention what I used to Say and it still holds retro actively That if between the end of winter Madison and the end of spring 97 there Were such were such signs in the skies Then that heralded something very very Awesome And something awesome and therefore Fearful in within within say six or nine Months on that time certainly before Winter of 1998 he's there over and Probably before this calendar year 97 Ago and I'm still fair Oh father you Said you worked extensively on the Dead Sea Scrolls that um how much of the Information in the Dead Sea Scrolls is Now not public and and will it ever be And what did the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal Well the answer to the first question Art is very simple and it is a unneeded Statement there was for quite a while Constant rumor being repeated especially In the popular press and that somehow or Other either Roman Catholic priest or Jewish rabbis or Jewish scholars some

Group anyway had found frozen scrolls Certain writings from Wadi Qumran that The place in Jordan now but the original Writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls lived at A place called iron fishka and that they Had these if they reveal to these Documents that they would upset every Traditional view of Christianity and Judaism now we have examined every inch The truth is we have examined every inch Of every Dead Sea scroll every scroll Produced in this scroll array produced By the scribes transcribing them by half There is nothing extraordinary being Kept from the public what is being kept From the public is the publication of All the documents because it takes a Terrific amount of time to decipher them And to print them and publish them and Translate them but nothing has been Hidden by a cabal of scholars Christian Or Jewish And it's a very gives a very false Impression that's the first thing to say That it is all accessible if now is all Accessible and as time goes on it would Be more and more studied and illuminated By scholarship all right there there Then then our large unpublished portions There are the deads he said there Certainly are and then sometimes it's Not so much their large unpublished but Significantly the somethings are small Little scraps for instance only in

Recent years art have we found out that One scrap had said I supposed to boss It's about the size of the palm of my Hand which is certainly from the story And we certainly date from about oh About ten years after Jesus died Jesus died by crucifixion in the 33 but This graph coming from the scroller II In Wadi Qumran the Dead Sea Scrolls Placed the monastery as we call it has On its back a quotation from the Gospel Of st. mark and that is revolutionized Because that shows that the Gospel of St. mark was circulating at that time That would be about the year forty five Of the earth 50 ad and that is Revolutionary that me a small little Fragment and form there are other Surprises to come now there's one thing Which we must keep in mind on as this The soil in Palestine the soil in that Part of the country about the world I Should say this house mainly Israel is The dry soil which preserves things yes And I am certain I will probably be Playing a harp I'm very hopeful about That part of my life but I will be there For that 76 but I think that in time That land is going to yield ancient Manuscripts they will be found by Archaeologists and published and they Will help revolutionize our entire Concept of the Bible for instance our You know we have no pre-exilic copy of

The Bible I mean by that well as you Know the the Jewish population of Palestine were led into exile in the Year 594 by King the baka da Rosa that Was the Exile to Babylonia we have no Copy of the Bible dating from before That time no pre-exilic copy I am Certain there are pre-existing copies so It's like the missing link that's right And it's a painting the further we get Away from those events way back 2,000 Years ago 2500 years ago 3,000 years ago the more we find out About it is the inversion of history so That is coming now there about the Significance of the scrolls themselves They confirm everything we know about Judaism There's nothing in them which is Specifically Christian at all at all at All at all there's nothing specific Lee Christian and you know Jesus when he was Taken prisoner one night that before he Died he was being interrogated and the The one of his interrogators said to him What have you been teaching in the Streets well what's your doctrine and he Came back very strongly Jesus never Turned the other cheek by the way ever And at that same interview by the way Somebody struck him across the face Summary spoken he didn't turn the other Cheek he turned on the man and said why Did you hit me hmm I've done something

Wrong faithful if I didn't what why have You hidden play me he Jesus office of The accusation that he was teaching Doctrine said I'm sorry I have never Taught and then he used the expression In Aramaic and in Greece we have it in Greek which is normally translated as in Secret my thought would be the RMA but Persaud is the term used in the Dead Sea Scrolls the official documents of the of The group of people who were there to Indicate their special meetings they are Professional gatherings so what he was Telling the the his interrogator was Look there are those fellows out there By Wadi Qumran and the revolutionaries Racines and those elif's and they are Your enemies because they're Revolutionary I don't belong to them I don't teach in their gatherings I Don't frequent them so there are traces That Jesus knew about it like that in The New Testament few know how to read It but there's no in the Dead Sea Scrolls themselves there's nothing Specifically Christian at all there's a Lot though can be learned about the Times in which Jesus lived and what People believed and I could spend the Next three hours of going through the New Testament pointing out where there's An incident between Dead Sea Scrolls and The Gospels But that's not really relevant for the

Moment all right um I want to ask you About about something very recent on the Horizon father um there have been a Number of people there's a new book out By a mr. Joslin called the Bible codes And while I have not interviewed mr. Dresner I have interviewed a man called Stan tenon yeah and he has for 30 years Been working on the ancient Arabic yes Um and claims to have this is very Interesting to have deciphered Yes indeed a code in the Bible in Ancient Arabic I'm Aramaic I got a thank You and of the bet and he claims a most Fascinating discovery that these codes Translate into geometric patterns that Are if viewed actually allow for example In Genesis 1 to enter a state of Experiencing not just what is written in Genesis but what actually occurred it's It's most intriguing I must leave that book out I haven't Read it yet also that and then he claims Of course that some people have not come Out of the experience as whole people Anymore and that only those who are the Most pure are able to have this Experience anybody can have it but not Anybody can come out of it but totally Sane to raise I didn't know that I must Look at that book and I was wondering I Guess have you heard about the public Record about it or at the code Bible Coach I've heard about it and the data

Has always been a tendency not more than A more than attempt it has always been The habit especially amongst Jewish Scholars how mudak experts to read Though their words of the Bible which is Mainly Hebrew but some Aramaic but Mainly ancient Hebrew to read them in Such a way that they can a double Meaning out of it and the more Found meaning them simple meaning we Take from the historical parts of the Bible there's no doubt about that until This part of you heard about an art Called Demetria Demetria no what is that Demetria is actually if word used in the Talmud the Jewish childhood but it comes From the Greek word geometry but if Gematria is the use of the letters of Words say in the first line of Genesis Is Bereshit bara Elohim I invert Aris in The beginning God created heaven and Earth yes but they take each letter and They give it a value a numerical value Yes and they translate those numerical Values into other words more profound Than the bare statement in the beginning God created heaven and earth it's called Demetria and B sometimes the the results Are astounding There really are astounding and do you Consider it impossible father I consider This as possibility if you know Something did happen you find

Confirmation of a single maitreya but It's really a confirmation new Revelations about God new revelations About the evolution of mankind new Revelations about God's nature about our Destiny and about holiness about the Entire question of religious belief no I Don't consider it reliable you must have It beforehand but commit RIA does Provide a confirmation there are books Published on this and that you have to Do math very well and you nowadays you Must be able to use a calculator because You've got to run off your calculator The value of a word well the the man who Published the work called the Bible Codes drownin claims that it is Predictive that it is prophecy I find that explanation far less elegant Than mr. Tenon's which is that the Geometric patterns produced by the bible Codes actually allow one to experience What is generally written in in the King James Version for example uh and that's Very elegant explanation indeed and if True I I can't say it's something I Could try because I'm not nearly pure Enough to try it but nor me and all I I Do not feel that either then it goes Against I'm not that I couldn't do it From the point of view of doctrine Because I don't believe that that's the Way I'm supposed to find God I'm Supposed to find my belief I have a far

More what I would call an objective norm That's not to attack anybody as Subjective but the difficulty is this Art that if I'm allowed set up rules of Interpretation which I choose Arbitrarily arbitrarily because I'm just One single person and with that I find Out that I can predict such and such and Such and such first of all people must Wait to see are those predictions Fulfilled yes otherwise it's a fake and While I'm waiting I still am hanging on The subjective interpretation of one Single individual and that I find very Shaky Especially if I'm seeking guidance for Concrete decisions should I marry this Woman should I have children should I Invest in this business should I believe This it's a shaky basis for concrete Decisions I have to make is it honest of Me to to conclude fashion such a deal You know and I need time I'm a moral Being and I can be very immoral if I Haven't got guidance indeed all right Father uh hold on we'll be right back to You and father yeah this August again I'm going to remind you Stay a little bit away from your phone If you would that better know infinitely Yes sir I'll do that Religiously I hope religiously father This October I'm going on a trip which Is going to take me to Rome I've never

Been to Rome I've never been to the Vatican and I'm going to go to the Vatican what should I see Oh that provokes an awful lot of Thoughts in my mind art um and on falou Between you and me let me provide you With one or two names to go and see when You do go there oh and if you to give me Your dates but I will talk to you Separately about all that all right all Right but apart from that completely There is so much to be seen there that My one main advise you is to make a Choice beforehand Because you can't stay there forever as A matter of fact I only be in Rome for Two days well then in two days certain Things you can see and are worth seeing And that we pay the the time put into it You can see st. Peters and you can see The Vatican Museums the main museums in One day less than one day in one good Outing organized by some agency there Are many good ones in Rome and there are Many good ones here they're organized in Rome for you now if I were to use your Name that would not get me into the Secret archives would it well if you use It with us a certain man whose names I'll give you yes oh my visit there it's A fantastic thing do you know there are Seven miles beneath the surface of Rome Seven our secret archives that you enter This thing and when you enter it the

Light goes on and as you move through it Down along the passageways the light Behind you goes off and the light ahead Of you goes on oh well it's a fantastic Thing all the fantastic affair what I Would give to be able to see that so you Can you can see it all If with you you can in a short visit Though you just look at it and you pass On because you haven't got the time Right I'll tell you can see it and then There are these other parts of Rome Which should be seen but the main one Would be the peter's basilica and some Of the main vatican museums because There may be you've never seen such Magnificence and such art well I'm Looking forward to it oh it's a Marvelous thing it's simply marvelous And Rome has a or out which exists no Place else and they say Nancy Partha via Roma and nobody ever leaves Rome much You've been there it's true but before You go I must know your date and temper Fie I mean before you go wrong um oh and II die I will let you know I'll be in Rome actually I believe October 2nd October 2 well no that's wrong now I let Me get back to you on that actually it Weakens architect early but we have all The time all right here's a fax I want To read you we're going to get down to Some hard stuff here dear art I'm sure The good father would agree that belief

In God must come from one's own faith Then it would would it not be true that Faith is necessary for one believed that Demons also exist I personally believe That his God meaning yours father where Any God does not exist To me it's all a fairy tale so would my Non belief of the angel and demon God And devil heaven and hell Dogma mean That I am one whose body cannot be Possessed and if so what does that say About that particular theology so I Guess number one would somebody of his Sort be somebody whose body could not be Possessed no no his body can be Possessed that his belief or disbelief Is no guarantee his body it won't be Possessed or can't be possessed but that Doesn't mean it will be either it's the Profile we try to create the profile of The possessor A person art with Travis in 1970 and There is no profile there is no profile Was a random thing happening ribs for Good evil male/female homosexual Heterosexual educators are educators it Doesn't make any difference that that's Not the norm apparently we don't know What the norm is it looks to us like Completely random choice because I have Art between you and me and the Holy Spirit I know very naughty people too in New York I mean people who who have Morals that I can't share

I know mafia people I've come across my Share of these people in many walks of Life but they're not possessed they just Play naughty You know how actually it's a very good Question there are as you point out many Naughty people as a very kind word how Do you delineate between the very Naughty and the possessed well the very Naughty are usually terribly honest About their not in us a high-class call Girl who is simply a prostitute will Tell you on say when she lets her hair Down but she is that mafia soldier who Is on vacation over here from the west Coast because they he's done something Over there Newseum he's in retirement For the moment over here exciting people I know they'll explain exactly what Happened in fact one of my first context As a priest in in in New York was with a Mafia soldier who had been shot up and Needs absolution and anointing were Flavors going to die but that's one kind The other kind the possessed kind is Something very different and then the Vase vase the various stages of Profession there's very different thing The phenomena is different the behavior Is different the things surrounding them Are different the atmosphere the smell The behavior the look the language Father does possession come upon a Person slowly in stages or does it come

All at once slowly and in stages it's Like any Like any addiction it becomes princess We're dealing now with a new generation Art really there are always 20-somethings or thirtysomethings they Fueled 40 but they're in the twenties And thirties and they're the situation Is generally the same as the young man Who came to me about 15 years ago and Said look father I wanted such and such And such such and such themselves and I Made a pact with the devil I said to if You really are Satan and if you have Power give me this and he said I got it Now he say he won't let me go and he did It slowly and then I in Quadrant two how It happened and he his mind got used to The idea of asking for help and for Really a leg up and he got the leg up in Various places accreted tremendously in His in his in his profession and then he Found that his mind was locked and his Will was locked and he wasn't free he Wasn't treated love and it wasn't for You the truth and finally about some Free to die father there are many people Who have at one time or another let it Cross their mind yes ah let me have this Let me succeed in this let me do this And I also my soul whatever yeah now how Does one know whether one actually has Made a pact with the devil or one has Just had a fleeting horrid little

Thought that went away no it's a very Good question there's this art and those Two will this happened we'll know Exactly what I'm talking about there is This lock they find on their will on the Will and there's the control of their Mind which they lose it's not that they Go all hairy or they lose it as we say Over but it is that they find that their Mind is restricted in certain ways and Their will They cannot do certain things they Cannot exercise compassion they cannot They can't desire certain things they Can't really desire their wife other Husband if it's a woman is in question It's the peculiar lock on the will and That's generally what sends them the Ones that are saved since I'm running For a priest or a negresses what happens In some cases is that they go further Into it and are completely programmed And controlled well and then you have Perfect possession out of which I have Never seen any person emerge never ever I haven't seen them I'm only 70 so it is It is not sir the the classic possession That we all recall from The Exorcist About that but a more perfect it's a Perfect position the classical form is The person who makes themselves very Obnoxious in their behavior and they Really like a child when a child is Hungry an infant – can talk they bang

Their heads on the ground they turn Around they protest and say I'm hungry Or I'm dirty or I'm thirsty that's one Form that something can be done about That when they're perfectly possessed They don't ask for any help and they They they issue any help and you can Only how many people father do you think Are in that condition let's just talk About America right now forget the rest Of the world um on a percentile basis or A minimal crowd a minimal set of people By minimal what'll I mean well we are 260 million isn't it or something like That Yes I'm trying to make a proportion Between the the number I've known and The general population I suppose about About 10 million 10 million if I if I'm In my mind I'm The proportion of people have been with In this whole field well here's a tough Question for you huh would we would we Generally if we could see these 10,000,000 people would we find that They are powerful successful the wood None of them are obscure none of them Are failures None of them without respect and means a Lot of them are in high places and as Charles the second said about his Ministers the higher the goal the higher They climb the lack of their bonds get But that's the very worst possible

Scenario for the world these are the People who are shaping policy Well that is difficulty that we do find The those in charge of things when you Do but I've seen I've seen the following Take place in a certain bureaucracy Which I won't name but of very Well-known bureaucracy of a worldwide Nature not merely American people by People people by men and women of Ordinary means Some of them Hindus some of the Christians some apple juice some of them Nothing at all but with a natural what I Had no for want of a better phrase Silica virtue isolating somebody who is Obviously perfectly possessed and Getting rid of them because somehow Rather they they just everybody agreed With the consensus that this person and Was in alliance with something that Militated against our best thinking and Human beings I've seen that happen I'm Not trying to religious motive either Just I mean consciously religious motive So I'm saying that they felt Uncomfortable in the presence of this Person and yes also saw that the Direction of their actions and decisions Which they had power to take within the Bureaucracy was evil humanly just Humanely just humanely I've seen that Happen but yes there are people in very High places as well as in normally high

Places who are properly possessed There's no doubt about that and they Will never be saved as far as my Experience in life goes art I don't Touch God's grace or God's greatness God's power but neither do I doubt or Belittle the power of Lucifer because he Is the prince Satan is something else As you know that's not the same being They lose for a different one from the Other but I don't belittle the power of Lucifer he is the prince of this world As Christ called him and he has his he Has his kingdom and that the present Moment he reigns supreme in the middle Plateau Well if Lucifer has all of these Perfectly possessed people yet uh that Are in effect in league with have made a Deal with him right then why does Lucifer from time to time do this Horrible thing and possess the otherwise Totally innocence who have not asked for In any way um any sort of deal with him Well nobody is prevent against their Will you always say yes even the semi Possessed even the object which is a Stage prior to our profession they say Yes you are never possessed against your Will you never obsessed against your Will you open a door and you say well Who are you or put a foot in let me look At it or it's partial invitation mm-hmm

And at the but what must be stressed is That this doesn't happen to everybody Who's just barely naughty the other I Use the word naughty to cover all sort Of human malefactions I'm sure but it Doesn't follow it's a random thing as Far we're concerned but there's one more English we must suppress and it's it's Not a cause for pride on our part but it Is that Lucifer it can be intensely Stupid as Satan can also as all demons Can be they're extremely limited in the Knowledge they don't know everything They're not all-powerful in fact they Have really been conceded certain powers By God and that is one of the mysteries Of this creation why the evil spirits Have been given power but that they have And that they reigned supreme on the Middle plateau there's no doubt about That Father I recently saw a movie called the Craft I don't know whether you've ever Seen it I've heard about it uh it is About four young women uh who decide They will call upon dark spirits to do Their bidding i it's quite well done Calling on dark spirits from north south East west yes um it's a horrifying movie Uh and to back it up I've interviewed on A number of people who suggest that Young teenage girls particularly young Teenage girls and uh are powerful uh That they frequently have things occur

Around them where poltergeist problems Have occurred Ah they've occurred around young teenage Girls now you have these four girls Actively seeking out the dark forces to Do their bidding is such a thing Possible okay and there's an everyday Occurrence in our experience as Something everybody does it or a lot of People do it but as far as happening art It's an everyday occurrence Back now to Father Malachi Martin Bible By the way father on WABC radio in New York the big one there in New York is Having discussions with us presently About possibly getting on the air there The Big Apple and for two Saturdays Recently we sent them Hymns that we had done in the past which They ran from I think midnight five O'clock in the morning and one of those Programs was one of the ones I had done With you oh thank you very much um so You were heard widely there in your own City not shot um At any rate I considered it one of the Best and so we sent it along and they Ran it I thought you'd want to know I Certainly did do and thank you so much I Can't all right uh father is Magic real The best answer the most accurate answer Is yes there is a magic there is a Magical system which is real yeah all Right as an example again I refer to the

Movie the craft yes in that movie it Showed there was a dispute between a Couple of the young ladies one grabbed a Hinkle hair from the other and they Began doing these these dark spells Right and in the movie this girl who had Had this magical spell cast against her Began to lose all her hair began falling Out that kind of magic father a real Tangible things that can be done to Other people yes that can be under Certain conditions can be real and Defective and horrible no doubt about it It can be so it can be in effect for Stood off from one person to another Using using dark forces yes under Certain condition under special Condition and what we want to outline Those but in general it is that both the The Hector Bela the person doing it Somebody else must have an arrangement Being lead with yes have a pact with yes Demonic forces and the person affected Must lack protection because we all need Protection and what protection There to put it in a human language with On this this level of understanding art It is the arrangement whereby I at least In general my life trend and then the Way I behave I follow the dictates of What I call my conscience which is Really my annual because we all are find An angel to protect us because from on This again in in this context there is

Always there is always danger of being Attacked by demonic forces either Directly or indirectly and we have an Angel a guardian angel we call it for Him or her There's no sex involved but we so we we Use him or her or it and we always have An angel who can protect us if we Forsake that angel and the general trend Of our life is in the very opposite Direction then we are liable there's no Doubt about that I can't tell you I have One whole file one full filing cabinet Full of letters from people who are Victims of that you are now 76 that's Right 76 years old che out truthfully alka 76 On July 23 on the 23rd oh my arm When I when I talk to your secretary yes Are the other day she said you were at The time we talked at an exorcism that's Right you're still doing exorcisms oh Yeah that the present moment is usually Directive that is that I'm in charge of An exorcism I'm not usually doing it Myself I don't need to because there are Two or three going on at the same time And I decide what must be done interview The people and a Highness and then Observe and the time step in To correct something it goes on Continuously because they they since I Started his work in the United States The best bar since 1970 it's now 1997-98

Coming into it yes I the amount the Incidence of possession and their fourth Exorcism has increased between 750 to 800 percent Wow Enormous and this is only in the Northeast corner art in the northeast Corner um the increases and then the Amount of Colvin's that have sprung up Genuine : yes is enormous um when you Say a coven would that be for example Wicca if there are Wicca covin these are Covin as a general term for a group of People who are linked together by one Main point adoration and service of Lucifer and are you know many people Involved father in Wicca will tell me Constantly that they are not of the dark Side Yeah those those are white wicker as They call it and its really nature Worship and that sort of business you Know it's it's innocent in that sense as Its it's a reversal to the gods of Nature and because it comes with nature As such and the backcourt has its own Liabilities as regards belief in God Itself in God himself but the other Weekend I know I know the chief the Chief Wiccan in LA out a very Respectable lady and she holds classes Teaching people are to be how to enter Wicca wise with that they will have Nothing to do with any other form but That's not what we're talking about

Really it's a nature worship and A lot of people are in this many many Who are in our image because of Disillusionment with religion Judaism Christianity Catholicism here says Materialism You know them in they've had it Up-to-there as we stay with a former Religion therefore they find this Consoling and they love animals and That's abysmal never have sacrifices of Little animals dogs or cats or birds or Horses ready to attack it's a nature Worship and the it's the see if we use The word paganism it has connotations For the day for the year that are sort Of bad you know these are what the Ancient Romans of ancient Greeks and all Those people practiced is it as Dangerous for one soul as even the Darker forms of Wicca no no no is it not And I've met many Wicca people who are Led out of it by sheer devotion to Nature and by finding out that the Beauty and the truth around them must Mirror some greater beauty greater truth More permanent beauty and truth Elsewhere and that God but it all Depends art is very hard to given to Truth and accurate arms of your question Because it all depends on what graces Have been offered you have got entered Your life and have you refused him to Understand me have you rejected an

Invitation from from God all right Father I don't feel I've ever had one Eye I don't doubt a creator however I Have no tangible proof and I am the kind Of person who has a very difficult time Believing in that which I cannot prove And I'm constantly striving to prove and To learn through every avenue I can Manage some of them probably very less Worthy than you can imagine but I am Constantly searching and looking and yet I've been unable to make that leap of Faith and I don't know That I've ever received a specific Invitation how does one know well I'll Tell you somebody is said it's it's a Way of entry into this Zambia said that If I say to you and I'm not me and You're not out there So we're two mythical people but if I Say to you look I want to love you at The beginning of love at the beginning Of love if I say I'd love to believe in You it's the beginning of belief you in Fact in there's no Jewish theologian or Christian theologian who would dispute The fact and if you say that it means That integration itself it's racist to Say the words available other than one Otherwise you'd be feckless you wouldn't Bother you wouldn't bother your head you Regard it all as as a people of nonsense Garbage and there's this about it to art There's this about it also that you can

Be drawn along for decades I the wish That one could get Grace and one doesn't Apparently consciously mentally Rationally and all the while you're Getting grace because grace is something Of which you're not conscious they're All doesn't come upon you as a slow Stage possession what that's right the Path and it comes upon you in this that When you find that for instance the Fires in you that would have a once upon A time tended you to less good actions Tended you to less pure motives that Limited your original fits of anger of Lust of going on these subtlety we find Those fires dying down and certain As if except entering your inner being Then there is something taking place but Is that not a natural progression of age No no no no no no natural experience Teaches me and I'm long enough at it but On the contrary in my native language Gaelic adul Anisha because the dona moça Is a famous phrase getting older and Deeper into sin and if the older you get The worth you get another astrally it's Not to wait his art people do not mellow And mature and get gentle and calm and Compassionate on the contrary they don't Except some people do well maybe there Is some hope for me because I really Hope those things are occurring to me Those things you described as I rolled Or are occurring to me I know they are

And what what God must do in your case In my case and every place well he wants Them He must purify the rust in you whatever Erroneous terror erroneous thoughts you Ever had whatever excesses you could we Committed when we were younger and more Stupid We are the present moment Oh believe me There were many for me oh well we'll Have them there's no human being who if They're honest Doesn't say the same thing but the Difference is the difference between the Men and the boys is that well is that You know somebody is certain it's true Between the ages of 35 to 55 or 65 It's a corridor of youth and at the end Of that and towards the end of it we Begin suddenly so we allow certain Lessons we have learned if the grace of God is working and if he God God has no Form we say he because that's the way The Bible speaks that's where we talk in Human language we have no neutral words In our English language any way to Express his existence but he draws us Along gently I think until finally he Can perfect it before we die So the We die we go to him and not as well good Here's the facts in I have suspected Father Martin that I may be possessed Very subtly for a long time now

How it started is a long story but after Listening to you my suspicion is now Much stronger please tell me if there is Anything to do about this or what it Means for my soul in a long term I'm really scared please help unsigned Of course but now that in this case if He we don't know what religious Denomination this person is with a Christian or Jewish or Hindu does it Matter well it does because of the Things we can appeal to for Understanding if he look you and I now Already from all the talking we've done Together we have a neutral understanding Yes you haven't got to explain your Terms to me at all I know where you're Going with the sentence and you know Generally where I'm going when I'm Talking for the total stranger you have To have some surface of marking you must Know the background by way of education What religious if any ritual they have Followed or been exposed to and what are Their thoughts and then what has Happened in concrete life concrete life Situations with our lives of their Children or their husbands this Particular person what I would say to Them whether they mean something to them Or not they should start saying a simple Prayer and it is to Christ and it is This it's five words hide me in your Wounds and see the effect of that prayer

On them and that they can always write To me necessary oh can you perform an Exorcism on somebody who is a non Catholic or even somebody without Apparent faith sure so you can if they Consent I mean if there's a basic Consent though there's a civil as well As a religious aspect of the service Civil answers you can't do something to Somebody unless you get the content Somebody who is authority over them is It possible to perform an exorcism on Somebody without their consent in other Words a worst case scenario could Somebody literally be tied to a bed or Bound in some way by family members and Have somebody like you called in yeah But you have their prior consent at some Given moment they've said yes There must be something like that Otherwise no other words are perfectly Possessed though you're violating the Civil rights limits on Direction Violating their civil rights yes because I mean if we suspect that Jon X is Possessed if we have strong reasons for Thinking so unless we have John's General consent or his particular Consent and John is is over 18 he's an Adult We just can't aggress him and time down Not in this day and age so you can only Exercise those who are less than Perfectly possessed

There's no exorcism for the perfectly Professional none and whatever the Perfectly possessed you can give them a Bottle of holy water and they'll drink It if they can handle a host a Consecrated host at math or it means Nothing to them you can look on a Crucifix and say oh well that's Romanesque and it probably is ninth Century if you know it'll mean nothing To them ah you said that exorcisms in The northeast of the very least are up 750 to 800 percent that's terrifying uh And what what does it mean to you what's Coming oh it means uh not to put a tooth In it as they say in the English it Means that the prince has a wider Kingdom that he had when we started off In 1970 anyway that means he has a wider Clientele and therefore that see our Tent I don't know if you've noticed it but There's a certain there's a certain Disturbance perturbation of mind this Equilibrium at least a certain Uncertainty in people today there wasn't 20 25 years ago 30 years ago for I have Noticed believe me there is this Peculiar thing this is the demon there Are demons assigned to do this to people And you get up in the morning you feel Lousy and you're discouraged but Everything and there's no reason for You've got money in the bank and your

Wife or your husband are very happy with You the children will help pay more or Less and there's no war arm and always Have to kill you and yet you're Dissatisfied in Envy yet You are empty dry and despondent fears And that means that you're under attack That means that they want also to affect Your spirits so that you spread the Satisfaction and you spread discontent Spread unpainted and that's why we all Love somebody who when they come into a Room the light comes wisdom Life and peace and joy of some kind of Robert it's me and you know that person When you're in their presence exactly It's something that they don't make you Horse laugh every moment of today sure They do give you this and when they Leave it goes with them and you don't Want them to go it's a it's you know you Can see it's the simplest people have it And the opposite is true as well when You are in the presence of a perfectly Possessed person you know it you don't Wonder about it you know it you know and A lot of people see who are not Acquainted with the phenomenon itself And rather hold on oh we're at on top of The hour stand by we'll be back and to Open the phone lines ah but I want to Set aside one line for an interesting Purpose uh we have with us a very holy Man indeed father melody Martin adviser

To two popes um and you probably heard Him before perhaps This may be the first time a father Martin is an exorcist he has done many Many exorcisms he now directs exorcisms I think it would be useful and Intriguing to open a line a special line For those who are either atheists or Those who practice the dark arts and I Would like to hear your comments and I Would like to hear an interaction yes This invites controversy but that's what We do here and it really is a classic See how can I put this I guess I want to Show a classic delineation between good And evil we have good and I know there's Plenty of evil out there so I'm actually Inviting it on one line I would ask the Audience Cooperation otherwise you can call any Of the other numbers but I am going to Hold one line open for those of you who Claim to be atheists or practice the Dark arts that line is area code 702 Seven two seven one two two two I'll Repeat it again and I would ask Everybody else not in that category to Please now hang up area code 702 seven Two seven one two two two I have a nose Or maybe that's a poor expression I can Safely say that I get many many calls And faxes from atheists I would be Interested in hearing from you many Calls from those who practice the dark

Arts magic whatever you want to call it So again I request the cooperation of The audience in not calling that number In You are one of the above it is area code 702 seven two seven one two two two it Should be intriguing our Father welcome Back thank you we have done this on Previous programs father but if you Would uh describe for the audience Before we get to the phones exactly uh What a real exorcism is like well the Essence of an exorcism and it's really An exorcism by the way let them just as A perimeter remark let me state this Much a lot of people have the idea that Reciting healing prayers over somebody Is an exorcism it's not the essence of Exorcism is a confrontation between the Exorcist and the demon presumably Possessing the person who is being Exercised on it is a personal Confrontation question announcer Question and answer and command question And answer It's not a question of a beautiful Prayer or aspirations all that can be Included one way or the other but the Chief the essence of it is the exorcism Itself be the confrontation and the idea The confrontation is to relieve this Person of the power possessing their Will and the mind therefore their soul Whatever what occurs during this

Transplantation I mean what occurs is First of all there's the the difficulty Of getting the demon to talk away from The phone a little bit father yeah Difficulty is that the Exorcist must First of all achieve is getting into Contact with the demon presumably Possessing this person that's the first Thing and that sometimes takes some time Sometimes no but sometimes it takes a Long time a lot of cajoling a lot of Abuse and a lot of effort and there's Certain rules that the Exorcist must Follow otherwise he's going to fail Number one when that does take place When there is contact really Dialogue then the Agusan exorcist must Find out the name the demon assumes the Demon always assumed the name when he Possesses somebody and how long it's There and why it's there and then get Its consent to depart and that's the Essence of an exorcism to get its Consent to depart suppose it obviously Does not want to depart if it doesn't Ever want to the part you've got to get It its submission its consent is a Difficult word to use it's its admission To being expelled because you see there Is an entire theory and belief behind it All art it is that as long as this Cosmos endures as it is demons have a Certain Liberty a certain freedom and Their Roman what is called progressively

The middle plateau once this cosmos N And there's only heaven then there's Only hell and they go back there Permanently and it's more intense Suffering for them they never want to go Back there they're rather roam around The world you have examples of that in The in the Christian Bible room the the The demons who possess these people that Christ exercised they said please please Put us into these swine remember the Incident of the Gerasenes wine art there The whole it was a hog farm obviously That was the whole flock of hogs and They possessed these poor animals and They all rushed into the sea over a Cliff they didn't want to be sent back To hell to suffer just a flat for they Wants us to roam the woods on the middle Plateau but it's a whole it's a whole Mentality which The Exorcist must have And because he's got to understand who He's up against father question yep the Middle plateau yes arm remote viewers Are psychics People who claim powers Uh-uh and any insight that others do not Have Are they dabbling and moving within and Joining with this middle plateau yeah Dabbling is the we is a mild word They're doing much more than that And it's a very dangerous thing because You can be locked into it and eventually

End up possessed certainly obsessed and It is very tempting one for many people Who are psychic gifts I had an interview With somebody there a few days ago and He wants out of us He originally entered it voluntarily Because it corresponds to his Sensitivity and he felt that he could Get certain wisdom from it now he knows It's slavery and he wants out of us and He will get out of it too So the middle plateau is a very Dangerous thing and people who use a Ouija boards through Transcendental Meditation yes we engage in spiritual Bouncers properly so-called who indulge In that Wicca or indirect cultivation of Demons they are entering willy-nilly the Middle plateau and it's very dangerous It is very dangerous all right let us Let us go to the lines on my special Line you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin good morning good morning Oh you're gonna have to speak up I can Barely hear you where are daily here Okay um well Washington yes and thank You for taking my call I'm a 48 year old Woman and I've I grew up in a couple of Orphanages and I had Christian thrown at Me my entire life and there's one Question that no minister or priest has Ever been able to ever ever been able to Answer for me and this is like feel like I am a atheist and that is that I have a

Daughter that I love her unconditionally and I assume That my ability to love her Unconditionally is my nude to what would Be god of the universe the Creator if There is one and with my daughter I Would never say to her if you don't love Me I'm going to send you to hell and That's what I understand that Christianity is all about and that God Christianity is about that if we don't Love him and obey Him then we're going To be sent to this horrible horrible Place and suffer eternity in the hell's In the belly of fire and that's one I Don't understand that their arms are Malachi I don't understand by November I Get to exactly what you're saying it's It's not as it's not as I'm not saying This about you it's not as who the Belief or as wrath of belief as that It's not an either/or in that horrible Sense if it were then that would be a Most unloving God that will be with you What that call is how I asked well I Know but that was nothing heavenly place Well that's not exactly the picture of Things they did the essence of it would Take a very long time to go through it All but this the essential is this that There are certain things which please Him because they conform to his godly Nature and his godly will and by the way I'm sure you observed most of them the

Law of moral laws the ethical laws Honesty and purity and compassion and Gentleness and you know living a decent Life and loving your neighbor not doing Obvious harm to anybody really except Incidentally or in a fit but not as a Policy not being an evil person and one Sense is that from the Since you're using and the words you're Using that's for he requires as his Practice and if somebody lives like that There is no way they can go to hell There is no way they can be punished Because they are fulfilling years and I've ever heard they that that Fulfilling his will now does this about It that God is infinitely patient Because he's God and he has an Individual knowledge of each person : Being knows my every thought he knows The marrow of my bones and that the Point is that he measures his Grace's to Suit what I need but there is no way on Earth if I practice love of my neighbor And love of myself – I don't mutilate Myself I don't don't Desecrate my body desecrate my soul with Evil on my body with excess and I do my Duty and I live in normally good life There is no way on earth that God would Even dream of punishing me with Hellfire No way at all so but that's that's Really I've cut it down to the Essentials ma'am

Well that's the essentials of it if this God is is love well I hope that helps You obviously it's an answer you've Never received before I've listened to You since 92 and this isn't the first Time I've called and I really appreciate Your program okay well thank you very Much for the call and good luck to you God bless you ma'am our east of the Rockies you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin ah yes I need to speak to Art Bell if I can please uh you are Speaking to art bell with father Malachi Martin I'm speaking soon yes oh this is Great all right well then um what it is Is is I'm pretty scared I'm practicing White magic and everything and oh no I Get it Let you know my story how much time do I Have well we're coming up to a break but You will be obviously a very interesting Call so what I'll do is hold you over Where are you calling from I'm calling from Jacksonville in Florida Jacksonville fart alright I'll tell you What stay right where you are Thank you and we'll do our break and Come back to you all right Back now to Father Malachi Martin and my Caller who claims to be practicing white Wicca caller you're back on the air Hi how's it going my name's Richard Richard okay doing good all right cool Well then um yeah everything that I'm

Fixing to say kind of releve true or Excuse me it kind of goes with Everything that you've been talking About the last few days uh with Bible Codes and so on and so forth was what You were talking about today well Anyways my best way to describe it with With which I think his name was Steve he Was talking about a few days ago well Anyways I'm like Brian I'm like so you Are blabbering so get to the point Please alright okay The best way I can describe it sir would Be echoes alright say say what say where Everything first started out right you Got nothing and then what happened is There's nothing to consciousness that Consciousness is that get you up filling In the morning and it's just being right Out there that's what God is right there He's everything is good and this Greatness creating all right okay as far As Satanist it goes I mean it you can Stretch it out on the line okay on one You got totally just hell and on the Other end you got just heaven and in the Middle you got what y'all were talking About earlier the third plane that That's what you might want to call the Color magic that's what's easy is for Most people to understand is that the World you're in excuse me I said is that The world you're in Yeah I'm what are you talking about man

Alright well I'm talking about what you Said when you came on the air that you Practice white Wicca not pride this just It's not white wicked just alright well Then thank you for the call You're not even consistent with what you First said on the special first time Caller line you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin hello hello hello Oh okay I'm on Oh he's no way–just make my teeth hurt Art I've been a practicing waiter for About thirty years Plus and autumn Martin there sounded so In touch with everything I was wondering If I could ask him a couple of questions Go ahead Oh mmm all right father um Would you say that things have been Going kind of crazy the world says the Catholic Church broke with tradition yes Would it be better if they Church went Back to the old tradition yes but I Think now idea but that's impossible They can't go back unfortunately what Will happen will be some new form any What unfortunately actually unfortunate Isn't you you can see my unregister they It would be better but they can't They've come so far yeah okay because at One time I was a Catholic a matter of Fact with my religion I pull some of my Favorite Saints into it too because as You know with Wicca we encompass a lot Of different religions I know you do I

Know you do Yeah but that's all right yeah provided You honor question oh yes oh yes it's a Strange combination but his most wicked Find a place as comfortable for Themselves I've started a couple of covens and that Was one of the main things that I would Present to the people is for them to Find a place for them that was Comfortable yeah and in Wicker we really Don't have black and white it's just an Easy way to explain what we do yes That's I agree with that but we have to Use it as their where yeah denomination Cramer's you know one thing I've been Finding is there's been a lot of dream Weavers running around Bothering people if why I know at the New Age well those dream weaving is a Very weak form of the darker art yes There is those something less loose There which wasn't having been that Loose – now father what is dream weaving uh Ma'am you explained it in your language Oh well you can probably explain it Easier than I could dream weaving is When you send negative forces to people When they're sleeping you can control a Person better when their defenses are Down And then the defenses of the right you Can cause them great illness if they

Don't sleep properly some people have Gotten very paranoid yeah have you done That to people no sir I have it I've put Up findings and awards to protect some Of people that I'm working with good Good they give them protection but they Lack right that there's no doubt about It man that movie I was going to say It's a lot of these new injuries they're Using this dream weaving I know they are And they don't they don't know what They're dealing with No they don't and they end up in the Ditch as we say figuratively speaking And there's also behind it all to them Though this fact that there has been let Loose upon us some other forces that That that that help dream weaving Anything when evil kind yeah and we were Trying to combat that and that's very Difficult it's very difficult yeah it Comes it comes from not a lot of Insomnia to come for not a lot of Disorder in families and disruptions and Divorces and it comes for a terrific Amount of damage oh yes And I've also noticed there's a lot of In front around lately Yes army and imps what are those uh one Of a better definition minor Devils that Are mischievous yes that the course is Definition I think um yes it's a good Way of putting it there are mischievous Or mischievous as you say they are devil

They belong to the middle Plateau the Present moment as per plane of activity And they can be called poltergeist if You want to call them there they behave Like poltergeist at times there are a Lot of though but I think that's all Part of this Avalanche has been let Loose upon us ah I can't I don't know Why but that's the way things have gone You said it did coincide with the Disruption of the Catholic tradition I Don't know why a wild-card line you're On the air with Father Malachi Martin uh Good morning Wonderful to speak to you again mr. Bell I just listen dear I just tuned in and I Heard mention him to Catholic Church I Wonder if mr. Martin could give more Insight and what is actually going on With the Catholic Church Well provided I don't gamble as you or Whether your failure lies me well you Know I mean I have to be careful because It's one of the few things that my Gentle Lord Jesus condemned was to give Scandal and there are ways where the Giving scandal but if you want to be Want me to be very frank here's what's Happening as far as I'm concerned there Is a worldwide apostasy going on amongst Catholics and it is on the highest Levels and the lowest level mr. bill do You know who I am Ah no not yet nor you know this this

Will give you a clue mr. Martin what do You feel is the Catholic Church's Connection with vampirism Oh what are Other yes You are speaking to somebody who claims To be a vampire Ah mr. bell I'll be sending you some Literature photos and a lot of Information hopefully you can help me Spread the word about what is happening With vampires in this country and in the World right now have you ever spoken With a vampire father yes I have I have There was a school of vampire ology that What is called in Long Island I knew the members of it in the 70s I've Lost track of all of them that school's Been shut down it is moved Really yes it's now somewhere in the Midwest well yeah I know that then there Was another settlement or group in Louisville Kentucky that's thought it's The exact same school yeah yeah it is But I only have passing but the Union When you are where the Catholic Church Is involved in vampirism no I'm not Aware of that then if that is officially Involved in vampers the Catholic Church Of today is that the Catholic Church it Was let's say the way years ago he said The Catholic Church is not the church it Was years ago I think oh that I know That I fully agree with you but that Does wholesale official vampirism I did

Not know a lot of you I'm not even Contesting them a lot of the scandal That is uh plaguing the Catholic Church Today you know dumb children it isn't a Coincidence that this is happening all Over the country and why the church is Paying big money to keep it quiet I know We're paying an offer we paid since 1985 I think the Catholic Church in America Has had to shell out not quite a billion Dollars in out-of-court settlement Wow But of this for child molestation it's More than molestation in many ways and Sorry they're positives the politicians Is a is a general word covering an awful Lot yes a official when you receive the Information I need to find out how to Send it to you all right well understand I'm I'm in hiding Yeah you just listened to my address Father if arm I heard you agreeing with him more than Not with regard to the state of the Church yes all that the cause of that State or something out a billion dollars Short of a billion dollars rather almost A billion and out of court settlement Why why is there so much evil uh that it Requires that kind of money to cover it Well ah you've asked me the $64,000 Question We knew why this plague has descended Upon us in the States just in the United States of America alone we'd be very

Happy because then we could do something About it we don't quite know now by the Way it doesn't involve more than four to Six percent and it's the official figure Of the clergy but the damage is huge and Then the reports we're getting about Europe and Ireland in particular a very Discouraging the same same play which I Call it is the flick of those places Beginning to afflict them but now that It's due to vampirism that's something New in my in my whole rise All right east of the Rockies you're on The air with father melet I'm Martin Hello hello there no I guess I didn't Push the button up that was the Rockies You're on here with Father Malachi Martin hello all right this is definite Albuquerque albuquerque yes sir Yes on QB father Martin it's a has been A pleasure inspiration to hear you on Our show thank you very much for saying That sir I wanted to relate two Experiences to you and know it sort of Like your thoughtfulness yeah One was a number of years ago I was Involved in I was experimenting a little Bit with stamen ISM uh and I had a Rather negative experience I try to Induce the shamanic trance ah and Shortly thereafter a large blue and red Bird with a very long appeared before me About three feet away uh-huh And it's beak started pooling like the

Best I can describe it as the stream of Energy from my chest at which point I Invoked the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and and the bird disappeared and My question on that would be if what Your thoughts on shamanism Were generally and if it is Purported to be a positive endeavor by Those who practice it why I ended up Having this negative confrontation the Flint story that I'd like to comment on The other is that my father passed away About four years ago mm-hmm and the very Painful circumstances after a long Protracted illness yeah and about two Months ago I had a visitation from him Did you see him I didn't see him I was Upstairs and I was asleep at least I Believe I was yeah and I felt myself Moving downstairs and I picked up the Phone because the phone is ringing and It was him and he said is all my father Would have said at the time I said Things sure are different on the other Side and with the very characteristic Oh Something here you know like you would Say yes and it was amazing because I Wanted to ask four million questions About you know why we died in some Formerly conflicts that had arisen from The circumstances of his death and you Said I don't have time to talk but just Be true to yourself be happy with who You are I'll talk again later

All right father uh from that I would Ask you uh do people communicate with People who have passed on do they really Communicate with them or is this a Concoction of their own needs in their Own mind if it were merely a question of Being concoction of their own needs in Their own mind that would be one thing At least it's innocent difficulty is This that our friend here from from Albuquerque is very frank talking to us He endeavor to practice shamanism and Shamanism is an open door to the middle Plateau and that middle plateau is Dominated by spirits not friendly to our Soul and they can deceive us and we can Be hoped without our knowing it and Especially when is the question of Somebody we love like my father or my Mother my sister my brother my friend My wife my husband um I can be deceived And there's only one sure way of Avoiding being hoaxed and that is Submitting it all through a very sharp Rule of discernment which would take a Long time to explain right here and now But as its spiritual discernment because Anything touching the spirit art and This I say also to our friend in Albuquerque anything touching the human Spirit Anything invading my soul I will and Intellect that far my soul have got to Is of prime importance because I'm

Sitting duck for angels and devils and I Must make my choice and I must be Careful what friends I make and I would Advise him to be very careful about Practicing shamanism he had one Experience which was a warning to him And obviously he's protected Otherwise that that bird would have tore His heart out all right uh you're on the Air with Father Malachi Martin good good Morning all right yes sir Good morning you know the man who calls About the vampirism and all that yeah he Called a little while ago yes back in The seventies I used to take a lot of Her lucid genex acid yep you and one Night I was a vampire was in the corner Of the living room up at by the ceiling And hit me like in seconds and ever Since then I've had a form of sexual Obsession dead I mean I've even probably Studied the Bible but father Moloch I'll Know the verse where you're ever Learning but you never come to the Knowledge of God yes it's like I cannot Break away from this I mean I know the Bible inside now no I would advise you To seek out an exorcist because what you Describe is a form of obsession demonic Obsession it's not quite possession Well otherwise you couldn't be talking Like you talk that incident happened Like in a matter of second oh yeah I Could see that thing in the corner by

The ceiling and it hit me and I knew it It hit it's instantaneous it takes just A moment of time and then that other Problem developed and to this day I have That problem I mean I've even prayed to God and said I know you will have you but I can't Until you get rid of that obsession and The only way to get rid of that is by Means of of an exorcist really and if it Really seem so drastic here I mean an Exorcism well it's not drastic in your Case because you're not resisting it It's a parameter into our dark you know Psychologists are all day they know Healing there at all all psychologists Think the cutters will do for you my Friend is this They will make you viable to nervin You'll be able to carry on but they Learn about what they told ya there's no Feeling you are live with yet they don't Heal you only one person can give you And that's the grace of our Lord Jesus And I should seek out or of seek out a Holy priest would that only be a Catholic priest Well I only know Holy Catholic priests I'm sure there are other holy people and Tell me what's going on in my life That's right if I were you I'd do that Ever since that it happened this has Caused major problems I'm sure I'm sure It have other how does how does somebody

Know that this may be a question for After we come back from the break but How does one know that you have found The right kind of priests and you will Know that because when we say the right Kind we must mean somebody who is close To God somebody capable of recognizing This exactly and has the expertise of Dealing with it because you know there's Nothing worse than an ignorance priest Who doesn't know what to do nothing Worse than or or one that cost the Church a lot of money as now yeah Yes sir you know but talking in the Context of good men good stupid men can Do just as much damage inadvertently get A family back down to Manhattan New York And father Malachi Martin father I've Intentionally invited something of the Dark side just I guess as a sort of a Contrast this evening is something Different to do yeah maybe I shouldn't Do it I don't know but uh uh oh I'm done But you know what um there's a lot of it Out there father and a lot of people Think these are coops or crazy people And they're not for example the guy who Called and said he's a vampire he's been Very serious I know he's he's dead Serious we all started talking about oh Yes I take advice here in the art quite Frankly a lot of people father who are Basically good people think that these These realms these people who are into

These things are not real oh they are The unfortunate point is that they are Real difficulty exactly right um and These are the people that when you're Doing your serious work you're working With aren't they that's right all right Uncle Al exactly you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin good morning good Morning thank you for having me sure Where are you I'm in the low desert My name is Debbie okay um dr. malachite I believe in both the dark and light and That they should be together and not Split apart like the Catholics have done And I just wondered in your studies I Study astrology and not the esoteric Kind and at the time of change like the One that would happen just before Jesus Was born there were big floods first Years and about about 10 times as many Years there were droughts and I wondered If in your studies there has been Reference to that because most of the References were lost when the library Was burned at Alexandria there are References though there is a set of men Called the Church Fathers and they live Between Oh between 180 680 taken those as cliche dates and Their their writings are considered to Be very valuable for big for Christianity and they do speak about Such things they speak about such Climactic changes climatological changes

I should say and calamities Affairs Climbs with water and earthquakes and Mainly when the floods and volcanoes They do you're right I'm curious about Something you said ma'am you said you Work with the dark and the light how do You do that well I don't separate it I Think that both are a natural part of Our environment and so an object I'm Really worried about some tendencies With a new age I'm glad people are Trying to get in touch with themselves But I'm sure the doctor knows but a lot Of the people who are learning Channeling from other people who don't Really know anything seem to have more Contact with things that the Catholics Would call Incubus and succubus than They are with had in contact with Anything that would give us valid Information and I just in that vein I Wonder if he's had to cure a number of People who well there are people who say Once you open the door it's really hard To get it shut and I think these people In their innocence and wanting to see Just the good in the light and the happy Aren't looking at what they're doing I Know you're right there is a lot of Innocent mistake there we can end up in A lot of pain I think that if we could Have a long long conversation which we Can't have tonight anyway the when you Say you work with the dark from the

Light you know those are traditional Things within Christianity itself way I Grew up in a Christian household well I Know and by the way there's a balance Beyond the union of dark and light to Which I'm sure you have come to or will Come to when I was a child the people Who worked with the person that was the Missionary in our town who had been to India accuse me of being Bodhisattva so I kind of Look at everything because I'm supposed To be here to look at the whole picture Well the role of boys at size you know Has a I don't know how to put this but It has a parallel within Christianity Itself but it's up fires just wasn't That the John the Baptist yes it's a Question of sacrificing oneself for One's fellow man for one's fellow people There's nothing nothing disruptive or Evil about the Buddhist uh play in my View at all thank you very much must be It must be understood very carefully Well I hope you feel better Well thank you I really appreciate you Letting me talk alright it's been a Pleasure man take care East of the Rockies you're on their with Father Malachi Martin hi hey good Morning art good morning sir where are You this is Lance a fifth time caller From Park Hills Missouri all right I'd Like to ask your quest your guests a

Question sure is it possible for a Person to be a lycanthrope and not be Evil yes it is possible is it just Within the framework of your question I Must say yes it is possible it is Possible in other words can like answer Be be kind of a gift yes it can be and Like everything else and have a good Purpose or an evil purpose father would You get a little bit away from the phone For me I'm sorry Bob that's right I Haven't spoken with a man with this Outlook for quite awhile I got excited Well uh let me understand because I Don't understand what he just said so But would you explain the cantrip it to Art oh why can't you read the definition You'll find most dictionaries is the Delusion of person suffers that they Believe that they're either a wolf or a Werewolf uh-huh that's you I'm not by That definition now doctor you see I Don't know how to describe in my terms I'll do the best you can you tell us What you think you are what you feel Well it's mostly in dreams I don't I Don't believe I don't believe in Werewolves Like the real world or anything yeah but I've had like Anthropy in my dreams and Well that was just a question I came up With always listening to your show I'm Glad you did oh it's not necessarily Evil but it it it would be interesting

To to find out why you have a like Entropic dream that really would do you Want to know caller oh yes if we can Answer that how does how does he find Out father he must pray and him he does This but it can be generational in the Sense that it can come from from factors Which he inherits with his flesh and Bone because accompanying that there's An ancestral influence and that's Something which I can't at this distance I can't perform you know okay just just Make some clear I don't dream of ripping People's throats out or anything I know You don't I tell you to it's mainly Being a wolf with other wolves down the Wilderness type dreams that's right Sometimes if I do take that half state Form those dreams Seems like instead of killing people I'm Saving people's lives like a family Rooms recently of saving people from Fires well that's the good that's the Good version of us which you share That's why I say it can be good and it Can be evil but I'd want to know much More about you sir So you don't you don't hear a lot of of This sort of thing then father know There's a certain quantum I've come Across in in a certain amount of people It's a it's a minority as far as I'm my Experience goes but it's I've heard About it and talked with them but I've

Always had to inquire about their Families as a generational aspect this Which must be thought out Specially if it's as a negative effect When it has a positive effect as it has This pens as this man just said then I Still would inquire about it because I'd Be very curious It's a rare trait I'm learning a lot Tonight west of the Rockies you're on The air with Father Malachi Martin hi Hello oh it's me oh hi yes hi where are You um San Cisco Jen my name is Tatiana And done with first-time caller and it's An honor to speak with both of you Thank you I had a microsoft the father Martin is I needed some advice on how to Respond to my five-year-old daughters Question and namely she came to me and Asked me with the quite a serious and Inquisitive tone and said mom why when I'm alone I feel like there's someone Watching me And additionally before she even asked Me the question I just intuitively knew That she was going to ask me that Specific question and maybe I could Attribute this to the fact that I'm also Quite sensitive and I've had episodes Where I've been intuitive or honest I Think whatever you want to name it and I Also have felt that I have been rod or I Feel someone's watching me in and in Particularly I felt that strongly when

During when my sister had passed away And it was during a traumatic time in my Life and what I did during those times Naturally I just kind of called that to To God you know to Jesus and and I felt That ease now I don't think that my Daughter is experiencing the same thing As I am and when she asked me this Question I didn't want to put words in Her mouth and I was kind of like caught Off guard and I told her to describe to Me what it is that she was feeling was This was this an animal was it a person And to kind of like try to grab for Words and she thought it is well I think It could be my garden angel and that's As well you know your garden enjoy it is There to protect you and it sort of Guide you What do you feel what does it does it Talk to you because no I just feel like I have to run and I'm afraid I have to Run yes that's not necessarily good no No no and then what what has happened I Guess we're going through some traumatic Times there's an assembly yes there's Been an illness with an aunt and also my Brother has just been diagnosed with Cancer and so I guess I thought maybe She's feeling all the stresses of what's Going on But it has been coming in to sleep in my Bed after she you know just have years Old after a long period of time and I

Thought I could tell she's probably Stressed about something and I don't Know if I take this seriously or if the System's work or or could she possibly Be feeling to choose very sensitive and She's extremely bright all right okay Ma'am hold on a moment I don't know what You think God um can we talk yes I have Time we do I would guess father that if this child Is feeling something she feels she has To run from that doesn't sound like a Guardian angel to me no doesn't it Doesn't depend she's frightened but the Only way to approach her in this matter Would be a gator confident yes how would I go about doing that well I think you'd Want closer bodily association with her Like lying there together yes eating Together and then talking about Objective things together and describing Things or if you come across some Flowers and we'll say what you feel About those flowers and get it to come Out like that slowly but surely Then there's any prayers oh yes I would We'll grab like and we go to church and With our prayers I write and hey I'll Tell you I'd like to send you something For that child the chaplet of same Michael But that's their a rather difficult Person one because I've got an address And I don't want you to be broadcasting

Your address over the air why don't we Do it the other way around father and Give her a way to contact you Yes a well then which would be my Address my address for the radio is to 170 66th Street did you see two one Seven years 66th 666 bridge New York New York one zero zero two one And um when you write I want to give you A nickname Teresa Teresa Luiza yes so Say I am the person you called Teresa Okay I know we're talking about okay Great thank you so much I didn't feel so Much at me god bless you take care and Thank you very much for the call repeat Your address good and slowly father Begins about 217 – one second East 62nd Street New York New York one zero zero Two one Good all right first-time caller line You're on the air with father melekhin Martin Oh it's an honor all right thank you Sure father Malachi a years ago in my Family we met a man that was a healer And he did he said he did it he didn't Do the healing but God did and He healed Me so of ulcers so I have been Instantaneously then my mother got Cancer real real bad tumors everywhere Had five operations she was in bed and I Went and she was suffering terrible with Him and I went to her home and called Him what to do how to help her and he

Asked me if I would let him transfer her Pain and to my legs and so she wouldn't Have to suffer so badly well it's my Mother I wanted to help her I loved her And I said yes without thinking I thought I was healthy I thought well It would go right away you know it Wouldn't I wouldn't have to keep it Never thought of that Well it's 15 years and I got the pain my Mother of course died and we'd all be Drunk oh yes yes sir she did she got More tumors after that and they had to Give her morphine and then she passed Away and all right you have really Struck an interesting question we're at The bottom of the hour ma'am so we're Gonna have to go but that's she is she An empath is that is what she said Possible oh yeah oh yeah and then even Her mother passes away and she were like Luckily has the suffering yet about your Father Malachi Martin the young lady who Called or not so young and we not a Contact not well not in the sense that She's still listening I think she gave Us her story she asked to receive that Pain and she has had it now all her life How is that possible to transfer in that Way pain and what can she do well the First comment to make upon it is the Very dangerous thing to do and the man She spoke to not he who transferred the Pain its God but you cannot tempt God

Why would God do why would God do that Because this is an abuse you don't you Don't he was wrong that man is testing It didn't say for a mother anyway Clearly clearly but I don't understand Why you say it is an abuse in other Words this is something she did out of Love I know but it it was misdirected Love misdirected by this particular Healer and if you're not supposed to do That you're supposed to accept from God And heal if you can by other means but Not by my that sort of substitution Offering up of yourself it's not it It's only been condemned by Christianity From the very start because the ancient Healers pre-christian and then the at The same time early raw in early Christianity the Roman and Greek healers Used to practice this sort of healing And substitute healing as we've we call It in the book and it's always been Condemned by Christianity as wrong Just wrong because you you you don't Choose these things it's one thing to Sacrifice your life for somebody else to Save their life they're drowning or They're being bitten by a mad dog or Whatever or killed by somebody cruel and You unit or be killed in our place That's where number one but in the Matter of disease and you dare you're Fiddling with God's providence in a way Which is not not holy not good with the

Energies over condemned in the shooting At me all right now what does she do now Ah but she does they should get the holy Priest a holy man to pray over her and Give her a healing process there's no Question of any demonic influence here It's simply a mistake she made and she Was punished for it she can marry him Awful not but a good priest should teach Her how to merit grace from God in this Matter you see father I don't understand That Um I never said she made a mistake and She was punished for it she took on the Pain of her mother or wish to out of Nothing but pure love and now I know Anna she was punished for it why would Why would a fair fair god I wish I know I see your difficulty it's just that we Find out that that's what happens it's All generally and something that Shouldn't be done okay And I I I'm I've a Christian instinct my Question goes against this and well I Know it's always been condemned it's not The way to go why well the bigger Problem is why God allows other things Like birth a baby from our coke addicted And have AIDS they did nothing except That pause yes you know it's one of These mysteries of evil I don't know out I have no answers for That question I wish I had but I happened all right

What about this one uh father Martin I'm A Catholic respect you greatly but you Said something that was a bit Disquieting an earlier caller identified Him herself as not only someone who Practices Wicca but she said that she Had left the Catholic Church you said That was okay what she was doing was Okay as long as she honored Christ Correct me if I'm wrong or poor or Please clarify what you meant how can it Be okay that she left the true church For a pale imitation well I don't think She left the true church that's the Point What she was saying Seems to me that she was deserting the Organization as such but she honors the Christ and others his mother and praise And is a good person morally she isn't More left the church than I have which Was talking about it the organization Which he found that Horan for some Reason rather and of course is not if She had said to me no I practiced Wicca And my wish of the devil I worship idols Or I wish up this world and no I don't Have any believer or attachment to the Lord Jesus or to as you call him or the Virgin Mary of the angel there will be a Different story but you can't save love Church when you honor these people you Live a moral life because he has some Reason for saying that I know so many

People out who will tell me I happen to Be a Catholic Church's organization its Clergy its bishops its garbage and then I found of a very good people Something that had hit them they were Maltreated or unjustly treated what was Scandalized and what they're still Within the Church of Christ he still Love them they belong to him still they Don't have to be in the organization to Be with him not absolutely they should Be if to son And personal accidents I'd be exit from The formal connection with the Organization they still belong to Christ On my first time call our line you're on The air with the Father Malachi Martin Hi all right Keith for naturally uh-huh Yes sir you're going to speak up good Loud keep get into that phone and yell At us I'm sorry it's not a thon gene Just portable all right go right ahead Let's not try to get through to follow My car many times I have many questions I am an atheist I'm not a non-believer Yes I'm not a bad person I teach my son Right and wrong but how many questions Number one I have a mentally Brother yes who has no understanding of Right and wrong there's no understanding Of God and evil where he worries his Place of immortality where is the place How old is he he right now is about 31 If he viable can he work and not really

Also somebody must take care of it Yes my mother and father take care I Know and when they go somebody else must Take care of him well his place is I Suppose takes the place of that there Are Christ about somebody similarly Afflicted and the gospel he said that Such a person is the best is one example Of the way God let things happen in this World And the people said well is because of His father is mother that he's so Punished he said no no no it's manifest The power of God it's a difficult Difficult thing to accept but he has the Place in the scheme of more of of Salvation okay father I'm also a surgical nurse yes and you Would not believe the horrors we see Coming in with young children they have Been abused I can believe it I mean Actually saw 'url that the father had Taken a child and actually broken his Back Over to me you know how do you explain That I mean well you don't do something Called evil the thing called evil in the World and then evil runs rampant in Certain families and the suffering and The pain and the horrible experiences Dropped on the weak and the helpless if It's only soft always to drive me into The arms of my lord Caesar and God I Know it exists and I want to escape it

And I hope never to indulge in it or Fall into it and I hope to cure people Practicing it but the despair is the Fact of life that's the world there's a Long story behind that A long long cosmic story which you know Probably as well as I could explain it But it's the existence of evil we find Out but I mean you know it's just Somehow you say it's looking out for These children I mean they can't help Themselves they wouldn't do anything to Deserve them they know they did not Deserve it at all all you can do all you Can do is wait you can restore them Physically that's one thing you can do But if like a little child is not broken I'm sure it died yesterday but then at That stage your faith must enter because If when I have come across children like That give you an example if doesn't Shock everybody listening I've had to I Had access to a child who had been Sodomized Good girl but I daddy in any sir well I've seen many yeah and she was just a Year and a half almost two years old but She had been baptized of course um what I do is I associate the sufferings Cresci's method I associate her Sufferings or sufferings of my Lord Jesus who died for all sinners in the Hope that her sufferings can be turned To good use by Christ himself that's the

Only And and I also pray two little babies Like that I have a whole list of them by The way if should I recite everyday sad In itself it's very sad The only thing is that this life is sad In several aspects and we complet that Dominate because we have a glorious Savior and we have a glorious God and That he has allowed evil is one of the Biggest mysteries we have to face like Any other I agree with that yes there One more key question what is it alright If something I'm supposed to actually my Priest in town he could not answer it For me we say that in heaven yeah There's no sorrow there's no sickness no There's only everlasting happiness and Love yes let's say for example take art For example you all know how close he is To his mother how much he loves his Mother I'll tell you so let's yes if the Say he gets to have it yes for some Reason it's just an example his mother Isn't there yes how do you find it how Do you account for that I'm a happy I Can have happiness well if the people Are your lover not around you hmm Well if the happiness in heaven football Doesn't spring from the people around You spring from God and number two I Really would be very surprised about Those money isn't there yeah I know I Really would it is I really mean that

No I understand how it season is in a Year well it's more likely that you'll Be missing me no no no no no we won't be Missing or outside of it we're going to Make sure that you come upstairs with of All but B the point is this when you get To heaven when you were in God's Presence You were absorbed in him and any anybody Or anything not absorbed in him once Through this cosmos has passed away Fades out of your existence They dollar to a memory fades out of Life so everything down here doesn't Count Well it does count because it's down Here that I work out my salvation it Counts oh yes it counts my goodness and That's one of the week if I could say Died Repeat that trumpeting this as Triumphantly or invidiously but one of The biggest differences between the Early Protestants at least and Catholic Through this but as you know lute Offenses will say that you can do Nothing to save yourself we justified by Faith alone as Catholics have always Said no no you marriage you can merit Punishment you can merit heaven and Similarly I must tell you sir that if I Were in your place in the surgical ward I would have I would have a little baby Family of about 3000 already but I would

Have got ties with water or at least Baptized somewhere or other and then I Would have prayed to that their Sufferings would be united with the Sufferings of my Lord Jesus but that way I can save souls well I'm curious about Something called are you advertised Yourself as an atheist when you first Called yes I understand an agnostic I understand somebody who has not been Able to quite make the leap of faith Necessary to be one with God but I don't Understand an atheist that's somebody by Definition who believes there is no such Thing as God is that correct yes sir I Do not believe in God I do not believe In the devil if you don't believe in one You can't believe in the other that's Right You know you know devil wash or just Because you're an 8 year well you know I'm a good person How to treat my son right and wrong by The old saying in Missouri I'm a ShowMe Person yeah and I did I just can't cry Quite grasp the concept of faith you Know I I just can't quite grasp it it's Like you know the old coin trick behind The year where say where to go I've got It you know I don't believe in magic I Don't believe in faith I wish I could I Mean I am envious of people who believe In everlasting life who you something Yes sir yeah I tell you something we

Said it to somebody earlier who is on With out of myself if I would like to Love you it's the beginning of love And if I would like to believe if the Beginning of belief because otherwise You'd say I don't give a damn about it Just and move on saying yes sir so There's there's something there and look I don't know your personal life and Probably God will never give us the Chance of of consorting with and Redeeming each other to each other but He has a plan for you because you're a Good man yes sir And you're doing good duty and he will Reveal himself to you in his own way it Won't be probably the way he would be Supplied bail or to me or to our wife or Us another whatever it is but you have Found God already you're not calling him God and I'll be praying for you And thank him alright thank you very Much for the call um so even somebody Who would say he is an atheist is not Lost oh no oh no not like that now now The soul is too valuable now the only Person persons that seem to me to be Large I started the fact it seems to me Art is the perfectly possessed because That's a total renunciation but a total Renunciation of formal I mean it's done Deliberately what about a devil Worshiper well if he really worships the Devil he's possessed perfectly possessed

Even worshiped the devil really worship Him as the Prince everything for you I Thought of a I thought of as I listened To you described a perfectly possessed Person as someone who would not so Actively be engaged in worship of the Devils specifically but might have cut a Deal well once I cut a deal as an act of Worship implied and usually take a place Alright usually takes place east of the Rockies around the air with father melet I'm Martin hello hello how are you today Art alright where are you I'm in Austin Texas yes sir And I believe it was UART first of all That was asking why there was such a big Change in the Catholic Church I was just Going to suggest that if you think about It there's probably no other religion Anywhere that's quite as organized as That so if you were wanting to weaken Something that'd be a good place to hit First wouldn't it this is a good He's quite a lot and for the father There I wondered as he encountered any Things that are left from before there Were I guess you'd have to say heaven in Hell were separate I don't we don't Understand the question fully please Think things that were around before There was a world before them of the World Yeah well the the Lucifer and the Satan And the other devils that we deal with

Today existed before over the world Mmm-hmm anything besides them yes yes a Whole lot of stuff for which we have no Human name oh now there's an answer I Did not expect yep it's very hot there's Known there's no name we have known Human names because we have no physical Images we can have human knowledge of it It's it very hard to explain this and it It it it does belong to the dimensional Area of life but not quite the Tri-dimensional area that we know see if If it doesn't if it doesn't bore you too Much here's the idea that the universe As we have it today is a reconstructed Universe oh look this is a I'm going to Ask both of you to hold on and we'll Pick up on this after the top of the Hour okay oh this is too good to let go So can everybody hold on Oh certainly Alright good both of you then back now – father Malachi Martin in Manhattan Father how are you holding up fine could Not be better not all right this was one Of the most interesting questions or Answers to a question I've heard caller Are you there if I am alright the Question was what was on earth if Anything before men father you said that Satan and his disciples were here but You said there were others as well yes The I take it out that the phrase you Use just now on earth is just refers to The tri-dimensional existence that we

Know yes sir a census Yes sir okay now the the bottom what Impedes our minds understanding the Answer to Daniels question Daniel from Austin's question is the fact that our Minds and our education has been geared As it were programmed on the idea of Evolution Darwin's evolution the Darwinian idea of evolution and if of Course it's a mythical idea and there Has nothing to do with reality and Doesn't explain reality but it does it's In our minds and it's blocked our Intelligence if you read and I may seem To be rambling out but I'm not really if You read the first twelve chapters of Genesis particularly the first six or Seven of them you will find that Interlaced With names and supposedly historical References there is there are there are Phrases and sentences which suppose the Existence of beings for which we have no Names the call of sons of men and sons Of God Bonello him as the Collison in Hebrew And the daughters of men etc and the Giants that lived in those days when Oldest and the old novice writer the old Writers composing putting this Bible Together in the ninth century BC from The records they had were doing their Best to make a coherent statement and All they could do was gather testimony

Be what I was referring to was this that It would seem it would take a long time To explain it though it would seem that The universe as we know it today you and I and Daniel and the rest of us is a Reconstruction of a universe that was Almost destroyed by the first phase of God's creation namely the angelic world And the very form of our bodies they Form of our bodies is an ad-hoc Restoration by God and we won't have This sort of a body when we're in heaven We will have our bodies but not this Sort of a body now the reconstruction Implies that the revolt of Lucifer and The angels that went with him the Bible Says one-third but you know the Bible's Numbers are just numerically interesting He says that they revolted and they Almost destroyed the first handiwork of God and there was a restoration in view Of the coming of Christ later on much Later on now what existed before that Were destroyed by this terrible war this Terrible revolt The first creatures that came from God's Hands we call angels angel itself is a It's an ad-hoc name as we say but There's nothing specific about it at all And is very hard to be specific about an Angel for anyway The beings that existed at the forum They took we have no human words for it Those chapters of Genesis the early

Chapters they try to fix names like the Sons of God the panel of women and Bernier Hardeman the daughters of men And the sons of God and the Giants Cetera They're all top names they also were at A loss because they we would not Recognize them as human in our sense of The word because what is human for us is Something with legs and arms in the Belly and genitals and the edge on arms And anything from the birth canal of a Woman but then what we're left with and Where we can track it but it's a Difficult in a long tracking process is This that there is this middle plateau Which is the remnant of the old original Creation created material cosmos and That on that plateau Lucifer and his Crowd still function and will until the Last day of this cosmos when it's all Blown away by the breath of Christ's Mouth and only heaven and hell exist I Thought may not be much of an Explanation but at least just start it's The first level of an expression or Explanation of what I meant he'll be our Course I was wondering if you had very Much problem dealing with those type of Entities that are leftovers if I stay With my protection no if I step Outside my protection yes I have what Can be literally called a hell of an Amount of trouble not kidding our

Wildcard line you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin hello good morning Good morning where are you sir my name Is James I'm from El Paso Texas El Paso Yes sir um I myself have been practicing Wicca for a number of years yes in Growing up I was around many people who Had I guess in one way or another Stepped into the occult you know my Mother was into astrology my father was Part of the Rosicrucians back in the 70s Yes and my wife was featured in a book Called something in the blood was about Vampiric lifestyles and in dealing with All that I found all down the market you Know I read it quite a bit and I found a Void in books that deal with occult Crime mmm and so I am putting together a Manuscript on a book and I have Researched occult crimes uh quite Exhaustingly and I have a question for You Father And I found that many of the people who Do commit these horrid crimes were Tormented as children you know we're Probably picked on in school our abusive Parent that's right you're right there Do you feel that perhaps in your opinion The devil or demons have been pushing at Them since they were children or is this Something that the parents have pushed On in the heavens and we found an Opening to grasp the soul of these People the the analysis the only

Analysis for the moment that that Satisfies me satisfies what I have found Anyways as follows and he if I if you Abuse a child The child can take it one way or another Now supposing the child is a four five Something like that or even six but Anyway in that young age out of infancy But not quite in boyhood or you turd um If they take it badly they can fall Under the influence of the demon if they Take it well if they can they don't and What what was the deciding factor their Free will and that that's where the There's an initial act of will they I Think that everybody who comes into Existence in this world sheer infancy is One thing where you simply your mother Is your world after breasts or Everything for you and you just thought But once you start getting any knowledge In the appreciation of the world outside You as outside you becomes the moment Some stark personal moment all by Yourself when you make a decision and I Think you make a decision between light And darkness there's a man called John Paul Victor a German writer he's dead Now he said that he was born on the Black Forest his father was a woodcutter And they lived in a small Hut and they They they there was a pile of manure Outside their door always because his Father had horses to drag the lumber and

Um he went out one morning when he was Two and a half three about two and a Half three years and he stood and Climbed on top of the manure just to Look out Chris was using him to climb And he heard the crowing he's for The first rays of sunlight over the tops Of the pine trees and he heard himself Say to himself it's benign II I am and I I am I myself AM me that sort of a Moment of choice well I think that one To exercise free will so if I held it For the receiver badly art I was allowed To talk to you about that yeah sorry About that let the I just corrected when I get excited the Point is that you can make a choice at That early age which puts you within the Realm of the demon or you can make a Choice and put you in the realm of the Angels and why you make that choice I do Not know I do not know the factors I do Not know I think freewill is the most Extraordinary gift and the most Dangerous gift we have do you feel that It is easier for the demons or however You choose to embody them to influence Children who have this abuse life yes I Think it is because no matter how lovely A child is no matter how pure is born Matter how unsullied its mind and will Are it Patil has what Christians call Original sin that is the lack of grace And once tempted to hit back and

Somebody hurting you really tempted Russo puts you within the realm of the Demon but it's a it's it's a very it's It's more problematic than the latency Period which is problematic in itself That's pearly period between birth after Insolvent birth and then early infancy It hasn't been studied by churchmen Intelligently and it must be finely Studied one more quick question father How does the Catholic Church deal with a Lot of the crimes going on out there I've noticed even you know with my wife She gets you know pen pals that write to Her through the book and there's quite a Many children out there falling into the Fantasy vampire you know days there yeah The difficulties a day in America my Friend it's terribly hard to say how the Church should behave or do used to Behave because belief in the Devil beliefs and positive evil has Fallen through the roof in the Catholic Church today amongst the clergy and a Lot of Bishops simply don't believe in The devil don't believe in positive evil And who believes good according to them And there's no such thing as evil really Devil no Devils no hell no God is hell No it's too good and it's a goody-goody Theology this often this father has got To be the fifth time tonight I've heard Vampirism mentioned yes I know I know I Know because it is a one spreading evil

It is still spreading it's a new thing And it's part of the lust for blood and There is a vampirism as it is practiced Today is the means of worship of Satan When it's really practiced um all right Our blood murder murder yes uh with Malice and forethought yeah mortal sin Yes Yes sadly certainly arm when the state Any state execute somebody for the crime Of murder yes What is that well I don't know what that Motives are it all depends what their Motivation is I know that if I were to Approve of capital punishment for a Person who is an established murderer or Murderers that there is the question of Justice I take your life deliberately Maliciously knowingly I must restitute Just as if I steal a hundred dollars of Yours the judges going say to me give Him back his hundred dollars and I had a Fine to it which given back is really Must make restitution alright father We're going to pick up on this we'll be Right back father are you there yes Ma'am All right good um well then if murder is A mortal sin then when the state takes a Life it is something else Yes it is because the motivation the Intention is what makes the difference And the state has felt it is empowered To inflict this loss of life as a

Punishment for an unjust action on my Part if I am the person as to the Justification of that that's something Else art which has engaged a long debate For a long time about various things What to do about it if I do take Somebody's life Shouldn't I be deprived of my life this Is the arguments of the people in charge In favor of capital punishment yes the Others say no no no the best punishment Is life without parole inclusion but the Others respond no I'm sorry you still Are alive you don't develop to be alive You've killed You've replied somebody of their life And the debate goes on all right um what So tom call us toll-free at You know and it's basic Catholic Doctrine there's no doubt about that What difference it will make it depends On who practices and if it is practiced If it's putting pressure as a deputy Program there is a different program Involved in in her writings and the Writings are honored by everybody titles Of bishops and priests and nuns and People I've heard about I don't know What the effect of it is going to be Pardon me I've already called that Called a guidebook for the future church Yes that's a difficult thing to it just Call that by a lot of people but it is

She doesn't face like we're not quite Formally the problem that we have today Presumably those will be the problems of Tomorrow The main problem being the total Disintegration of the organization the The Pope priest nun diocese that Structure is dictating is obsolescing And is not reviving it's the the Structure of the church is is up for Grabs and she doesn't touch on that she Does talk about the superiors of the Church and she just talked about the Call to holiness and the reasons for Striving for holiness and the rules for It but precise difficulty we're passing Through she doesn't deal with the true That she lived on the Eucharist for 60-some years yeah yes this without a Meaning food yes this was verified but She's not the first one and so we use of Common source with the same thing the Novice certify that because they didn't Believe us and they the isolated her and She lived right through it all with the Same food only just toast there's no Spirit hood so Louis bacopa But that it's not the first time in History and won't be the last Yes all right thank you Father We're very inspiring yes all right thank You very much color and take care this Is the end of side one please leave the Kiss

Exactly where it is good morning Gentlemen Morning I had a couple questions for her Father Malachi the first one is I'm a Christian and then but I just I love art Bell ha ha and I we shared that common Love know and so many people think that That a common victory to one another Like I'm not saying I'm out of so much Large philosophies or just like mine Like I'm not saying there are aliens I Haven't seen any I I know I've seen a Couple of something's now but uh I Haven't even been that lucky but I still Hold open the possibility that they're There and why is that contradictory with Christianity by so many people's Standards do you have any idea I knew Better permanent that question well I I Can formulate it in other words why is It a so contradictory to Christian Theology that there may be others I mean Here we're discovering some form of life Microbial albeit at Mars yet other maybe Life on Jupiter life is beginning to Look to be very common not not uncommon And yet the concept is rejected by Fundamentalist Christians well they Shouldn't reject it I don't need to reject any factual Evidence in our cosmos they should not Reject it and I don't think my church Officially is guilty of that in fact They seem to be leaning the other way

Really too much in certain areas but no I Nobody should reject any sign of life Yeah I agree with you I want them I'm Keeping a call me Missouri – I'm sorry I Forgot ah but my other question is uh Our Malachi ah I haven't recently been Doing this Bible study that a thumbs up With the Catholic Church as being the Antichrist yet Oh and I'm sure you've heard these Question one by First introduction to Donna Missouri Welcome somebody told me that the Pope Was the red lady of the Mediterranean That were plotting the downfall of all The nations well there's there's a bunch Of things to think about other than that For one for just a couple of simple fast Thing that said changing from the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday is Like a big one that just really jumps Out at me and the changing of the fourth Commandment from remember the Seventh-day Sabbath day to just remember The sense advante are you a seventh-day Adventist I went to the church a couple Of times and I kind of liked it it's Appealing but it is appealing but I'll Tell you what happened to me as I had a Dream one night that the preacher came To my house and was a going to talk to Me in the wife and son he said pardon me While I go in the other room and get

Ready when he come back he had this Thing around his neck and that was all He had on Oboi he was nude been injured and it was Just in a dream But I was also just studying some of Daniels dreams and interpretations and I Was like man is God trying to tell me Something cuz I never went back but Recently I thought maybe God was telling Me everything you see with this guy's Everything you get you know that he's Not hiding nothing and some will go back Again Isaiah press the top we give you Direction there's no doubt about that Yep I sure appreciate it and on aren't You have a great show thank you my Friend take care father I have a Question for you huh arm it concerns the Vatican's intense almost obsessive Interest with astronomy yes in Arizona Uh the Vatican despite environmental Obstacles that would not normally be Overcome by anybody else in injunction With the University of Arizona muscled Its way onto Mount Graham and and Constructed an observatory and can you Enlighten me at all as to why they have Such an obsessive interest in astronomy Yes I can In general terms odd the reason is this They've always had this by the way They've always had an observatory not Always if they from about the 9th

Century AD but there's intense interest Now in astronomy because of the contents Of some of the secret revelations they Claim were made in this century About the near future involving stars Involving astronomical data it's about a General statement as I be allowed make Oh I think I can read that one quite Well I'll shake I'm sure you cannot but There definitely is an interest on Because they're looking for the evidence They need to decide that certain things Must be done I understand and I Appreciate the answer to wildcard line You're on the air with father of Malachi Martin hello hi my name is Nick I'm in Albuquerque I need uh I had a question For our own archive and I've always been Really intrigued with with this passage In Genesis its Genesis 6:4 where they Make reference to the to the no phillium Yet and in the Bible it says that they They took notice of the daughters of the Earth that's why and that they then Proceeded to have intercourse in fact And then they gave birth to the time two Giants and you know that I was wondering Exactly who the William are and also if I imagine their Their entities or or refers to them as a True sons of God and the baby Nick t we touched on this in an earlier Hour with another caller yeah and you Probably heard that part of it you it's

Um again it's the analysis of that Really happened in the beginning in the Beginning and as I said to art and the Caller then we have no names you see Look when you and I want to subscribe Trumping even when we talk about they The men from Mars or green men landing In Roswell New Mexico in 1947 We always configure them with legs and Arms and nose and eyes some sort of body Like ours you know right we will scream Lee limited in what we can imagine Because we have either got men human Beings or we've got animals Roy but the Difficulty is that there does seem to be Suggestive evidence that before the Human race people to disco this Particular patch of the cosmos and there Were other beings not human No but we we have no faces we have no With no way of describing their Appearance we have no names problem Because we we can't configure them Physically tournament yeah well you know A difficult humanity liam is worthy all The mysterious and the Bnei love him the Fund of God all day very shadowy figures And that's in those two first chapters Of Genesis right well you know God Populated this planet with humans is There the possibility that Satan or Lucifer populated other planets with With their concept and And could they possibly be the the

Aliens who were encountering at this Time yes be the any information we have Which is very sparse anyway well any Evidence we have make about this Restrict living beings to the galaxy and This particular planet in this galaxy Issue so so long I believe that but that Doesn't mean that that's complete but of All we know and then I forgot the being We think we're now the UFOs as we call Them and I'm not saying that derisive Li Like the green men from Mars or Something without saying but they I Think that so far the evidence is that It it's demonic in origin I see not be There's one element which is important It is that the function of the original Angels created like that there were the First wave of creation it was to serve And to govern the cosmos of man were but That went awry so so basically the new Phillium are the fallen angels of ours Of Lucifer oh yeah we don't call Omega I Can say that I would actually give you An office that we don't know all right Let me try and phrase it this way father If our Mount Graham were to suddenly Detect something um some sort of ship Some sort of something headed toward Earth ah that was unambiguously a craft Not of Earth yeah they would assume not Automatically then to be demonic huh yes Although yes it's very hot yeah that's a Hard question to answer out it really is

I'd be going beyond the evidence if I Said yes Know that it's a difficult thing to Answer it's a very difficult thing to Answer I don't know what I must confess You I don't know I wish I did by doubt Maybe it's one of those things that it Is better not to know Well the moment again the only wood we Have on it is the take care of things on This earth don't worry about what heaven Happens on other planets but III it's Amazing isn't it let's all reflect on a For a moment it's amazing how the Interest this little machine on the Martian landscape of aroused yes it's Amazing Oh it's only a little machine and four Wheels and we're just talking about rock Here though yes but the idea of the Whole thing had fascinated people who Were listening to the broadcast and Seeing that mosaic of pictures I don't Know what to say about all them to Imagine that at one time Mars was like Waterworld then there was a planet-wide Flood and that it was covered with water That's a lot to imagine father It is a lot where there was water Whether is water generally there is life On can breathe a half billion years ago And now it's a dried fine up desert of Employment young yep it's very very Funny but odd

I'm a sort of show my colors in one Sense we do not know yet and probably we Have to wait until the Eternity to find Out we do not know the extent of the Damage done by the revolt against God we Don't know that they extend to that Damage maybe we're looking at evidence I Mom come from SPECT we are but I have no Grounds for proving it I did father We've done it again we're at the end of The program I know it's ridiculous Thought it goes like one hour I know foosh